Forgiveness


Connie
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This video suggests that there are different levels of forgiveness that one can give based on the level of remorse expressed by the person in need of forgiveness. My question is for any Christian, LDS or otherwise. Do you think the ideas about forgiveness in this video are compatible with the gospel of Jesus Christ and what He taught about forgiveness? Why or why not?

 

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I think what the Lord taught about Forgiveness was in regards to the idea of what this video calls Exoneration...or forgive and forget.  It was not about forgive but don't forget, or do not forget and hold it against them but don't let it affect your emotions or actions anymore...it as about forgiving and wiping the slate clean. 

There IS a little more than that, in my opinion, which they do not cover in the video and which I do not think they really think about.  They would probably say this falls under their idea of forbearance, but when truly done, you DO wipe the slate as clean as possible and do not hold it against the person in the future.  HOWEVER...you can still be wise in your judgement.  For example, a salesman that comes to your door selling beachfront in Kansas that you know is on government land is not someone you would trust and not someone you would probably something from.  This has NOTHING to do with ever having seen that salesman before (you haven't) or him having caused anything against you (he has not), but more that you are wary of things and actions that may not be honest or truthful.

Another more real example from my life.  I had a friend that has repeatedly stolen from me.  One of the first items were some valuable historical antiques (at least to me) that they took.  That was offensive, but I forgave them.  Later, I had some military materials (medals, uniforms, etc) that I was storing but didn't necessarily have in my own home  at the time (some of it had disturbing memories or I simply didn't want to devote the room to it at that time...though much of it was still precious to me).  They simply took the items, and as I found out, sold some of it (for prices that surprise me...some of it I assume to those who were trying to steal valor or other things...which also rather disturbed me).  Once again, I forgave them and really, I don't care anymore.  It is what it is.  It is as if it did not occur between us to that degree.  Finally, they went and stole some of my guns from my house.  That also was somewhat disappointing...but once again, I have forgiven them. 

You may ask, why do I keep forgiving them in these instances...obviously because I wipe the slate clean it continues to allow them opportunies to steal more from me.  This is true, however I see it more as times when they have disappointed me in their failure to improve themselves rather than remain upset about it.  I have accepted them for who they are.  It is in their nature to do as they do.  It means that I realize it is their nature and I TRY to be more careful with my stuff around them and what I do with it, but I ALSO realize that it is who they are and forgive them.  It is my fault for being careless when I know their nature...NOT their fault necessarily for falling to the nature of which they are so inclined to listen to.  Thus, I can forgive them and have no grudges or hold anything against them.  To me, I keep them as a friend...and do not hold it against them.  Rather, it is my own failings for the most part that allowed them the situation to steal.  I KNEW their nature and should have guarded more closely against it, but I should not hold it against them for falling to their nature when I knew what it was.  Instead, I should realize my own part in allowing them to do as they did.

They are now in prison and I try to visit them at least once or twice a year (they live across the country).  I still am their friend (whether they realize it or not) and try to help them in whatever way I can.  If they were released it is possible I might even host them in my home if it was absolutely necessary to help them get back on their feet.  I would hope that they have learned from their experiences, but it is possible that their nature would take over again and if I am not more careful, I would once again find myself missing valuable items.

So, I think there is a way to forgive completely but at the same time use wisdom in interactions with someone.  You can realize what a persons nature is, and what they are likely to do, and act in accordance with that, while at the same time forgiving them of the offenses or actions they took against you in the past and not holding it against them.

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The Lord's tells us the following

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D&C 64

10 I, the Lord, will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you it is required to forgive all men.

 

Since we commonly think the Lord means what the video called Exoneration.  This sound very hard but then in the very next verse he gives more detail on how we are to forgive by saying

Quote

11 And ye ought to say in your hearts—let God judge between me and thee, and reward thee according to thy deeds.

Now when I read that verse... that does not sound like an Exoneration or Forbearance (As the video described the terms) to me.  That sounds like what they called Release to me.  Let God deal with it does not mean the slate has been wiped clean, but rather that you have passed the slate to God to do whatever he wants to with it.

That would be my take on it.  That would and is how I would teach some one that for whatever reason was struggling to Forgive.  So while there are some details one could quibble about I generally do not thing the ideas in the video is out of line.

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On 12/19/2020 at 10:48 AM, Connie said:

Thank you, both! Would anyone else like to offer their opinion on this video? It's not too long, just under 6 minutes.

I agree with @estradling75 - that the closest thing to divine forgiveness is release.  When we forgive someone we are not going back to square one nor are we trying to subvert justice.  In essence we are letting go (releasing) ourselves from the bitterness and loss of love generated by offenses.  Mercy and justice do not rob each other but through forgiveness (release) are extended as the means of ending the effects of such things that come from offences to one's self.   Even with small children - intelligent adults, out of love, will discipline children (others) and not just ignore (forbear or exonerate) their harmful actions.

 

The Traveler

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On 12/19/2020 at 11:48 AM, Connie said:

Thank you, both! Would anyone else like to offer their opinion on this video? It's not too long, just under 6 minutes.

It seemed pretty self-explanatory.  And it is so common sensical, I don't think anyone will disagree with it.

I tend to think that too many get stuck on the idea that "if it isn't exoneration, then it isn't forgiveness."  But the conditions required for exoneration provided in the video are something that are to be considered.

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I have thought on this concerning how Christ dealt with sin.   I could be convinced contrary but I believe that Jesus would only forbear and exonerate only when one repented.  That through love and honor of individual right to exercise agency; releases as an example to us all to end the cycle of revenge - that destroys love and fosters hatred. 

 

The Traveler

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On 12/28/2020 at 9:05 AM, Traveler said:

I have thought on this concerning how Christ dealt with sin.   I could be convinced contrary but I believe that Jesus would only forbear and exonerate only when one repented.  That through love and honor of individual right to exercise agency; releases as an example to us all to end the cycle of revenge - that destroys love and fosters hatred. 

 

The Traveler

That is a good point!

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The thing about these types of videos I would love to see the scriptures they attach to their examples and meanings. Release appears to have connection to Matthew 11: 29-30 where the Lord asks us to "Take [his] yoke upon [us]."

In scripture we do not see any breakdown of the Christlike attribute for forgiveness, and I am not sure we can fully "Release" something to the Lord until we have forgiven. One might consider the ideas presented as a line-upon-line notion. The Lord overtime moves us from feeling anger to feeling his eternal/infinite love through "Release." Release then is that we understand the Lord's love (most sweet) is the most important element to our happiness here and eternally.

However, it appears though the Lord would have us begin with the stage of "Release" whether or not those who have hurt us have asked for our forgiveness (which appears to be what is suggested near the end of the instruction). In that sense, if a person does come to ask for forgiveness (Exoneration or Forbearance) it really doesn't matter because we have already forgiven -- we have taken his yoke upon us.

Forbearance and Exoneration seem to be interwoven. Without the trait of forbearance could we really get to the point for exonerating or even releasing the pain, anger, or hurt? I remember President Hinckley sharing the story of the woman who appeared to apply all three in one go. She was put through an horrific ordeal as a result of teenagers "Just wanting to have fun."

The concept of exoneration, which we really don't have the ability to "restore" a relation to its original state of innocence (so I think that is incorrect). To use a hard example (for most women, maybe some could), is fully exonerating their rapist. I'm not sure, in this life, many (if not all) wouldn't be able to fully restore the relationship back to its original state of innocence.

Yet with God, we find that he can fully exonerate us, "Every spirit of man was innocent in the beginning; and God having redeemed man from the fall, men became again, in their infant state, innocent before God."

Edited by Anddenex
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10 hours ago, Anddenex said:

The thing about these types of videos I would love to see the scriptures they attach to their examples and meanings. Release appears to have connection to Matthew 11: 29-30 where the Lord asks us to "Take [his] yoke upon [us]."

In scripture we do not see any breakdown of the Christlike attribute for forgiveness, and I am not sure we can fully "Release" something to the Lord until we have forgiven. One might consider the ideas presented as a line-upon-line notion. The Lord overtime moves us from feeling anger to feeling his eternal/infinite love through "Release." Release then is that we understand the Lord's love (most sweet) is the most important element to our happiness here and eternally.

However, it appears though the Lord would have us begin with the stage of "Release" whether or not those who have hurt us have asked for our forgiveness (which appears to be what is suggested near the end of the instruction). In that sense, if a person does come to ask for forgiveness (Exoneration or Forbearance) it really doesn't matter because we have already forgiven -- we have taken his yoke upon us.

Forbearance and Exoneration seem to be interwoven. Without the trait of forbearance could we really get to the point for exonerating or even releasing the pain, anger, or hurt? I remember President Hinckley sharing the story of the woman who appeared to apply all three in one go. She was put through an horrific ordeal as a result of teenagers "Just wanting to have fun."

The concept of exoneration, which we really don't have the ability to "restore" a relation to its original state of innocence (so I think that is incorrect). To use a hard example (for most women, maybe some could), is fully exonerating their rapist. I'm not sure, in this life, many (if not all) wouldn't be able to fully restore the relationship back to its original state of innocence.

Yet with God, we find that he can fully exonerate us, "Every spirit of man was innocent in the beginning; and God having redeemed man from the fall, men became again, in their infant state, innocent before God."

I believe that the divine key is agency.  The scriptures tell us that G-d "cannot" allow even the least degree of sin"  Thus it is my understanding that through the atonement of Christ that sin is overcome and justice has no claim.  However, those that do not repent fail to release themselves - or others from transgressions.  And so mercy has no place in them such that they do not exonerate themselves or forbear and release others.  In truth it appears that others cannot exonerate us - they can forbear and release but to be exonerated we must repent and turn from our sins - G-d cannot change us without our repentance.

It seems logical that to have or exercise mercy we must first release.  And so it appears to me that the final judgement is also a forbearance type with a caveat that a place is prepared such that those that do not repent in order to release themselves may have place where they can exercise their agency and by choice keep hold of a particular sin or sins.

 

The Traveler

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