Vort Posted March 13, 2021 Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 56 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said: There is a temptation outside the Church (and concededly, also within the Church to some degree) to envision Mormon eschatology as an environment where the work of “lower beings” is primarily to ensure the comfort and enable the leisure of “higher beings”. LOL. Funny how so many understand our doctrine to be the exact polar opposite of what it actually teaches. Just_A_Guy, Traveler and Carborendum 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carborendum Posted March 14, 2021 Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 10 hours ago, Vort said: LOL. Funny how so many understand our doctrine to be the exact polar opposite of what it actually teaches. As I'm often wont to point out: It is because people tend to create God in their own image. Their vision of heaven is that they will live an existence of lesiure with no responsibilities. All their whims are catered to. Indolence is the goal. So when we speak of exaltation, it is only natural for them to paint that picture upon the backdrop of their own preconceived notions and subconscious desires. Traveler, Just_A_Guy and Vort 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carborendum Posted March 14, 2021 Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 (edited) On 3/13/2021 at 9:11 AM, romans8 said: I do not mean to sound like a troll like @Jane_Doe says or not sounding honest or forthright like you said. You continue to commit the sin of "incidental insinuation." And you continually commit the logical fallacy of "logic chopping" via red herrings. If you don't know what it means, look it up. If you want to seem honest and forthright, then stop it. Quote Maybe I am misunderstanding verses 15-17 then. I read that relevant section in one of the manuals on the church's website but it did not explain it. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/doctrine-and-covenants-student-manual-2017?lang=eng Then you'll have to seek wisdom and understanding through earnest and sincere prayer with the intent of understanding the truth of these verses, rather than the falseness of these verses.. Quote Verse 16 seemsto insinuate... Really? Do you expect to be taken as a sincere truthseaker when your very questions contain accusations? Quote Does the phrase "ministering servants" refer to a group of people who serve? If yes, who are they? A sincere investigator will not require an answer to a question that they've supposedly already received an answer to about their own beliefs. Quote He who is greatest among you shall be the servant of all. Listen to the echo of the Savior's own words in the scriptures you accuse of insinuation, and you'll find your questions are already answered. Edited March 15, 2021 by Carborendum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romans8 Posted March 27, 2021 Report Share Posted March 27, 2021 On 3/13/2021 at 11:35 AM, Just_A_Guy said: *Anyone* who ministers to/helps another is an angel and a ministering servant in the work of saving souls, regardless of what “degree of glory” they may have attained. Yes, only those who have entered the new and everlasting covenant of marriage (a subset of the Celestial) will be serving in the particular roles defined in D&C 132:19-20 I re-read your posts. Based on what you said, is it fair to conclude that the gods of verse 19 are also considered *appointed angels* like those in verse 16? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted March 27, 2021 Report Share Posted March 27, 2021 (edited) 58 minutes ago, romans8 said: I re-read your posts. Based on what you said, is it fair to conclude that the gods of verse 19 are also considered *appointed angels* like those in verse 16? For the purposes of this particular section that conclusion would be misleading. This section is drawing a distinction between “angel” and “god”; but it’s more of a rhetorical distinction than a theological/definitional one. The point of verses 16-19 is that, amongst all who are ultimately redeemed by Jesus Christ, those who do not enter and keep the new and everlasting covenant of marriage (v 16) will be directed in the work of saving souls by (“ministering for”) those who do enter and keep that covenant. “Angel” in this context is simply a catch-all term to describe people who attained salvation but not exaltation. As blessed and holy as their final state is; they have neither spouse, nor continuation of seed, nor any thrones or dominions. But in other sections of scripture and LDS discourse, “angel” and “god” can be used interchangeably. We refer, for example, to “angels” like Moroni and Gabriel and Michael (the latter two of whom we equate respectively with Noah and Adam) without making any inference about their somehow having failed to attain eternal marriage or godhood; and indeed Adam is our liturgical archetype for the marital covenant itself. So, we can’t really develop a consistent, narrow, precise definition for the word “angel”; because the scriptures aren’t that consistent or precise linguistically. Edited March 27, 2021 by Just_A_Guy romans8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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