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Anddenex

The Shame of Elder Renlund

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Here is the thought Elder Renlund provided that is irritating "thought leaders" and those that have succumbed to these thoughts leaders:

Quote

I am forever grateful for my wife, Ruth, and for our dear, dear, dear daughter, Ashley. When Ashley is at home, it is like the darkness of the Sleeping Beauty castle abates and there is life and light in the home again. I was devastated that I infected them with the SARS-CoV-2 virus. While they have recovered, I feel responsible. Imagine how devastated I would be to bring home a spiritually virulent virus that decreased their faith in Heavenly Father and His plan and in the Savior and His Atonement. Such a metaphorical virus could have eternal consequences.

The metaphor is a brilliant metaphor relating sickness (virus) to spiritual sickness, and how we should avoid anything in our lives that might threaten the eternal reward of our family. Seems to be a very appropriate analogy in light of scripture. And yet, this section is full of people irritated because  -- the guilty take a truth to be hard. My favorite comment is this, "I doubt that this was an inspired comment and hope you’ll reconsider what a damaging impact this sort of stigmatizing and divisive sentiment has to our congregations."

First, it's funny that someone thinks they are able to say what is inspired and isn't when it was "personal" revelation to Elder Renlund, which he is sharing. The Lord doesn't work horizontally with revelation or inspiration, so the pride involved in this sentiment is even more sad.

Truth only impacts a congregation harmfully if the congregation is prideful and doesn't want to accept truth.

It really becomes tiring reading comments from people who want to twist words an apostle or prophet will say to further their justification for their decisions.

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15 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

Here is the thought Elder Renlund provided that is irritating "thought leaders" and those that have succumbed to these thoughts leaders:

The metaphor is a brilliant metaphor relating sickness (virus) to spiritual sickness, and how we should avoid anything in our lives that might threaten the eternal reward of our family. Seems to be a very appropriate analogy in light of scripture. And yet, this section is full of people irritated because  -- the guilty take a truth to be hard. My favorite comment is this, "I doubt that this was an inspired comment and hope you’ll reconsider what a damaging impact this sort of stigmatizing and divisive sentiment has to our congregations."

First, it's funny that someone thinks they are able to say what is inspired and isn't when it was "personal" revelation to Elder Renlund, which he is sharing. The Lord doesn't work horizontally with revelation or inspiration, so the pride involved in this sentiment is even more sad.

Truth only impacts a congregation harmfully if the congregation is prideful and doesn't want to accept truth.

It really becomes tiring reading comments from people who want to twist words an apostle or prophet will say to further their justification for their decisions.

I fail to see anything wrong with his metaphor. How is it damaging to congregations?

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14 minutes ago, carlimac said:

I fail to see anything wrong with his metaphor. How is it damaging to congregations?

You and I agree. There isn't anything wrong with the metaphor unless someone is wanting to stir the pot -- so to speak. It is a great metaphor.

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9 hours ago, Anddenex said:

Here is the thought Elder Renlund provided that is irritating "thought leaders" and those that have succumbed to these thoughts leaders:

The metaphor is a brilliant metaphor relating sickness (virus) to spiritual sickness, and how we should avoid anything in our lives that might threaten the eternal reward of our family. Seems to be a very appropriate analogy in light of scripture. And yet, this section is full of people irritated because  -- the guilty take a truth to be hard. My favorite comment is this, "I doubt that this was an inspired comment and hope you’ll reconsider what a damaging impact this sort of stigmatizing and divisive sentiment has to our congregations."

First, it's funny that someone thinks they are able to say what is inspired and isn't when it was "personal" revelation to Elder Renlund, which he is sharing. The Lord doesn't work horizontally with revelation or inspiration, so the pride involved in this sentiment is even more sad.

Truth only impacts a congregation harmfully if the congregation is prideful and doesn't want to accept truth.

It really becomes tiring reading comments from people who want to twist words an apostle or prophet will say to further their justification for their decisions.

I think it was Elder Renlund that recently got called many things, including a false prophet and other items for his stating that he was acting as an apostle of the Lord in asking us to wear masks.  He was asking us to show our charity for others as well as express our concerns and to care for ourselves and those around us. 

Because of this wise counsel, counsel which I may add I think was actually given MANY MONTHS PRIOR by the Prophet, the apostle was called MANY things by Members of the Church.

Bringing up the Virus that has plagued so many in our nation bringing so much death and devastation in his analogy probably annoys and burns many of the anti-maskers and science deniers that worship Trump and his sycophants but claim to be members of the Church.  They have been angry (and to give one a slight indication of their anger, many also supported the actions of the Far Right at the Capital...another item which the General Authorities of the Church have recommended are not in our best interest) at the Apostle ever since and are rather rabidly against him. 

Ironically, these same actors have turned off some of my own family to the Church in recent times.  Even more ironic as it seems the actions of the local church leaders in their support of their new Idol have tuned out the suggestions of the actual leaders of the Lord (something I am trying VERY HARD with those of my family who have had the local leaders do some rather evil things to convince that the upper leadership of the church thinks differently than what their local leaders enacted).  I see a LOT of this type of sentiment among the members today though.  In our own ward they have restarted a few things at the church building but require those who go to wear a mask and social distance.  There are up to a quarter of the active membership in our own area which refuse to go to these items because a mask is required.  They feel requiring such is trampling upon their rights of freedom of religion (which logic rather puzzles me considering the earlier statements from the General Authorities regarding wearing masks) and freedom of choice.

I think even MORE ironically, this is going to hurt missionary work in the future.  Those who lean more conservative generally (not always, some will listen) are more set in their ways and are harder for missionaries to talk to or convert.  The younger and more liberal individuals tend to be more open minded and easier to contact...however...I've seen that a LOT of these who would be the key target for missionary work have seen the fruits of these members (by their fruits you shall know them?) and see how unchristian they are.  Because of seeing this, they have been greatly turned off by our own members (though, to be fair, they see the same things happening with the Evangelicals as well).

If you have seen people's reactions earlier this year and late last year towards statements made by the General Authorities regarding the pandemic and our being Christian and showing love and charity by wearing masks and social distancing, as well as comments made towards statements made by the Prophet regarding the election and other statements towards respecting our leaders of government and the processes thereof...you would have seen how angry many members became at our Church leaders.  To think that their anger would suddenly subside would be more surprising than to see them remain angry.

That said, these reactions have not made me happy at all, as they speak of a growing divide within the Church itself between what religion and Christianity suggests in how we should think and act, and how politics is dividing us in the US and in some parts of Europe.

Edited by JohnsonJones

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12 hours ago, Anddenex said:

Here is the thought Elder Renlund provided that is irritating "thought leaders" and those that have succumbed to these thoughts leaders:

The metaphor is a brilliant metaphor relating sickness (virus) to spiritual sickness, and how we should avoid anything in our lives that might threaten the eternal reward of our family. Seems to be a very appropriate analogy in light of scripture. And yet, this section is full of people irritated because  -- the guilty take a truth to be hard. My favorite comment is this, "I doubt that this was an inspired comment and hope you’ll reconsider what a damaging impact this sort of stigmatizing and divisive sentiment has to our congregations."

Quote

Imagine how devastated I would be to bring home a spiritually virulent virus that decreased their faith in Heavenly Father and His plan and in the Savior and His Atonement. Such a metaphorical virus could have eternal consequences.

 

I in no way see how the remark is stigmatizing or divisive to congregations, other than it is encouraging repentance. We are all guilty of sin...but hopefully trying to become better. It is those who have their secret sins that they enjoy to indulge in that are put off by this remark. One of the adversary's best lies about sin is that is really affects no one. "Watching pornography doesn't really hurt my family. As long as no one knows about it everything will stay the same." The truth of the matter is that even if no one discovers your dirty habit, it is offensive to the spirit, and the spirit will not be present in your home at the level that it could be otherwise. Evil speaking of the Lord's anointed has the same effect. Children, and especially young children, can feel this difference in the presence of the Holy Ghost. Why wouldn't we want our homes to be a place where the spirit may dwell, and to be a shelter for them from the outside world? Why shouldn't we do all that we can to throw out sin and to spiritually renovate our homes? If you preach the right things and look good on the outside, but are filthy within, then, as the Savior said, you are no different than a whited sepulchre that is filled with dead men's bones. If you say prayers with your kids at night, but quickly tuck them into bed so you can start binge watching game of thrones (or any other trashy form of disgusting filth) then you are nothing but a hypocrite who will regret your actions in the future, and could unknowingly or unintentionally start your children down a path that will harm them spiritually. Let us give our children the best chance of success we can, and let our light so shine. Our homes should be a place where anyone who enters can feel the presence of the spirit

Lastly, if folks are just upset because he made an analogy to mask wearing then they need to grow up. I am not a fan of mask wearing myself...the difference they make is small. But I do it because I have been asked to. Some may call me a sheep, but I simply trust my church leaders.

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13 hours ago, Anddenex said:

"I doubt that this was an inspired comment..."

First, it's funny that someone thinks they are able to say what is inspired and isn't when it was "personal" revelation to Elder Renlund, which he is sharing. The Lord doesn't work horizontally with revelation or inspiration, so the pride involved in this sentiment is even more sad.

Truth only impacts a congregation harmfully if the congregation is prideful and doesn't want to accept truth.

It really becomes tiring reading comments from people who want to twist words an apostle or prophet will say to further their justification for their decisions.

We as members of the church (and Christians in general) are going to be asked to do some hard things in the future before the Lord's second coming. If you can't do something as simple as home teaching, daily scripture study, personal prayer, or wearing a mask, then how can you possibly expect to follow through on the hard things coming? The sifting is already taking place. In our ward we have unfortunately lost three to four "active" families over the course of the pandemic. Two of them have anywhere from 3 to 6 young children in the household. They are not coming back. They have each given a different excuse, but they all boil down to either laziness and/or a lack of faith.

If people stop practicing their religion over covid-19, just imagine how many families and individuals would leave if we were told to stop watching sports on Sunday, or tithing was to increase to 12-15%, or that plural marriage was to return. The Prophet is a Prophet or he is not...folks need to get on board with a lighted lamp and oil in their vessels, because the ship is stetting sail, and picking and choosing what you think is inspired and what is not will cause you to miss the boat.

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The amusing thing is, that wing of the Church had assumed that since Elder Renlund had a small family, a lawyer wife, and frequently cited to his experience in Africa—that he would be as libertine as they themselves are.  And yet, he clearly isn’t.

It’s a useful lesson.  We all get tempted to assume that this GA or that is “one of us” on any given social, political, or theological controversy; but really, the question is whether we are one of them.  

Edited by Just_A_Guy

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57 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

The amusing thing is, that wing of the Church had assumed that since Elder Renlund had a small family, a lawyer wife, and frequently cited to his experience in Africa—that he would be as libertine as they themselves are.  And yet, he clearly isn’t.

It’s a useful lesson.  We all get tempted to assume that this GA or that is “one of us” on any given social, political, or theological controversy; but really, the question is whether we are one of them.  

I'm most like Gordon B. Hinckley without the polish.

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The Lord said he would sift his church...  We saw this with the whole Prop 8 and rainbow movements... Now we are seeing it hit the other side of the political scale, with the face-masks and shut down mandates.

In the end we will see who is on the Lord's side and who thinks the leaders have fallen because they disagree with them...

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2 hours ago, estradling75 said:

The Lord said he would sift his church...  We saw this with the whole Prop 8 and rainbow movements... Now we are seeing it hit the other side of the political scale, with the face-masks and shut down mandates.

In the end we will see who is on the Lord's side and who thinks the leaders have fallen because they disagree with them...

This is leading me to believe that maybe I've been looking at the "sifting" in the wrong way. 

It isn't necessarily about "agreeing or disagreeing" with what is said.  And maybe it isn't even about obeying or disobeying these "divisive/sifting" topics.  It is really about staying true to the core principles, our testimony of Jesus Christ and the role of the Church in the Plan despite all the other "spiritual noise" we hear all the time. 

I'd reference the concentric circles model of theology.

Edited by Carborendum

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38 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

This is leading me to believe that maybe I've been looking at the "sifting" in the wrong way. 

It isn't necessarily about "agreeing or disagreeing" with what is said.  And maybe it isn't even about obeying or disobeying these "divisive/sifting" topics.  It is really about staying true to the core principles, our testimony of Jesus Christ and the role of the Church in the Plan despite all the other "spiritual noise" we hear all the time. 

I'd reference the concentric circles model of theology.

That seems fair enough.  It shows were the true desires of the heart really are.  Which really is kind of the whole point of this existence anyways.  Of course one can repent and change such desires, but that does not seem to happen that often.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

The amusing thing is, that wing of the Church had assumed that since Elder Renlund had a small family, a lawyer wife, and frequently cited to his experience in Africa—that he would be as libertine as they themselves are.  And yet, he clearly isn’t.

It’s a useful lesson.  We all get tempted to assume that this GA or that is “one of us” on any given social, political, or theological controversy; but really, the question is whether we are one of them.  

The brethren vary in race, background, culture, personality, work vs church experience, family, etc... What makes them the same is their devotion to the Lord. They are one with each other - as a united quorum should be.

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18 minutes ago, dprh said:

I'm not understanding what the issue is. How is the analogy stigmatizing and divisive?

You’re not supposed to talk about good and evil. In certain circles of the Church, there is no right and wrong—only the church’s money, and GAs who aren’t woke enough to use it the way it should be used.  

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On 1/18/2021 at 7:56 PM, Anddenex said:

I was devastated that I infected them with the SARS-CoV-2 virus. While they have recovered, I feel responsible. Imagine how devastated I would be to bring home a spiritually virulent virus that decreased their faith in Heavenly Father and His plan and in the Savior and His Atonement

Did he say this because his family believed they were immune to catching and possibly
dying from a dangerous virus?  Or was there another reason why he felt their faith in
Heavenly Father would have decreased?

Edited by Jonah

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5 hours ago, Jonah said:

Did he say this because his family believed they were immune to catching and possibly
dying from a dangerous virus?  Or was there another reason why he felt their faith in
Heavenly Father would have decreased?

The first question is odd. The second question is already answered in the quote. Read the quote again and you will probably have your answer to both questions through a humble and sincere read of what he said.

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