Ironhold Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 Hypothetical situation. Your adult daughter has taken a seemingly once-in-a-lifetime job opportunity - "corporate assistant" or some nonsense of the sort - in a town far enough away that it's a special trip for you to visit her. By "special trip", I mean "holidays". Ever since she moved, her communications with you have been brief, and her tone is such that while it's good to talk, it's best if she doesn't talk for very long. What you do get from her is that she's quite busy, that even if she did have time to talk there's a confidentiality agreement in place, but that you shouldn't worry as she's living in a small house paid for by her employer. The letter "B" at the end of her street address suggests some sort of plaza or townhouse arrangement. When you learn that a mutual associate is going to that down on a business trip, you ask them to check in on her. When the associate returns, you get a breathless and barely coherent rant about how she may or may not be "living with" a wealthy local businessman 10 years her senior; not only is this person a member of her ward, he's also apparently her immediate superior. The associate claims to have confirmed this by checking out not only the ward roster but also a public phone directory. When you go to check it, you discover a very critical detail the associate missed. The guy's residence? 10101 such-and-such street. Her residence? 10101B such-and-such street. One check of Google Maps later, and you find that he lives on a very large estate... which includes several other structures, all of whom have letters at the end. "B" indicates what appears to be a pre-fabricated house of a type you've seen on television. In other words, she's living on his property. How do you respond? [ ] [ ] (Your daughter is indeed just that busy. Between working as his assistant, taking distance learning classes he's paying for, maintaining the property, and her church assignments, she's swamped. If anything, he's been having to have other staff members bring her meals to ensure that she's eating, and he's on the fence about simply sending her back home for her own good.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fether Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 (edited) Under 18 - Tell her she can’t do it anymore and to come home immediately Over 18 - Share you concerns with her edit: after rereading it again, I misunderstood the post... it doesn’t seem like a big deal. Anyone who has ever rented a house has lived on the property of someone else. Edited January 6, 2021 by Fether Jane_Doe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted January 5, 2021 Report Share Posted January 5, 2021 "Wow, Sally. Looks like you really scored on your apartment. Must be nice living near such a generous fellow ward member. Good for you! Don't work too hard." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted January 6, 2021 Report Share Posted January 6, 2021 Well . . . Did she arrive in the far-away town as a mail-order bride? Inquiring minds want to know! mordorbund, Vort, JohnsonJones and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carborendum Posted January 6, 2021 Report Share Posted January 6, 2021 (edited) If it were my daughter, she probably wouldn't have taken such a position if only because of the "appearance of evil". If the conditions were not known to her and things gradually became apparent, I don't know when she would draw the line. If she told me about it after she realized what she was getting into, then I would ask about the offering documents that describe the benefits that include paid room and board. Such things are the mechanisms of human traffickers and I'd warn her about it. If after all is said and done, it is all completely legit, I would worry about my daughter working so hard and counsel her to take time off for herself and social development. all work and no play... At no time would I be worried that she consciously chose to become a mistress of some guy, rich or not. That simply is not my daughter. Edited January 6, 2021 by Carborendum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted January 6, 2021 Report Share Posted January 6, 2021 (edited) No need for specifics, this is merely one of a billion variants of the Universal Hypothetical Situation: "Your adult kid may or may not be going in ways you don't like. What do?" Answer: Stress, ponder, and pray. Love. If you have stewardship, operate within it. Otherwise, operate within your sphere of influence. In other words, offer what you can, be a safety net if she needs it. In other words, unless she is still your dependent child, she's an adult making adult decisions and living an adult life. Edited January 6, 2021 by NeuroTypical Jane_Doe, askandanswer and mirkwood 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CV75 Posted January 6, 2021 Report Share Posted January 6, 2021 14 hours ago, Ironhold said: [ ] [ ] (Your daughter is indeed just that busy. Between working as his assistant, taking distance learning classes he's paying for, maintaining the property, and her church assignments, she's swamped. If anything, he's been having to have other staff members bring her meals to ensure that she's eating, and he's on the fence about simply sending her back home for her own good.) What is the source of the following information: (Your daughter is indeed just that busy. Between working as his assistant, taking distance learning classes he's paying for, maintaining the property, and her church assignments, she's swamped. If anything, he's been having to have other staff members bring her meals to ensure that she's eating, and he's on the fence about simply sending her back home for her own good.) Do I have this information? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironhold Posted January 6, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2021 7 hours ago, CV75 said: What is the source of the following information: (Your daughter is indeed just that busy. Between working as his assistant, taking distance learning classes he's paying for, maintaining the property, and her church assignments, she's swamped. If anything, he's been having to have other staff members bring her meals to ensure that she's eating, and he's on the fence about simply sending her back home for her own good.) Do I have this information? Tossing that in as an explanation in case anyone was wondering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CV75 Posted January 6, 2021 Report Share Posted January 6, 2021 6 minutes ago, Ironhold said: Tossing that in as an explanation in case anyone was wondering. I would not be fazed by "a breathless and barely coherent rant" -- the context seems to be that this behavior and tendency to conjecture is typical (and so I probably would not have asked them to check in on her in the first place). I would thank the mutual associate for checking in on her. I would do the double-checking as indicated and probably conclude, having the italicized information, my priority should be to continue to reach out to her and broach the subject of how she is handling being swamped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordorbund Posted January 7, 2021 Report Share Posted January 7, 2021 1. Is this character based on me? If not, then why do you want to know my reaction? The important thing is that your character is consistent in his reactions. Well, that and the reaction should fit with the human condition, in which case... 2. Most people don't know how they would really act given a hypothetical. I wouldn't be the one "just following orders" but experiments show otherwise. I wouldn't just turn a blind eye to the abuses the government heaps on an unpopular group except history indicates otherwise. Usability studies exist because people don't know themselves nearly as well as they think they do. Ask them if they'd pay more for ice cream in a container with rounded corners and you'd find few that agree; put them in a grocery store with $5 and watch them behave differently. Ask them if making the "buy" button green has any affect on their purchase decision and they'll deny it; stick them on the website and watch their cart fill up and ship out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CV75 Posted January 7, 2021 Report Share Posted January 7, 2021 On 1/5/2021 at 10:10 PM, NeuroTypical said: No need for specifics, this is merely one of a billion variants of the Universal Hypothetical Situation: "Your adult kid may or may not be going in ways you don't like. What do?" Answer: Stress, ponder, and pray. Love. If you have stewardship, operate within it. Otherwise, operate within your sphere of influence. In other words, offer what you can, be a safety net if she needs it. In other words, unless she is still your dependent child, she's an adult making adult decisions and living an adult life. It also covers several other topics dealing with several moral foundations. "Your adult kid may or may not be going in ways you don't like. What do?" is but one interpretation of the hypothetical that deals with Loyalty/betrayal (respect for parents and upbringing), Authority/subversion (respect for tradition), and Sanctity/degradation (Moral purity). But there are also aspects that deal with Care/harm (empathy, kindness, gentleness, and nurturance), Fairness/cheating (justice, rights, and autonomy), and Liberty/oppression (economic arrangement). Our answers will be driven by the preference and balance of our moral foundations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fether Posted January 7, 2021 Report Share Posted January 7, 2021 So I’m confused... what is the hypothetical moral issue here? I seems like all that is happening is the daughter is living in company paid for housing owned by a guy in the company... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carborendum Posted January 8, 2021 Report Share Posted January 8, 2021 17 hours ago, Fether said: So I’m confused... what is the hypothetical moral issue here? I seems like all that is happening is the daughter is living in company paid for housing owned by a guy in the company... The "appearance of evil" is that we have an older gentleman who owns a set of apartments (one of which he lives in) while a young single woman is housed in a unit he owns and pays for. meanwhile, she never seems to see the light of day and not a lot of people are seeing her around. The details (once revealed) make it seem less nefarious. But the "appearance" is there. And as I stated before, this is exactly the type of thing that many young, unsuspecting women have gotten into slavery over. The other half of it is that she's just plain working too hard. Fether 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted January 8, 2021 Report Share Posted January 8, 2021 (edited) - Every young single woman renting a place, everywhere on planet earth, will be living in a unit owned and paid for by someone else. Many of the owners will be 'older gentlemen'. - Red flags for anyone, single or not: They stop communicating, seem to have dropped off the face of the earth, no longer engage in previously enjoyed hobbies/activities, stuff like that. "her tone is such that while it's good to talk, it's best if she doesn't talk for very long" - this is not much of a red flag. If you see red flags, whether it's a young single woman, or an elderly parent, or a co-worker, go make contact with 'em. At the end of the day, if they refuse to interact with you, about all you can do is call the cops and ask them to do a welfare check. Yes, women get abducted into the sex trade all the time, or get hooked on drugs, or get into an abusive relationship. What Ironhold describes doesn't really give enough details to be especially worried, but it's always possible. Edited January 8, 2021 by NeuroTypical Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carborendum Posted January 8, 2021 Report Share Posted January 8, 2021 3 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said: - Every young single woman renting a place, everywhere on planet earth, will be living in a unit owned and paid for by someone else. Many of the owners will be 'older gentlemen'. I'm not sure what you're saying here. It seems you're picking at semantics to try to nullify my point. For the meaning I intend, I don't see how your statement above will be true. If you're talking about "a renter doesn't own it, the landlord does." Well, duh. But we're talking about a place that the young, single woman is NOT paying rent on. That's an important distinction. It may be considered part of her "salary" but that is not so common. Such a benefit is usually reserved for special displacement type jobs (like you're working on a project in a different state that will shut down in 6 months to a year, and they move you around) or some very high-level exclusive type of job. So, I certainly would call this a red flag. But again, once looked into, it may very well be on the up and up (such as going on a mission). But it is not common. 3 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said: "her tone is such that while it's good to talk, it's best if she doesn't talk for very long" - this is not much of a red flag. That alone is not a red flag. But put it into the background of all the other stuff... it could be just another straw on the camel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CV75 Posted January 8, 2021 Report Share Posted January 8, 2021 17 hours ago, Fether said: So I’m confused... what is the hypothetical moral issue here? I seems like all that is happening is the daughter is living in company paid for housing owned by a guy in the company... Our responses to what happens in other people's lives involves our sense of what is the right thing for us to do in relation to that (the question, what is our response). Our sense of what is right is rooted in our moral foundations, which influence our inclinations, intuitions and biases. These in turn drive our more rational decisions, which only serve to justify or carry out our biases with action (our response). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted January 8, 2021 Report Share Posted January 8, 2021 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Carborendum said: The "appearance of evil" is that we have an older gentleman who owns a set of apartments (one of which he lives in) while a young single woman is housed in a unit he owns and pays for. meanwhile, she never seems to see the light of day and not a lot of people are seeing her around. 23 minutes ago, Carborendum said: 34 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said: - Every young single woman renting a place, everywhere on planet earth, will be living in a unit owned and paid for by someone else. Many of the owners will be 'older gentlemen'. I'm not sure what you're saying here. It seems you're picking at semantics to try to nullify my point. For the meaning I intend, I don't see how your statement above will be true. A while ago, I owned a duplex. One of my renters was a young single woman, who was housed in a unit I owned and paid for. I have no earthly clue whether she ever left her unit or not, I never saw her. For all I know, she never saw the light of day, or even lived there. Until this very day, it never dawned on me that someone might suspect me of something, or have reason to look at any appearance of evil. Ok, living in a residence paid for by an employer isn't common. It happens, but is not common. Ok, living in one of several units on estate land where the employer lives in a big mansion isn't common. I wish associates making barely coherent rants were less common, but what can you do. It's good to keep good relationships with our adult children, and know as many ins and outs of their life as they're willing to share. It's good to stay in touch, it's good to talk regularly, it's good to visit. Family can be a first line of defense against horrible things happening. The results of the regular short conversations would raise or lower my concerns, more than anything being reported here. Yes, put a thousand young single women in this situation, and two or three of them have made it into some weird cult, and their lives and souls are in danger. I'm thinking the other 998 of 'em are in no danger. her communications with you have been brief, and her tone is such that while it's good to talk, it's best if she doesn't talk for very long. What you do get from her is that she's quite busy, that even if she did have time to talk there's a confidentiality agreement in place, but that you shouldn't worry as she's living in a small house paid for by her employer. People suckered into cults don't communicate with their parents. When they do, their tone isn't what is being described here, unless they're happy with the arrangement. Edited January 8, 2021 by NeuroTypical Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carborendum Posted January 8, 2021 Report Share Posted January 8, 2021 (edited) 45 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said: A while ago, I owned a duplex. One of my renters was a young single woman, who was housed in a unit I owned and paid for. Like I said, there is a the landlord-tenant relationship (where she paid rent). And there is the "come live here for free on my dime while you do my bidding." (Notice that I've exaggerated to drive the message home.) There is a difference between the paying tenant and the paid-for guest. The third thing in the middle is the paid-for employee where "conditions" should be looked into. This is certainly not the landlord-tenant. Then one wonders which of the other two it is. Without the further information that Ironhold eventually provided, I'd wonder which it was and have some concern for my daughter. However, WITH the further knowledge eventually provided, I'd have not concerns. Quote Ok, living in a residence paid for by an employer isn't common. It happens, but is not common. Ok, living in one of several units on estate land where the employer lives in a big mansion isn't common. OK, semantics again. Let me be clear then. It's not just "uncommon" it is exceptionally rare (big difference) unless it is one of those conditions I described. If I had known ahead of time that it was indeed one of those (or similar) conditions that she was getting into, then no problem. If it wasn't, but the company was still paying for her room and board, I'd at least want to investigate. Does she have some special skill set that would qualify her for such work? If not, how did she land such a gig? If she does have such a skill set, then good for her. There is a difference between being "suspicious" and simply wanting "verification" (considering connotations more than denotations). I'm not saying there is enough to get suspicious here. But there is enough that I'd want verification. Edited January 8, 2021 by Carborendum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted January 8, 2021 Report Share Posted January 8, 2021 Quote There is a difference between being "suspicious" and simply wanting "verification" (considering connotations more than denotations). I'm not saying there is enough to get suspicious here. But there is enough that I'd want verification. Agreed. I don't think we really disagree with much here, except I believe jobs that provide housing aren't as rare as you seem to believe. 20 Jobs That Provide Free Housing Indeed.com search for jobs that provide housing Ziprecruiter search There are quite a number of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carborendum Posted January 8, 2021 Report Share Posted January 8, 2021 1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said: Agreed. I don't think we really disagree with much here, except I believe jobs that provide housing aren't as rare as you seem to believe. 20 Jobs That Provide Free Housing Indeed.com search for jobs that provide housing Ziprecruiter search There are quite a number of them. And a great deal of them were in the categories I stated. Here are some (from your links) that were not: Property superintendent/manager/security. Yes, of course, I hadn't thought of that one. Add that to the list. Military. Yes, of course. Forgot that. Even those who don't "travel" are afforded on-base housing or given a housing allowance for off base. Live-in/full-time/personal assistance (Nanny, personal caregiver, butler, personal chef). Yes, this is true. But such jobs are few and far between. So, a rarity. Not in the field, but in the overall job market. Clinical Laboratory Scientist??? That's got to be an exception. I know many whose job description would fit that title. And none of them have free housing. I may have missed a few. But most of the others were either in the categories I named, or they were exceptions in their own field. I imagine "mechanic" is not a title that usually gets free housing. But I consider Navin R. Johnson and could believe there are some exceptions. So, adding three categories, yes, it is INDEED (see what I did there) rare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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