pam

I have been deceived

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I learned today that I have been deceived all of my life.  Did you know that nature has nothing to do with God?  Yeah neither did I.  

There is a conversation going on on the Third Hour Community facebook group regarding hymn #37.  Someone is all bent out of shape over it.  

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9 minutes ago, pam said:

Someone is all bent out of shape over it.  

They appear to be triggered by the "Indian band" part?
Wonder how they feel about the state name "Utah"?
How about them Utah Utes... double whammy :)

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I've never heard it sung in the congregations I've attended. My mum used to sometimes play it as part of the prelude music when I was a kid and now I sometimes play it as part of the prelude music at funerals, it seems to fit in quite well with the mood of a funeral. I also occasionally as prelude music before Sacrament meeting as well. This is the favourite hymn of an elderly sister in our ward and she thanks me every time I play it. 

 

2001-01-0370-the-wintry-day-descending-to-its-close-vocal-and-instrumental-192k-eng.mp3

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1 hour ago, Fether said:

I’m confused... what is the issue that is being discussed?

She doesn't think that song should be in the hymnbook because it's not about God and it has offensive wording such as bands of Indians.  

What gets me is she also talks about patriotic songs being in the hymnbook.  I can understand that one with an international church.  But she says she knows how to separate patriotism from faith.  But this country was founded on faith and God.  

But I also understand that hymnbooks in other countries don't have the patriotic songs like we have.  I'm not 100% sure if that is true.

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3 hours ago, pam said:

There is a conversation going on on the Third Hour Community facebook group regarding hymn #37.  Someone is all bent out of shape over it.  

Link?  The only post I can find there with more than 7 comments, is the "Happy Birthday Elder Gong" thread...

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1 minute ago, NeuroTypical said:

Link?  The only post I can find there with more than 7 comments, is the "Happy Birthday Elder Gong" thread...

Not sure how to link it from a group page.

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https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/music/library/hymns/the-wintry-day-descending-to-its-close?lang=eng

I guess people are mad about this?:

Quote

4. The wilderness, that naught before would yield,
Is now become a fertile, fruitful field.
Where roamed at will the fearless Indian band,
The templed cities of the Saints now stand.
And sweet religion in its purity
Invites all men to its security.
There is my home, the spot I love so well,
Whose worth and beauty pen nor tongue can tell.

 

Huh.  Never heard it before.  It wasn't in the 1919 first edition hymnbook.  

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36 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

Ever since I've read Psalms I've felt that our hymnal is woefully lacking songs about raining vengeance on our enemies.

“The saint shall rejoice when they seeth the vengeance, the heathen is locked with his sentence. 
 

We’ll sing and we’ll shout with the armies of heaven the vengeance, the vengeance, the vengeance is mine!”

 

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2 hours ago, pam said:

She doesn't think that song should be in the hymnbook because it's not about God and it has offensive wording such as bands of Indians.  What gets me is she also talks about patriotic songs being in the hymnbook.

The social justice warriors cannot ever get enough.  I think they invent problems because they have very few or none in their life.

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9 hours ago, pam said:

She doesn't think that song should be in the hymnbook because it's not about God and it has offensive wording such as bands of Indians.  

What gets me is she also talks about patriotic songs being in the hymnbook.  I can understand that one with an international church.  But she says she knows how to separate patriotism from faith.  But this country was founded on faith and God.  

But I also understand that hymnbooks in other countries don't have the patriotic songs like we have.  I'm not 100% sure if that is true.

Well, she may or may not get her wish in a little while.  A new Hymnbook is being composed, and I suspect that some of the less popular hymns may be removed while other hymns not previously found in the hymnbook may be added.

I do not know which ones will be found or not found in the new Hymnbook, but there will be those thrilled and those disappointed if they have specific favorite hymns that do or do not make it into the new one.

Overall, it's a single hymn.

I didn't get a chance to read that posting on facebook, when I clicked the link it appeared to have been deleted already, but I think Nature is intimately connected to the divine, for afterall, it has it's creator as do we, and how we align with the commandments our creator gives will help us in regards to our joy and happiness we may experience now and in the future.

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23 minutes ago, Midwest LDS said:

I can honestly say I've never heard that hymn in my entire life. It seems rather Utah centric so maybe that's why. Regardless there are just so many other things worth being offended by than a single rarely sung hymn.

As someone who grew up on Utah, the only place this song was ever song was in a ward in Kentucky who made it a point to sing through every hymn in a year.

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11 hours ago, Still_Small_Voice said:

The social justice warriors cannot ever get enough.  I think they invent problems because they have very few or none in their life.

There are also a surprising number of Church members who seem to have some sort of vendetta against Utah.

I get that modern Utah life is not everyone’s cup of tea, and that’s fine.  But when you can’t abide the idea of the LDS hymn book containing *any* hymn celebrating/giving thanks for the safety and freedom and prosperity that the early Saints found in the mountains (which is ultimately what #37 builds up to) . . . that frankly baffles me.

And I don’t understand this rage to drop stuff from the hymnal.  If you don’t like a hymn, don’t sing it!  Don’t insist that the rest of the Church throw it down the memory hole.  Other churches have hymnals that are far thicker than our own . . .

Edited by Just_A_Guy

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14 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

And I don’t understand this rage to drop stuff from the hymnal.  If you don’t like a hymn, don’t sing it!  Don’t insist that the rest of the Church throw it down the memory hole.  Other churches have hymnals that are far thicker than our own .

This confuses me as well. For example I'm not a fan of "In our Lovely Deseret". Its tune is the same as a beautiful and sad Civil War song about prisoners in Andersonville prison that I love, so it already doesn't quite live up to my expectations. Plus the lyrics in "Deseret" make me laugh (probably an indictment against me if anything, it just sounds so hokey to me). But I will not be leading a protest movement to have it removed from the hymnbook. If someone gets something spiritual out of it, then by all means sing it. 

Edited by Midwest LDS

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14 hours ago, mordorbund said:

Ever since I've read Psalms I've felt that our hymnal is woefully lacking songs about raining vengeance on our enemies.

We used to sing "Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins / Stain Illinois while the earth lauds his fame". But some do-gooder or other changed that.

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I have trouble with the the uproar over the term "Indians".

I absolutely believe in using the tribal name when known, and in my case indigenous rolls off my tongue more naturally.

But the majority of my friends of such heritage have no issue with the term Indian. 

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The so-called Native Americans I've had conversations with seem to prefer to be specified by tribal affiliation, and call themselves "Indians" in aggregate. But I haven't had much conversation with college-age SJW Native American Indians, so I concede that there might be a sizeable population among that demographic that abhors the term. Still, my guess is that the uproar over the term "Indian" as applied to the descendants of the American aborigines is yet another conflict cooked up by the mostly white, fully lunatic SJW fringe, and accepted as always by the larger political left.

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I don’t think the complainant in the FB thread was upset at the use of the term “Indian”; I think she was upset at the suggestion that Utah is better off under European/Mormon hegemony than it was under Indian rule.  Which—I agree—is not a very politic thing to say in today’s PC climate.

But frankly, if you look into the history of the 19th century Ute leadership—the leadership, at least, were despicable people presiding over a generally predatory culture.  The Utes were the raiders and slave traders of the Rocky Mountains and in my experience are mistrusted by the Navajo and the Paiute to this day.  Ute chief Arapeen slaughtered slave Paiute children in front of horrified settlers to shame them into saving the surviving children’s lives by buying them, and Ute chief Wakara had his wives buried alive at his own funeral.  Obviously, individual acts of avarice or brutality by the settlers are horrifying and should be acknowledged and repudiated.  But on the whole, I’m no sorrier about Christian European-Americans defeating the Utes, than I am about the Axis powers’ defeat by the Allies or the CSA’s defeat by the USA.

Edited by Just_A_Guy

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