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Vort

Media ignoring horrible people purely out of anti-conservative/anti-religious/racist bigotry?

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Today, I was trying to think of the outcome of charges against malefactors and criminals who preyed on conservative and/or religious people. For some reason, the media refuses to follow up on how the prosecution against such people is going. Examples off the top of my head include:

  • The 2020 arrest of Jesse Taggart, who shot a driver in Provo during a BLM riot, apparently just for the pure fun of it.
  • The 2020 arrest of Samantha Darling in Provo for her own nefarious activities during the same debacle.
  • The 2019 arrest of Zachary Greenberg for beating up a conservative on a sidewalk at UC Berkeley. Last news I saw about him was last August, when he was arrested for assaulting someone else with a knife.

There are literally dozens or scores of other examples; I don't take much effort to write them down or keep track of them; I had to go Googling to find the names of the three mentioned above. Do any of you have other examples?

And the question: Why? Why does the media studiously ignore reporting the  progress of charges against such people, when they gleefully and intently follow the progress of charges filed against criminals who transgress PC ethics? Or perhaps I just answered my own question.

Edited by Vort

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1 minute ago, mirkwood said:

Pretty much.  The media is the propaganda wing of the left.

I wouldn't say it is the entire media, but there is a problem with the media in general these days that they have become propaganda wings in the US rather than trying to be unbiased news sources.  A great majority of the media are propaganda for the Left (CNN, MSNBC, CNBC, much of mainstream and popular Hollywood and their movies, shows, etc) but you also have channels which are propaganda wings for the right (OAN, the Blaze, supposedly).

From a unique perspective, I see BOTH sides of the spectrum as currently being evil to many degrees, with one side refusing to acknowledge the laws of chastity and promoting gross evil regarding the breaking of them, while the other side is full of pride and a complete lack of charity for their fellow man.  It's a rigged game where the adversary is playing both sides.  No matter if you choose to be a liberal or a conservative and follow them to the far extremes of their beliefs you lose.

However, to guide this into a more acceptable discussion for TH, I'd say that how people are acting these days is not unexpected.  We know that people will get more and more divided with evil being called good and good being called evil.  As the people get divided into these groups those that choose evil will grow far more numerous than those who follow the Lord and those who are the humble followers of the Lord will be small comparatively. 

The scriptures which talk about this day and time in the scriptures are too numerous to all quote here, but you find them in Isaiah, both 1st and 2nd Nephi, Revelations, and other books in the scriptures just to name a few.  The Book of Mormon itself can be seen as a type and shadow of our time, and if the things that occurred before the Lord's resurrection occur again, we have not yet seen the worst of it.

I remember people always hoping to see the second coming and being excited for it in my youth.  It is exciting, but I always thought more should be a little concerned because before the second coming in glory the days of affliction were prophesied to come.  If one reads about the Last days in the Scriptures, it is supposed to be one of the worst and most troubling times this earth will ever see, even some of those that were righteous and great among us will fall according to the revelations. 

In that light, the real reason we see such evil around us today is because the adversary is lose and people around us are heeding his wishes more and more.  We are in the final times before the Lord comes again, and though we can celebrate what will happen after these Latter and Last days, living through it may become exceedingly hard as the world becomes more wicked around us.

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8 hours ago, Vort said:

And the question: Why? Why does the media studiously ignore reporting the  progress of charges against such people, when they gleefully and intently follow the progress of charges filed against criminals who transgress PC ethics? Or perhaps I just answered my own question.

Because they all hope to one day be this guy. They have simply chosen a side that they believe will win in the end and could care less about what they destroy along the way. They are like the little sidekick/henchmen that tags along with the bully, (e.g. Mr. Smee with Captain Hook, Iago with Jafar, or LeFou with Gaston). They have nothing else to really offer society, so they try and get looped in with who they perceive to be the big man on campus. It is not about news, but all about money, security, and looking good to their circle. It is a race to the top of the pyramid...because there is very little room there, and when "fit hits the shan", they don't want to be below it...because it might get their fancy designer clothes dirty.

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But, what about the truth...how can they get away without reporting the actual news? Well, when you have politicians like this guy below in power, you can see why, and it places your nation on a path to destruction. Unrighteous dominion happens every time, everywhere. History is unbeaten when it comes to nations and corruption...they have fallen every single time.

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This is why it is imperative for us to have the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost. As President Nelson has said "If we are to have any hope of sifting through the myriad of voices and the philosophies of men that attack truth, we must learn to receive revelation."

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I am thinking that instead of getting caught up in the current news and events - that this may be a good time to go back to revisit and listen more carefully to the talks from the last two conferences.

 

The Traveler

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11 hours ago, Vort said:

Do any of you have other examples?

I'm not sure if this fits the question, but was the first thing that entered my mind -- the death of the five year-old (point blank with a gun) that you only heard about from other friends. Major media outlets pushed it aside. It wasn't supporting the narrative.

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A couple reasons:

@Godless is right, to some degree.  Local police blotters often do report the denouement of some of these cases, and it just never goes national the way the news of the arrest/arraignment did.

@Vort is also right.  There is propaganda at play here.  I was absolutely shocked, for example, at the lengths the Salt Lake Tribune went to to conceal pertinent details of the Madi Barney story. And of course, much of the riots that ensued regarding folks like Trayvon Martin, Mike Brown, Jacob Blake, etc., could have been avoided if media had openly acknowledged the weakness of the various cases against the shooters from the get-go.

— Quite bluntly, it’s hard to track a bunch of court cases to see how they end; as reporter, you’ve got to be pretty on-the-ball to be able to gather and report the resolution of high-profile cases in a timely way.  Over 90% of criminal cases plea out.  Often a criminal case will have 3-5 pretrial conferences over several months before a plea is entered; and if you aren’t privy to the correspondence between prosecution and defense, you ever know if *this* next hearing will be the one where the case settles.  It would be a huge waste of resources for a reporter to attend each and every hearing for a given case—let alone a few dozen (formerly) high-profile ones.  Even if you’re just checking the court minute entry orders after every hearing to see if anything has changed—in Utah it often takes a couple days to get everything updated in the system; so by the time the docket includes the terms of the disposition, it’s old news.  

Edited by Just_A_Guy

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So I just read that a conservative "mob" or some such thing had "stormed" DC. I don't know what happened. Did anyone die? I could go to the news sites, but I don't trust anything they write. Literally. They are liars. Where was the condemnation of the news media for the leftist "mob" of Antifa and idiots who took over downtown Seattle? Even Seattle's worthless mayor refused to call them what they were. But they are quick to denounce and name-call pro-Trumpists who, you know, get together for political reasons.

I admit I am ignorant in what's going on. I have intentionally avoided almost all media since October. It's just too ugly and draining. But I still know what a liar is, and I still know that the media are liars, and the vast majority of leftists are liars and/or dupes.

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Vort, one protestor was shot by a cop, another trampled to death in the Rotunda, and two more suffered heart attacks/strokes and died.  Two or three cops were also hospitalized and one later died.  The congresscritters were sent scurrying for cover and proceedings were shut down for several hours until the Capitol building could be cleared.

Jedi, it would of course be foolish to say there were *no* antifa-types there.  But the lady who was shot trying to break into the House chamber was a known Trump supporter, as is the infamous Buffalo/shaman dude.  Andy Ngo, who covered much of Anrifa’s antics during the Portland/Seattle/Minnesota kerfluffles, is on-record saying he doesn’t think this was antifa-led.  I had an old elementary school pal who was on-site (solid conservative, ex/Coast Guard and currently living in northern VA awaiting his next overseas assignment with the State Department) and wrote the following on Facebook:

Once again, history. This afternoon I went to bear witness at the Capitol. I love this building and the country it represents. It was painful to see it, and the people who work there, subjected to such abuse.

Observations:
- The array of flags was staggering. There were many that I don't recognize and many customized versions of flags. It would be interesting to do a study of the symbology on all the flags represented today. In one of the photos below you can see a Korean flag alongside a Trump flag. I don't understand what that message might be or its intended audience.
- There were a lot of varieties of religion present. There were street preachers and prophets peddling a large variety of very, um, interesting theology. One man, with no Trump gear on, knelt behind the Capitol building in the dead center of the walkway. He was praying the rosary for this situation and for our country. With choas all around him, he knelt in perfect peace offering his prayers.
- The atmosphere on the front lawn was carnival-like, complete with vendors selling flags, signs, shirts, hats, and all kinds of other gear. Though it felt like a party, it was a volatile one, with angry screams erupting periodically in the midst of triumphant throngs.
- Anyone who looked like they might be a reporter was subject to lots of screaming, and they were constantly interrupted while trying to report. People would intentionally stand between them and their cameras, or yell at them from close range to ruin their audio.
- Lots of people were holding flags and signs purporting to support the police. Some of these very same people were screaming in the faces of police officers. One woman, who was using a bullhorn to harangue a line of law enforcement officers, was asked to stop by someone behind her. I heard her turn and say that her husband is a police officer. She then turned back to her bullhorn and continued a profanity-laced tirade directed at the police officers.
-  As I walked through the crowd, I heard over and over again people who said they would be willing to kill Vice President Pence. I know that it's easier to say things like this in the safety of a mob, but it was still chilling to hear. One man turned to his friend and said that he read on his phone that Vice President Pence had been arrested. They were elated.
- Around the back of the Capitol, there was a stairway with broken windows at the top. A large man, dressed in head-to-toe camoflage and wearing a gas mask, leaned again the back door. He stared at Capitol police officers through the window and slowly, insistently tapped a flagpole with a Trump flag against the door. The police inside stood their ground and watched him. I watched for about 5 minutes, and he never stopped tapping.

Friends, I don't know where we go from here. Pray for our country, and pray for the people elected and hired to serve her. Some of them are away from their families and possibly in danger tonight because of this situation at the Capitol. We'll need to do a lot of work if we're to continue on together.

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2 hours ago, Vort said:

So I just read that a conservative "mob" or some such thing had "stormed" DC. I don't know what happened. Did anyone die? I could go to the news sites, but I don't trust anything they write. Literally. They are liars. Where was the condemnation of the news media for the leftist "mob" of Antifa and idiots who took over downtown Seattle? Even Seattle's worthless mayor refused to call them what they were. But they are quick to denounce and name-call pro-Trumpists who, you know, get together for political reasons.

I admit I am ignorant in what's going on. I have intentionally avoided almost all media since October. It's just too ugly and draining. But I still know what a liar is, and I still know that the media are liars, and the vast majority of leftists are liars and/or dupes.

Trump supporters stormed into the Capitol building yesterday while the entire body of Congress was in session with VP Pence to certify the EC result. One woman was shot and killed by Metro Police while the mob was moving towards the main Senate chamber. The chamber was evacuated and the Congress members and VP were moved to secure locations. One police officer was injured and died earlier today. Three other people died from unknown causes. Allegedly, one dude tased himself accidentally and had a fatal heart attack, but I don't think that's been confirmed. Police from VA and MD came in to help restore order. The DC National Guard eventually showed up as well after being delayed for reasons that haven't been made clear. 

With the exception of taser guy, everything I stated above is verifiable fact. Several members of the mob have been ID'd as right wing Trump supporters. There is currently no evidence to suggest that Antifa agitators were involved in any way. Video footage from multiple sources indicates that the DC and Metro Police were underprepared for this insurrection, and some LEO seemed pretty disinterested in stopping it.

Going into full editorial mode now. This is the closest thing to treason that I've seen on American soil. I don't care how you feel about the election result, there is nothing patriotic about disrupting an elected body of legislators while they're fulfilling their Constitutional obligation. Period. Now enjoy some photos from the scene, because it's very hard for a photograph to lie. And yes, that first image is the United States flag being taken down and replaced with a Trump flag.

 

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Edited by Godless

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2 minutes ago, Godless said:

Trump supporters stormed into the Capitol building yesterday while the entire body of Congress was in session with VP Pence to certify the EC result. One woman was shot and killed by Metro Police while the mob was moving towards the main Senate chamber. The chamber was evacuated and the Congress members and VP were moved to secure locations. One police officer was injured and died earlier today. Three other people died from unknown causes. Allegedly, one dude tased himself accidentally and had a fatal heart attack, but I don't think that's been confirmed. Police from VA and MD came in to help restore order. The DC National Guard eventually showed up as well after being delayed for reasons that haven't been made clear. 

With the exception of taser guy, everything I stated above is verifiable fact. Several members of the mob have been ID'd as right wing Trump supporters. There is currently no evidence to suggest that Antifa agitators were involved in any way. Video footage from multiple sources indicates that the DC and Metro Police were underprepared for this insurrection, and some LEO seemed pretty disinterested in stopping it.

Going into full editorial mode now. This is the closest thing to treason that I've seen on American soil. I don't care how you feel about the election result, there is nothing patriotic about disrupting an elected body of legislators while they're fulfilling their Constitutional obligation. Period. Now enjoy some photos from the scene, because it's very hard for a photograph to lie.

Looks pretty awful, even condemnable. And I condemn it, even as I recognize that these people merely fulfill the negative stereotypes, not just of Trump supporters, but of Republicans and conservatives in general.

But what I want to know is: Where was the media outrage when mobs were roaming the streets in cities across the US, robbing and looting and committing arson and murder? Where are the media cries of "Mostly peaceful?" After all, most of the "mob" weren't killing police or vandalizing.

Please explain it to me, @Godless, in terms I can understand. Seriously. Because I see no possible way to explain it except that the media plays favorites very openly and unapologetically. They are leftists, like you. And they lie, hopefully unlike you. Do you condemn the media as readily and as openly as I condemn the apparent idiots and criminals in DC?

And if so, is it possible that the media is simply playing this up, perhaps even beyond what really happened, because there is hay to be made? Sounds like conspiracy theory, doesn't it? Except if you're conservative, you know that it's completely possible. The media invents things about conservatives all the time. They openly vilify conservative thought and conservative people, and have done so for at least 30 years, just in my own recollection.

I have a hard time imagining that the media could be well enough coordinated to conspire to misreport at least the general outlines of the DC goings-on. I am forced to accept that a bunch of lunatics and anti-American morons, fueled much more by hatred of what they loath than love of country or principle, committed criminal acts. But that in no way implies that I can believe a word of what the media reports about it.

As for "photographs don't lie", that's simply ridiculous. Photographs lie all the time. It's all about presentation and context. Surely you see that.

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1 hour ago, Jedi_Nephite said:

The media is lying. They are trying to say it was stormed by Trump supporters, but the evidence is that it was instigated by Antifa, and the violence was caused by them as well.

https://twitter.com/TheRightMelissa/status/1347040212602466304?s=20

That tweet proves nothing except that some of the participants were feeling friskier than others. I won't insinuate that there was no antifa presence yesterday, we need to wait for the facts. I'll make some observations though.

- Antifa protesters always cover their faces, even in the absence of a pandemic. There weren't many covered faces yesterday.

- Contrary to what you may think, Antifa isn't stupid. The odds of the bullets being fired inside the Capitol being rubber were precisely zero. Trumpers were willing to bet on cops being gentle with them. Antifa would never. 

- @Just_A_Guy mentioned hostility towards the media. That's not really Antifa's thing. They value the role of the press in documenting potential abuse at the hands of police. 

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15 minutes ago, Godless said:

Trump supporters stormed into the Capitol building yesterday

"Stormed"? What, were they armed and wearing flak jackets?

Did Antifa goons "storm" into the streets last summer? Did second-generation hippie idiots "storm" into downtown Seattle?

15 minutes ago, Godless said:

Several members of the mob have been ID'd as right wing Trump supporters.

So you're unapologetically calling anyone who protested in DC "the mob", rather than characterizing them as angry voters fed up with a corrupt system, with just a few malcontents among them causing all the trouble. Do you see any problem with this? Is this how things were characterized last spring and summer? (No, of course not.) Why the difference? Why do you justify it? Or am I somehow mistaken?

Not sure exactly what a "right wing Trump supporter" is, but I expect it's someone like me. Do you see any media generalization going on? If so, is that okay with you? (I have not read media news in probably three months or more, but based on what I know of the liars in the media, they are not being careful to separate "right wing Trump supporters", as they brand them, from fascist criminals committing felonies. I don't know if I'm right, but I would bet a significant sum of money that I am.)

18 minutes ago, Godless said:

This is the closest thing to treason that I've seen on American soil. I don't care how you feel about the election result, there is nothing patriotic about disrupting an elected body of legislators while they're fulfilling their Constitutional obligation.

Except, it seems, when it's the Democrats sabotaging the process by disrupting proceedings. Am I wrong? I hope so, actually. Did you find that treasonous?

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10 minutes ago, Vort said:

But what I want to know is: Where was the media outrage when mobs were roaming the streets in cities across the US, robbing and looting and committing arson and murder? Where are the media cries of "Mostly peaceful?" After all, most of the "mob" weren't killing police or vandalizing.

Please explain it to me, @Godless, in terms I can understand. Seriously. Because I see no possible way to explain it except that the media plays favorites very openly and unapologetically. They are leftists, like you. And they lie, hopefully unlike you. Do you condemn the media as readily and as openly as I condemn the apparent idiots and criminals in DC?

You'd be surprised how distrustful the Left is of the major news media outlets despite the fact that, as you correctly claim, there is a clear liberal bias. I tried to be very careful (sometimes unsuccessfully, I'll admit) when commenting on last summer's riots because there was a lot of misinformation and one-sided reporting going on. I'll admit that the fact that I fully supported the reasons behind the protests made some of the violent aspects a bit more palatable, even if I didn't agree with those actions. 

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And if so, is it possible that the media is simply playing this up, perhaps even beyond what really happened, because there is hay to be made? Sounds like conspiracy theory, doesn't it? Except if you're conservative, you know that it's completely possible. The media invents things about conservatives all the time. They openly vilify conservative thought and conservative people, and have done so for at least 30 years, just in my own recollection.

Good news, you don't have to take my word for it, or the media's. The people who lived through it had plenty to say, including the Conservatives. 

 

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As for "photographs don't lie", that's simply ridiculous. Photographs lie all the time. It's all about presentation and context. Surely you see that.

Fair enough.

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5 hours ago, Vort said:

"Stormed"? What, were they armed and wearing flak jackets?

Not armed, that would be suicide in that building. But...

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So you're unapologetically calling anyone who protested in DC "the mob", rather than characterizing them as angry voters fed up with a corrupt system, with just a few malcontents among them causing all the trouble. Do you see any problem with this?

I'm calling the ones who breached the building a mob. Is that an inaccurate description? I never said that every Trumper in DC stormed the place. Yes, many of them had the good sense to stay outside. I have no beef with them. They didn't break the law.

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Is this how things were characterized last spring and summer? (No, of course not.) Why the difference? Why do you justify it? Or am I somehow mistaken?

I have never justified the violent aspects of the BLM protests. Violent protest is inexcusable, regardless of who engages in it. I'll point out two things though.

1. In multiple instances during the BLM protests, the police played a significant role in escalating things. That doesn't remotely excuse the violent responses from protesters, but I saw enough footage to believe that the cops played a significant role in how some of those protests went from peaceful to violent.

 

2. There's a subtle difference between looting a Target or breaking windows in a pawn shop and threatening the safety of elected officials carrying out essential government business. Both are reprehensible and could be called terrorism, yes. One of them could be called treason.

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Not sure exactly what a "right wing Trump supporter" is, but I expect it's someone like me. Do you see any media generalization going on? If so, is that okay with you? (I have not read media news in probably three months or more, but based on what I know of the liars in the media, they are not being careful to separate "right wing Trump supporters", as they brand them, from fascist criminals committing felonies. I don't know if I'm right, but I would bet a significant sum of money that I am.)

The prevailing narrative is that the GOP on the whole is complicit in yesterday's lawlessness, and I have a hard time disagreeing with that. Republicans had ample opportunities over the last four years (not to mention the last two months) to distance themselves from Trump's inflammatory rhetoric. Instead they smiled uncomfortably and let it slide for the sake of a few judges and tax cuts. Their silence became deafening yesterday.

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Except, it seems, when it's the Democrats sabotaging the process by disrupting proceedings. Am I wrong? I hope so, actually. Did you find that treasonous?

As of now, there is no substantial evidence to back up the claims of voter fraud. Dozens of judges had a chance to give Trump his day in court, including multiple Trump appointees. The Trump campaign exhausted every legal means of challenging the election results before the Congressional certification yesterday. That doesn't mean that he he has to sit quietly and drop his legal cases*. But the reality now is that Joe Biden is going to be sworn in as the 46th US president. If credible evidence comes to light after the inauguration, there are legal paths to presenting it. You know, like the Dems did. You can hate them all you want for launching investigations and impeachment proceedings, but that's how challenging a sitting president is supposed to work. 

*If any lawyers will work with him. A lot of Republicans are putting a lot of distance between themselves and Trump right now.

Edited by Godless

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Here’s the distinction I see, though I think it’s a distinction neither side of the political spectrum is really giving a lot of thought to:

Destruction of property is always wrong.  Disobeying cops is always dumb.  Occupying public buildings is always a bad look.

But . . .

This happened while Congress was in session.  It was a deliberate attempt to stop them from meeting, prevent their through the procedures that would have formalized Joe Biden’s elevation to the presidency, and keep Donald Trump in the White House even though to all reasonable intents and purposes he did win the election.  (By the way, Senators McConnell, Romney, and Lee all gave excellent speeches the same day, that really summed up the issues at play.)

I don’t know that I’m comfortable calling it a “coup attempt”, as many on the left have done.  But it’s pretty awful.  This was worse than the occupation of the Wisconsin state house in 2011; worse even than the occupation of the Senate Office Building and other hijinks that happened during the Kavanaugh hearings. Yes, those events laid the groundwork for what happened this week; but this was still a significant escalation.

I’d be lying if I said there weren’t a part of me that was happy to see conservatives finally acting like leftists, to show those in power that we are done being pushed around.  But from all the reaction that I can see amongst my progressive friends on Facebook, this week’s events have only heightened progressives’ contempt for conservatism generally and strengthened their resolve to squish us all like bugs.  We are much, much closer to civil war now than we were a week ago.  

Edited by Just_A_Guy

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7 hours ago, Vort said:

Looks pretty awful, even condemnable. And I condemn it, even as I recognize that these people merely fulfill the negative stereotypes, not just of Trump supporters, but of Republicans and conservatives in general.

But what I want to know is: Where was the media outrage when mobs were roaming the streets in cities across the US, robbing and looting and committing arson and murder? Where are the media cries of "Mostly peaceful?" After all, most of the "mob" weren't killing police or vandalizing.

Please explain it to me, @Godless, in terms I can understand. Seriously. Because I see no possible way to explain it except that the media plays favorites very openly and unapologetically. They are leftists, like you. And they lie, hopefully unlike you. Do you condemn the media as readily and as openly as I condemn the apparent idiots and criminals in DC?

And if so, is it possible that the media is simply playing this up, perhaps even beyond what really happened, because there is hay to be made? Sounds like conspiracy theory, doesn't it? Except if you're conservative, you know that it's completely possible. The media invents things about conservatives all the time. They openly vilify conservative thought and conservative people, and have done so for at least 30 years, just in my own recollection.

I have a hard time imagining that the media could be well enough coordinated to conspire to misreport at least the general outlines of the DC goings-on. I am forced to accept that a bunch of lunatics and anti-American morons, fueled much more by hatred of what they loath than love of country or principle, committed criminal acts. But that in no way implies that I can believe a word of what the media reports about it.

As for "photographs don't lie", that's simply ridiculous. Photographs lie all the time. It's all about presentation and context. Surely you see that.

This also kind of burns me.  I do not condone what these protesters did in Washington (though if one recalls, this is NOT the first time they've breached the capital building, though it is the first time they reached a chamber.  Back this past summer we had a bunch of BLM folks do something similar, but the media seems to conveniently overlook and condone that...even the more conservative ones seem to forget this.   Furthermore, various groups have invaded various government buildings the past few years.  Not just limited to the US Capital, but Capitals all around the US were attacked, invaded, and vandalized by the BLM movement just this past summer, AND they  managed to kill far more people than died in the protests in Washington DC.  IF the protests this summer were considered PEACEFUL protestors, then what we saw in Washington is not just peaceful but benign. 

 

Obviously it was not and those that invaded the Capital building itself (as opposed to those who were merely there and did not do anything of the sort) it was offensive to all those who love freedom (irony to note, a person waving a Captain Moroni Flag was there). 

I also think that the FAR left is going bonkers in an offensive way.  Many are calling these protesters the cause of sedition and treason (but then, WHY NOT THOSE WHO DID THE SAME STUFF THIS SUMMER FROM BLM...IF YOU ARE GOING TO CALL IT FOR ONE GROUP...CALL IF FOR ALL WHO DO THIS) which I don't think would hold up in court.  They disrupted the government processes directly and there are various other charges which could be levelled, but they did not actually kill anyone, change any laws (though it could be attributed that due to their disruption they actually sped up the confirmation of the electoral...which actually is not a BAD thing, but probably good), did not take anyone hostage, and did not actually do much of anything except vandalism and other crimes that do not meet the standard of the charge of sedition or treason.  IT annoys me when the Right does and says things I disagree with  (as many of the conservatives on this board can even attest to), but I am ALSO equally annoyed at the comments from the Far Left that also do ridiculous things in a like manner.

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8 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Here’s the distinction I see, though I think it’s a distinction neither side of the political spectrum is really giving a lot of thought to:

Destruction of property is always wrong.  Disobeying cops is always dumb.  Occupying public buildings is always a bad look.

But . . .

This happened while Congress was in session.  It was a deliberate attempt to stop them from meeting, prevent their through the procedures that would have formalized Joe Biden’s elevation to the presidency, and keep Donald Trump in the White House even though to all reasonable intents and purposes he did win the election.  (By the way, Senators McConnell, Romney, and Lee all gave excellent speeches the same day, that really summed up the issues at play.)

I don’t know that I’m comfortable calling it a “coup attempt”, as many on the left have done.  But it’s pretty awful.  This was worse than the occupation of the Wisconsin state house in 2011; worse even than the occupation of the Senate Office Building and other hijinks that happened during the Kavanaugh hearings. Yes, those events laid the groundwork for what happened this week; but this was still a significant escalation.

I’d be lying if I said there weren’t a part of me that was happy to see conservatives finally acting like leftists, to show those in power that we are done being pushed around.  But from all the reaction that I can see amongst my progressive friends on Facebook, this week’s events have only heightened progressives’ contempt for conservatism generally and strengthened their resolve to squish us all like bugs.  We are much, much closer to civil war now than we were a week ago.  

It was not a "coup" attempt and unless the Left want to call out their own BLM (and the actual organization has promoted a communist agenda and this summer promoted an actual communist overthrow of the government, and the actions taken regarding state capitals and the US capital show a LOT MORE aggression in this regard for a longer and more prolonged period...if anyone is to be considered attempting a coup under the same values the left is tossing at the protesters, they should be EAGER to haul the BLM organization's leaders out front and center, but I do not see them doing that, which speaks DROVES to me regarding the hypocrisy of those calling for this).

I don't even agree that they should impeach Trump over this event (though I DO think that if they were to try to impeach him again, impeach him for causing death on a massive scale from Covid-19 and the things he has done to literally hinder the safety of people as well as the hinderance of getting the vaccine out and available...THAT I think is far more impeachable than the most recent event).

I don't agree with what they did (or what those who were part of the BLM movement, I do not agree with the BLM organization, but I can understand somewhat what those who are part of the movement itself feel), but I think this speaks out that people are angry with their government.  There are those one both sides that are angry about what they perceive as their government being unwilling to listen to them and thus they feel that the only way to have their issues even acknowledged (most probably don't expect to have any action taken to correct the issues, but at least they can make it so that the issues are seen and known rather than ignored) is to protest as they have been over the past year.  I see the protests (not just the one in Washington, but also the BLM protests as well) as a failure of our government to listen to the people regarding the various things they feel matter to them.

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A center-left friend of mine thinks the Dems won’t impeach.  Her rationale is that if Trump is impeached and removed, he’s barred from running again; whereas a Trump who’s eligible to run in 2024 will spend the next 4 years keeping the GOP divided.  He’s exponentially more useful to the Democratic Party if he can keep his office for two more weeks.

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7 hours ago, Godless said:

Not armed, that would be suicide in that building. But...

I find this attitude surprising.  It would have been considered suicide to attack federal buildings where federal agents were stationed in a DEFENSIVE position.

How many ANTIFA groups were, indeed, armed?  MOST.  And yet I have not yet heard of a single UNARMED ANTIFA member being shot by police.  Maybe there was one.  I haven't heard of it.

ANTIFA were specifically there to perform violent acts.  That's what they do.  That's what they've always done.

These guys were there to make their presence known just like in the Wisconsin legislative chambers. (That was Wisconsin, right?).  Where is the declaration of "mostly peaceful protests"?

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