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laronius

Pres Nelson: Gathering Israel

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One of the main themes and point of major emphasis for Pres Nelson thus far is the gathering of Israel. I think the importance of this ongoing event is obvious and everytime he brings it up in my mind I think to myself "Got it. The gathering is very important." But I still haven't really come to any firm conclusion on what is different now, if anything, from before and my role in it all. I think it started a couple years ago when Pres Nelson came to our area where tens of thousands of saints gathered together to hear what he had to say and it was mostly on this topic. Afterwards I remember thinking "Okay, so now what? Is this just a renewed call to participate in the three main missions of the Church or is there something more to it?" And I am left with these same thoughts everytime he brings it up. It's obviously a point of focus he is emphasizing and I would like to respond accordingly but I feel like I'm missing something. Has anyone else had similar thoughts or insights they are willing to share?

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50 minutes ago, laronius said:

One of the main themes and point of major emphasis for Pres Nelson thus far is the gathering of Israel. I think the importance of this ongoing event is obvious and everytime he brings it up in my mind I think to myself "Got it. The gathering is very important." But I still haven't really come to any firm conclusion on what is different now, if anything, from before and my role in it all. I think it started a couple years ago when Pres Nelson came to our area where tens of thousands of saints gathered together to hear what he had to say and it was mostly on this topic. Afterwards I remember thinking "Okay, so now what? Is this just a renewed call to participate in the three main missions of the Church or is there something more to it?" And I am left with these same thoughts everytime he brings it up. It's obviously a point of focus he is emphasizing and I would like to respond accordingly but I feel like I'm missing something. Has anyone else had similar thoughts or insights they are willing to share?

It is my understanding that when the gathering of Israel has been completed that the Messiah will return.  Also that the powers of darkness are so opposed to the gathering that as it progresses all will be gathered - either to Israel or to the opposition of the gathering.

 

The Traveler

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8 hours ago, laronius said:

One of the main themes and point of major emphasis for Pres Nelson thus far is the gathering of Israel. I think the importance of this ongoing event is obvious and everytime he brings it up in my mind I think to myself "Got it. The gathering is very important." But I still haven't really come to any firm conclusion on what is different now, if anything, from before and my role in it all. I think it started a couple years ago when Pres Nelson came to our area where tens of thousands of saints gathered together to hear what he had to say and it was mostly on this topic. Afterwards I remember thinking "Okay, so now what? Is this just a renewed call to participate in the three main missions of the Church or is there something more to it?" And I am left with these same thoughts everytime he brings it up. It's obviously a point of focus he is emphasizing and I would like to respond accordingly but I feel like I'm missing something. Has anyone else had similar thoughts or insights they are willing to share?

In October General Conference he made this invitation: "As you study your scriptures during the next six months, I encourage you to make a list of all that the Lord has promised He will do for covenant Israel. I think you will be astounded! Ponder these promises. Talk about them with your family and friends. Then live and watch for these promises to be fulfilled in your own life." https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/11/46nelson?lang=eng

"We live in a glorious age, foreseen by prophets for centuries. This is the dispensation when no spiritual blessing will be withheld from the righteous. Despite the world’s commotion, the Lord would have us look forward to the future “with joyful anticipation.” Let us not spin our wheels in the memories of yesterday. The gathering of Israel moves forward. The Lord Jesus Christ directs the affairs of His Church, and it will achieve its divine objectives." https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/11/58nelson?lang=eng

He mentions gathering three times in his opening remarks as well: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/11/11nelson?lang=eng

The covenants and blessings are tied to the Gathering of Israel. I think it is a call to activate the "belonging module" in our spirits -- reach out to others on both sides of veil in various ways, be loyal to the Church and fellow members above all other identities, and promote this loyalty (one heart and one mind of Zion) that is based on the principal basics of testimony and ordinances.

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3 hours ago, CV75 said:

In October General Conference he made this invitation: "As you study your scriptures during the next six months, I encourage you to make a list of all that the Lord has promised He will do for covenant Israel. I think you will be astounded! Ponder these promises. Talk about them with your family and friends. Then live and watch for these promises to be fulfilled in your own life." https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/11/46nelson?lang=eng

One of his statements was "Each convert becomes one of God’s covenant children, whether
by birth or by adoption
".

How does a convert become a covenant child by birth?

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6 hours ago, Jonah said:

One of his statements was "Each convert becomes one of God’s covenant children, whether
by birth or by adoption
".

How does a convert become a covenant child by birth?

@theplains was trying to make sense of some similar teachings.

God made a covenant with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob that included promises to their descendants. Moses renewed these promises with them. You can read more about it in the Gospel Principles manual.

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2 hours ago, mordorbund said:

@theplains was trying to make sense of some similar teachings.

God made a covenant with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob that included promises to their descendants. Moses renewed these promises with them. You can read more about it in the Gospel Principles manual.

Just a slight clarification.   The term used in scripture is not decedents but seed.  It is my understanding that seed is reference to those that are active in the covenant first given to Abraham.  The operative word being "covenant".  Also in scripture those that are born of the spirit become "a new or reborn" creature - which also includes the covenant that makes them fellow "citizens" of the house hold of G-d.  Which is the same house hold of Abraham, Isaac and Israel.   Israel being the new name of the covenant following after Jacob.  The covenant that is the power behind the gathering of Israel promised by G-d.  All of which is part of the "renewed promises" that you are making reference.  Part of the meaning of the "Last Days" is the reference to the last time that the gathering will be established to take place.

The great flaw of traditional Christians is that they do not understand "a gathering" or renewal of Israel because they ignore (do not believe) in the scattering (apostasy) of Israel and the sacred covenant.  And so it all will be like the coming of the thief in the night.

 

The Traveler

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14 hours ago, CV75 said:

In October General Conference he made this invitation: "As you study your scriptures during the next six months, I encourage you to make a list of all that the Lord has promised He will do for covenant Israel. I think you will be astounded! Ponder these promises. Talk about them with your family and friends. Then live and watch for these promises to be fulfilled in your own life." https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/11/46nelson?lang=eng

"We live in a glorious age, foreseen by prophets for centuries. This is the dispensation when no spiritual blessing will be withheld from the righteous. Despite the world’s commotion, the Lord would have us look forward to the future “with joyful anticipation.” Let us not spin our wheels in the memories of yesterday. The gathering of Israel moves forward. The Lord Jesus Christ directs the affairs of His Church, and it will achieve its divine objectives." https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/11/58nelson?lang=eng

He mentions gathering three times in his opening remarks as well: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/11/11nelson?lang=eng

The covenants and blessings are tied to the Gathering of Israel. I think it is a call to activate the "belonging module" in our spirits -- reach out to others on both sides of veil in various ways, be loyal to the Church and fellow members above all other identities, and promote this loyalty (one heart and one mind of Zion) that is based on the principal basics of testimony and ordinances.

Thank you @CV75 that is a good response and straight from the prophet's mouth. Nice. I think you are right in that "gathering" is far more than a matter of geography. And implied in all this is the fact that we ourselves are also in the process of being gathered, regardless of our past activity and commitment.

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I thought it was funny in context; outside of context, it doesn't make much sense. After I posted it, it struck me as too vulgar for public consumption, especially on this site. I am making a concerted effort to fight the natural man. I'm almost winning, as in Clarence Day's well-known verse, often quoted by Hugh Nibley:

Might and right are always fighting.
In our youth it seems exciting.
Right is always nearly winning;
Might can hardly keep from grinning.

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20 hours ago, Jonah said:

One of his statements was "Each convert becomes one of God’s covenant children, whether
by birth or by adoption
".

How does a convert become a covenant child by birth?

The fuller statement is: "Each convert becomes one of God’s covenant children, whether by birth or by adoption. Each becomes a full heir to all that God has promised the faithful children of Israel!" Those who are of the literal seed of Abraham (covenant by birth) and do not know it or the covenants (or otherwise do not keep the covenants) can fully become covenant children (i.e. "a full heir" in his statement) once converted.

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9 hours ago, Vort said:

I thought it was funny in context; outside of context, it doesn't make much sense. After I posted it, it struck me as too vulgar for public consumption, especially on this site. I am making a concerted effort to fight the natural man. I'm almost winning, as in Clarence Day's well-known verse, often quoted by Hugh Nibley:

Might and right are always fighting.
In our youth it seems exciting.
Right is always nearly winning;
Might can hardly keep from grinning.

Next you’ll be telling us what hymns we shouldn’t sing.

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On 12/29/2020 at 9:03 AM, CV75 said:

The fuller statement is: "Each convert becomes one of God’s covenant children, whether by birth or by adoption. Each becomes a full heir to all that God has promised the faithful children of Israel!" Those who are of the literal seed of Abraham (covenant by birth) and do not know it or the covenants (or otherwise do not keep the covenants) can fully become covenant children (i.e. "a full heir" in his statement) once converted.

Is a full heir the same thing as a joint-heir as talked about in
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/tg/joint-heir?lang=eng ?

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18 minutes ago, Jonah said:

Is a full heir the same thing as a joint-heir as talked about in
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/tg/joint-heir?lang=eng ?

This may help:

Romans 4: 13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

 

Please note that the ancient term from which we obtain the modern concept of "righteousness"  meant one that entered into and was loyal to their covenant with G-d.  The point is that being "loyal" to divine covenant is what makes an heir of G-d.  Since Jesus was loyal to his covenant he is the heir of the Father.  Those that covenant with Christ become joint-heirs with Christ.

One difference between the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and Catholics is the covenant to which each institution remains loyal - in a historical context  - For example, the covenant to love your enemies and do good to those that despitefully use you.  We can test such claims  historically how the religious institutions in questions treated "heretics" or how the Defender of the Faith (by Papal decree) of Charlemagne for the murder of more northern European Pagans (including women, children and infants) than died of the Black Plague.

 

The Traveler

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17 hours ago, Jonah said:

Is a full heir the same thing as a joint-heir as talked about in
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/tg/joint-heir?lang=eng ?

A joint heir inherits everything that all the other heirs receive.  Thus, if you and I were the sons of a King and joint heirs, than when he died, we would inherit the Kingship together.  We would inherit everything together, so what you have, I would have.  In such a situation, it could mean that we would also be co-regents or co-rulers.

In the light of the Lord and being Joint heirs it is similar.  The Father of us all is eternal and is not going to pass away, however he has granted unto his son the inheritance of all he has.  Our Father can do this because he is Omnipotent and has the ability to give his son the ability to do as he does.

From a more Catholic standpoint, it would be in the understanding of the idea that the Son, though not the Father, is of the same substance and thus is also God at the same time, thus he and the Father are also one.  In this way, we can also be one with the son, as he and his father are one (and in fact, this is referenced directly by him in the New Testament as being something he desires).  In that light, you would be a separate person, but at the same time be one with the Lord, even as he and his father are one.  It does not mean that you would supplant either or gain the power of either, but that you could be one with the Lord even as he is one with the Father.  That you are part of his church and children, even as he is the only begotten of the Father.

For the Saints, or members of the Church, it would mean that as the Lord attains all that his father has, we can also inherit those same promises of eternal life and living with the Father through eternity that the Lord has received. 

In a nutshell for both religions, it means that we can inherit going to heaven just like the Lord is in heaven.

Edited by JohnsonJones

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20 hours ago, Jonah said:

Is a full heir the same thing as a joint-heir as talked about in
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/tg/joint-heir?lang=eng ?

Yes. Note the full sentence reads: "Each becomes a full heir to all that God has promised the faithful children of Israel!"

Can you explain something for me? I've noticed here and MDDB that some posters with the same -- for lack of my being able to think of a better word, "syntax" -- use the same format (very wide right  margins). Why is that?

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