1 Nephi 3:7 and D&C 124: 49


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49  Verily, verily, I say unto you, that when I give a commandment to any of the sons of men to do a work unto my name, and those sons of men go with all their might and with all they have to perform that work, and cease not their diligence, and their enemies come upon them and hinder them from performing that work, behold, it behooveth me to require that work no more at the hands of those sons of men, but to accept of their offerings.

 (Doctrine and Covenants | Section 124:49)

And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.

(1 Nephi 3:7)

In light of the teaching contained in Doctrine and Covenants 124: 49 how confident can we be in the teaching contained in 1 Nephi 3:7? An additional question about the teaching in 1 Nephi 3:7 is suggested by the difficulty that Adam and Eve would have faced in keeping both the commandment to not partake of the fruit and the commandment to go forth and multiply.

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13 hours ago, askandanswer said:

49  Verily, verily, I say unto you, that when I give a commandment to any of the sons of men to do a work unto my name, and those sons of men go with all their might and with all they have to perform that work, and cease not their diligence, and their enemies come upon them and hinder them from performing that work, behold, it behooveth me to require that work no more at the hands of those sons of men, but to accept of their offerings.

 (Doctrine and Covenants | Section 124:49)

And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.

(1 Nephi 3:7)

In light of the teaching contained in Doctrine and Covenants 124: 49 how confident can we be in the teaching contained in 1 Nephi 3:7? An additional question about the teaching in 1 Nephi 3:7 is suggested by the difficulty that Adam and Eve would have faced in keeping both the commandment to not partake of the fruit and the commandment to go forth and multiply.

A way is provided that they may be saved, though it may not be immediate.

A prime example is why we perform baptisms for the dead.  If someone truly wished to follow the Lord and accept his gospel but the gospel was no where to be found on the earth at the time, would it be just for them to have no chance to attain exaltation?  We know the Lord is just.  If that individual strove to follow the Lord and to do what was right and if they had been given the chance would have received his gospel...their actions are with merit.  They did not strive in vain.  Instead, a way is provided that they will receive that exaltation.  In this, they are given the gospel in the Spirit world and taught Baptisms for the Dead which they can receive.  There is a way provided which they can have all the required ordinances performed in this life that was not available to them previously.  A way was provided that they may accomplish the things commanded of them.

Sometimes the way to accomplish things may not occur to us in mortality or arrive upon us before death, but there is always a way to accomplish the work of the lord if we desire to do so as long as we strive to accomplish it to the best of our ability in this life.

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I think there can be multiple things that factor in with these situations. I think the same qualifier we find with the promises of God pertain to his commandments as well.

Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40 God having provided some better thing for us...

When fulfilling the original commandment is no longer best suited to bringing about the exaltation of man it is completely within God's purview to alter that commandment or at least give a temporary reprieve. 

In connection with that point I think timing could also be a factor. A commandment was given to establish Zion in Jackson County. The early saints failed to do so but the commandment still exists and will one day be accomplished. 

There is also the element of grace to be considered. In many instances the fulfilling of a commandment is not entirely within the power of man. So the "keeping" of a commandment as it pertains to us is necessarily restricted to that part we can control. If God chooses in His own wisdom to withhold His helping hand and the ultimate end of the commandment is not attained it could still be argued that for our part the commandment was indeed "kept."

And it all could just be a test as with Abraham offering up his son. That is why faith is the First principle of the gospel. There is simply too much going on both behind the scenes and beyond our comprehension to fully understand the workings of God.

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18 hours ago, askandanswer said:

In light of the teaching contained in Doctrine and Covenants 124: 49 how confident can we be in the teaching contained in 1 Nephi 3:7?

We should be perfectly confident.  But that's the problem.

  • Nephi was perfectly confident.  So, even in the face of death, he continued while his brethren were afraid of continuing.
  • The Saints were confident... until... they were met with fierce opposition.
  • Nephi came up with other ideas and different methods.
  • The Saints (the bulk of them) simply gave up. (Not that I can blame them).
  • Nephi's mission was able to be performed alone (being led by the Spirit).
  • The Saint's mission had to be done by a people not an individual.  The people never got to the stage of even asking to be led by the Spirit.  Those who remained faithful, received Section 124 (yes, eventually shared with everyone).

So, when the people lost faith, the Lord excused the individuals who remained faithful from performing the work that they could not do without the help of the people as a whole.

There is more to this which I will address at the end of this post.

Quote

An additional question about the teaching in 1 Nephi 3:7 is suggested by the difficulty that Adam and Eve would have faced in keeping both the commandment to not partake of the fruit and the commandment to go forth and multiply.

I think we can agree that Adam and Eve were a special case.  But even so, I don't believe that their case was a no-win situation.  Yes, a lot of people say that.  But I think there was a way.  But it simply didn't occur to them.  Proof of that is that even with the benefit of hindsight, we can't seem to figure it out either.  Have any of us asked if there was another way?  Adam and Eve didn't seem to have asked to be led by the Spirit then.  Perhaps, that was part of the "partaking of the fruit".

For both Adam and Eve, they made their decisions with what they had at the time.  But neither stopped and asked the Lord,"What should I do?"

And if we know that "other worlds" had the same thing happen.  But there "seems" to have been no punishment, then there must have been a way for it to be done without transgressing the law.  And finally, a world was made where one failed to keep one commandment (my personal belief).  And that opened the door for mortality to begin.  If this is not literally true, then at least the metaphor is implied.

IF THEY WERE GOING TO FAIL, WHY BOTHER GIVING THEM A COMMANDMENT TO FAIL?

When given a commandment, it should not be news that many times, we do not fulfill the commandment. That's what the Atonement of Christ is for.  But there is always a reason for a commandment being given in the first place.  And sometimes "failure" is the reason.

In the case of the temple in Missouri, the Lord wanted the Saints to build a temple for them to obtain the ordinances and covenants, yes.  But it didn't NEED to be built right then and there.  The need for the Missouri temple was for some time in this dispensation.  That could wait.  But, eventually, they built the Nauvoo temple for their immediate needs.

So, why the commandment that cost the lives of so many Saints?  The answer is simple.  Blood.  

I've read it too many times to dismiss.  In older generations, they understood.  Today, one tends to discount it.  But just as Abraham Lincoln said when proposing to consecrate the graves of the dead at Gettysburg:

Quote

The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here have consecrated (this ground) far above our poor power to add or detract.

 -- Gettysburg Address

The Lord needed that land of Missouri to be consecrated with the blood of the Saints before we could build the temple.  And at the same time, I see a parallel.  Christ had to come into a world wicked enough to crucify Him.  As such, the world was not ready for the Church to endure.

Just as there was a restoration of the Church, there will be a restoration of that commandment to build a temple there.  But the Missouri of that time was not prepared for it because they had to be wicked enough to... perform such wickedness upon the Saints of God.  There was so much more than blood being spilt.  These were demons incarnate.  And the Saints' suffering was part of what prepared that land for the eventual New Jerusalem to be built.

Edited by Carborendum
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@askandanswer
A side thought that just came to me concerning the Adam and Eve issue of being commanded to multiply and replenish the earth.

We still have that commandment today, to multiply and replenish the earth. However there are many couples that simply do not have the ability to do so due to infertility. God does not punish them for this, because of their inability to do so, they are made exempt from accomplishing this command.

I imagine the same was with Adam and Eve. The command to multiply and replenish wasn’t given to them alone, but to mankind as a whole, they just happened to be the first of mankind and also and exception to rule (at the time of it being given).

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3 hours ago, laronius said:

I think there can be multiple things that factor in with these situations. I think the same qualifier we find with the promises of God pertain to his commandments as well.

Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40 God having provided some better thing for us...

When fulfilling the original commandment is no longer best suited to bringing about the exaltation of man it is completely within God's purview to alter that commandment or at least give a temporary reprieve. 

In connection with that point I think timing could also be a factor. A commandment was given to establish Zion in Jackson County. The early saints failed to do so but the commandment still exists and will one day be accomplished. 

There is also the element of grace to be considered. In many instances the fulfilling of a commandment is not entirely within the power of man. So the "keeping" of a commandment as it pertains to us is necessarily restricted to that part we can control. If God chooses in His own wisdom to withhold His helping hand and the ultimate end of the commandment is not attained it could still be argued that for our part the commandment was indeed "kept."

And it all could just be a test as with Abraham offering up his son. That is why faith is the First principle of the gospel. There is simply too much going on both behind the scenes and beyond our comprehension to fully understand the workings of God.

So it seems from your response that you are more in favour of the Doctrine and Covenants teaching than the Nephi 3:7 teaching - that sometimes God gives us commandments but does not always provide a way whereby we can accomplish them, and that He might then relieve us of the need to comply with that commandment?

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2 hours ago, askandanswer said:

So it seems from your response that you are more in favour of the Doctrine and Covenants teaching than the Nephi 3:7 teaching - that sometimes God gives us commandments but does not always provide a way whereby we can accomplish them, and that He might then relieve us of the need to comply with that commandment?

I think 1 Nephi 3:7 states how we should approach any commandment from God but all the while acknowledging that He at any moment could change, void, reverse course, or alter in any way his command. 

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23 hours ago, askandanswer said:

49  Verily, verily, I say unto you, that when I give a commandment to any of the sons of men to do a work unto my name, and those sons of men go with all their might and with all they have to perform that work, and cease not their diligence, and their enemies come upon them and hinder them from performing that work, behold, it behooveth me to require that work no more at the hands of those sons of men, but to accept of their offerings.

 (Doctrine and Covenants | Section 124:49)

And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.

(1 Nephi 3:7)

In light of the teaching contained in Doctrine and Covenants 124: 49 how confident can we be in the teaching contained in 1 Nephi 3:7? An additional question about the teaching in 1 Nephi 3:7 is suggested by the difficulty that Adam and Eve would have faced in keeping both the commandment to not partake of the fruit and the commandment to go forth and multiply.

It seems to me that Nephi spoke with more experience than Adam and Eve had. I’m sure Adam and Eve felt inclined or supposed they would obey, but they lacked Nephi’s life experience.

It can be said that the Lord did prepare a way for Adam and Eve to keep both commandments. Either we do not know what those ways were; the way prepared to act on one commandment was to not act on the other; or it was just a matter of timing (if one was kept long enough, a way to keep the other would materialize).

In relation to this timing, enemies hindering the work (Satan in Eden, Laman and Lemuel in 1 Nephi, Boggs in D&C 124) can never invalidate the acceptability of our offerings we make, and 2 Nephi 27:20-21 will prevail (“I am able to do mine own work”).

So I think all these lend confidence to these verses and the Eden accounts we have (they are mutually supportive)

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On 1/2/2021 at 1:53 PM, askandanswer said:

49  Verily, verily, I say unto you, that when I give a commandment to any of the sons of men to do a work unto my name, and those sons of men go with all their might and with all they have to perform that work, and cease not their diligence, and their enemies come upon them and hinder them from performing that work, behold, it behooveth me to require that work no more at the hands of those sons of men, but to accept of their offerings.

 (Doctrine and Covenants | Section 124:49)

And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.

(1 Nephi 3:7)

In light of the teaching contained in Doctrine and Covenants 124: 49 how confident can we be in the teaching contained in 1 Nephi 3:7? An additional question about the teaching in 1 Nephi 3:7 is suggested by the difficulty that Adam and Eve would have faced in keeping both the commandment to not partake of the fruit and the commandment to go forth and multiply.

I like the distinction drawn upthread about  the difference between individual commandments (the fulfillment of which depends primarily on our own efforts) versus collective commandments (where we can do our all and still find our efforts undercut by third parties).

Additionally—I think timing is an issue.  There are, I believe, windows of opportunity that can (temporarily) close if not taken promptly.  In his talk “Cast not away your confidence”, Jeffrey Holland talks about Oliver Cowdery’s promise that he would be able to translate records; and points out that Cowdery “failed to seize the opportunity of a lifetime within the lifetime of the opportunity”.  When the opportunity closes and the fulfillment of the commandment is no longer possible, the Lord revokes the command—precisely because of the principle Nephi enunciated. 

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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20 hours ago, askandanswer said:

Why?

I would say that previous responses concluded what I would say better than my original response would have been. I started to write, then stopped, and just went with my original thought -- very confident.

Let me see if this thought might interweave the verses correctly, and highlight important events that lead to 1 Nephi 3: 7. First, we must recognize that Nephi's words come after the  commandment to Lehi to his sons. Nephi's courage to continue resulted from his faith in an angel's words, paraphrazed, "God will deliver Laban into thy hands." Would Nephi have continued if an angel did not appear after being dealt a hard blow -- the rod -- from Laman and Lemuel? Personally, I think not. It was the angel who reiterated and promised the commandment would be fulfilled because God delivered Laban. One might ask, "Why then would God intervene here with Laban and Nephi, but not at other times"? There are two things that come directly to my mind in answer: Faith and Promise (God isn't a liar). Without the plates would God's promise to Lehi be fulfilled? I don't think it would have, and as such, God made sure his promise was kept.

In that light, the verses can be compared but not equated as equal. If Nephi went again the third time and "failed" to receive the plates because Laban wasn't drunk and out cold on the ground. We would now have a trickier situation. The Lord's commandment and an angel's declaration -- ouch. Even so, the Lord would have provided another way for the commandment to be fulfilled.

Nephi and his brethren would have returned. They would have explained to Lehi what happened and all that they did. What would have Lehi done? We already know, because his actions are easy to determine. He would have entered his tent and prayed to know the will of the Lord. At that moment, the Lord would have made a decision from the verses shared we can accept the following: 1) He would have accepted the merits of Lehi and his sons and provided another way, or 2) He would have again commanded Lehi and then made further promise that Laban would be delivered and the commandment would then be fulfilled.

With option 1, the commandment remains in force and kept. The Lord could have easily then created visions and dreams by which Lehi would have been able to write the commandments necessary. When no other option is viable the Lord can open up other options -- an optional prepared way -- for the commandment to be accomplished.

With option 2, the commandment is in force and the sons go again (This time leaving Laman and Lemuel behind ;)  )

These scriptures aren't at odds, but show the wisdom of God that his plans aren't frustrated by the natural man, nor by Satan (those who list to obey his voice rather than God's like Laban). Thus we are able to be very confident in both the words of Nephi, and the words given in our Doctrine and Covenants. In my minds eye, this shows simply how "perfect" God is.

Edited by Anddenex
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I will respond with my understanding.  There seems to be a couple of issues.  The first issue comes from Nephi obtaining the Brass Plates.  Part of the issues is that as the brothers were sent to get the plates - there was not a clear path to accomplish it as it may seem from Nephi's initial statement a a way prepared.  That the plates were not obtained despite the obedience of the 4 sent, one must wonder; why was Laban not delivered initially when all the brothers were united, obedient and working together?   What is interesting to me is that the only way the plates were obtained was by intervention from G-d.  Despite all the efforts of those sent - their abilities, obedience, efforts from their own devices - all led to failure and nearly loss of their lives.  It is only by the intervention of G-d it was accomplished.  

This then brings us to the second issue - most think that the mission of G-d must be accomplished during the mortal time between birth and death.  Obviously many die without accomplishing what needs to be done.  We praise Nephi and condemn Laman and Lemual  as wicked not knowing the final outcome.   I believe this kind of thinking is incomplete.  Another term for completeness is whole and holy.  The measure of success based in this life only is deeply flawed.  We are not striving for mortal success but rather for eternal success.  Some have pointed this out already in this thread.  If we have hope of Christ in this life only - we are of men most miserable. 

Concerning the conflict of Adam and Eve concerning the seeming  conflict of interest of commandments.  First we must understand that the fall was necessary for our opportunity to have knowledge of Good and Evil.  That there is no eternal life without the knowledge of Good and Evil and selecting Good for an eternal purpose.  The transgression of Adam and Eve is a type and shadow of all our transgressions and fall to become mortal.  The sad truth of this fall is that we all will eventually fail and die.  Despite all the commandments and all our obedience - we will die - which is the ultimate failure.  Our faith and hope is therefore in the resurrection - which we have no empirical evidence but only the evidence of faith and the few that saw the resurrected Christ.

And so before we get wrapped all around the difficulty and failure of mortality - let us not let go of our faith that mercy and justice will come and all be fulfilled in the resurrection.

 

The Traveler

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14 minutes ago, Traveler said:

Despite all the efforts of those sent - their abilities, obedience, efforts from their own devices - all led to failure and nearly loss of their lives.  It is only by the intervention of G-d it was accomplished.

Did the Holy Spirit speak from heaven or did he appear to Nephi to inform him to kill
Laban?

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1 hour ago, Jonah said:

Did the Holy Spirit speak from heaven or did he appear to Nephi to inform him to kill
Laban?

What an interesting question. When the Holy Spirit speaks to you does he appear to you or does he speak from heaven? I can think of very few instances in scripture where the Holy Spirit takes a form, so I'm wondering if your lived experience is different.

As for your question, you can read the story of Nephi and Laban here. The particular methodology is not stated - whether it was an audible voice or a "head-voice" that also resonated in his heart - but follows the standard scriptural formula of having the Spirit "speak".

As you read of Nephi's interaction with the Spirit, how is it similar or different from your interactions with the Spirit?

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On 1/5/2021 at 2:10 PM, mordorbund said:

What an interesting question. When the Holy Spirit speaks to you does he appear to you or does he speak from heaven? I can think of very few instances in scripture where the Holy Spirit takes a form, so I'm wondering if your lived experience is different.

As for your question, you can read the story of Nephi and Laban here. The particular methodology is not stated - whether it was an audible voice or a "head-voice" that also resonated in his heart - but follows the standard scriptural formula of having the Spirit "speak".

As you read of Nephi's interaction with the Spirit, how is it similar or different from your interactions with the Spirit?

I don't hear an audible voice but feel promptings of the Spirit.  From reading the account
of Nephi, it sounds like he heard a voice and responded with his voice (unless he was
talking to himself).

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On 1/5/2021 at 1:46 PM, Carborendum said:

Did God speak from heaven or did he appear to Samuel to have Saul kill all the men, women, and even suckling infants and the animals?

From 1 Samuel 15.  I think He spoke from heaven. I don't see anything that would
indicate His appearing.

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3 minutes ago, Jonah said:

I don't hear an audible voice but feel promptings of the Spirit.  From reading the account
of Nephi, it sounds like he heard a voice and responded with his voice (unless he was
talking to himself).

My experience with the Spirit has been similar to what you describe. And my reading of Nephi's account matches yours as well.

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On 1/12/2021 at 12:26 PM, Jonah said:

From 1 Samuel 15.  I think He spoke from heaven. I don't see anything that would
indicate His appearing.

So, why did you ask about Nephi?  Do you see anything in that passage that would indicate His appearing to Nephi at that time? No, there is nothing to indicate that. 

But you found it needful to ask about Nephi and not about Samuel.  Why?

For you to arrive at truth, you need to apply the same standard of truth to all things.  Inconsistency in such matters, especially holy matters, is what the Savior referred to as hypocrisy.

Edited by Carborendum
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/17/2021 at 12:49 PM, Jonah said:

No particular reason.   There was another case in which Gabriel visited Mary.

It is interesting to me that Satan appeared to Jesus and tempted him (following his baptism).  Part of Satan's temptation included the quoting of sacred scripture.  How do you discern spiritual promptings from heaven and the initial flaxen cord type of temptations of Satan that come as counterfeits of spiritual promptings?

 

The Traveler

Edited by Traveler
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1 hour ago, Traveler said:

It is interesting to me that Satan appeared to Jesus and tempted him (following his baptism).  Part of Satan's temptation included the quoting of sacred scripture.  How do you discern spiritual promptings from heaven and the initial flaxen cord type of temptations of Satan that come as counterfeits of spiritual promptings?

Satan quoted scripture in order to tempt Jesus to sin.  So I would say that counterfeit spiritual
promptings will lead to evil fruit in the life of a believer.

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On 1/30/2021 at 10:25 PM, Carborendum said:

why he so easily shies away from any discussion of Samuel and Saul.

The account of the witch of Endor summoning Samuel is recorded in 1 Samuel 28:7-20. I think
God allowed this and the witch seemed surprised herself in that she cried out when she saw
Samuel.

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