NeuroTypical

President Nelson vaccinated

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Yep.  New York is giving free burgers and fries with a vaccination, and Colorado Safeways are apparently giving 10% off a grocery order if you get a shot in one of their pharmacies.

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3 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Yep.  New York is giving free burgers and fries with a vaccination, and Colorado Safeways are apparently giving 10% off a grocery order if you get a shot in one of their pharmacies.

It’s sad that science literacy has gotten so bad that we have to bribe people to get a life saving vaccine. 
 

Did anti vaxxers exist during the Polio years?

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12 hours ago, LDSGator said:

It’s sad that science literacy has gotten so bad that we have to bribe people to get a life saving vaccine. 
 

Did anti vaxxers exist during the Polio years?

So people who choose not to get the Covid vaccine are anti vaxxers?

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12 hours ago, LDSGator said:

It’s sad that science literacy has gotten so bad that we have to bribe people to get a life saving vaccine. 

It would help if they didn't give mixed signals.  Why get the vaccine if we are still so contagious that we still have to wear masks?

One way for virtually everyone to get the vaccine would be for a clear message from all authoritative parties:  Get the vaccine and you're good to go.  End of story.  90% of the population would rush to get the vaccine with that condition alone

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34 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

So people who choose not to get the Covid vaccine are anti vaxxers?

I’ve thought about that a ton, actually. I’m not sure, to be honest.

I do feel that just refusing the Covid shot is a mistake, but I agree, just saying no to it does not make you anti-vaxx. 

But, 

If you (generic) refuse to take any vaccine for anything, than you might not be anti-vaxx, I guess, but it’s like saying “I’m not easily offended, but here’s a list of things I’m offended by.”
 

So, while refusing the Covid shot does not make you anti vaxx, every anti-vaxxer refuses the covid shot. The old saying “Not all potheads move on to crack, but almost all crack addicts started with pot” comes to mind. 


So I don’t have an answer. 

Edited by LDSGator

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12 hours ago, LDSGator said:

It’s sad that science literacy has gotten so bad that we have to bribe people to get a life saving vaccine. 
 

Did anti vaxxers exist during the Polio years?

Probably...  However Polio was also different...  Polio was a plague for years, generations even.  After that amount of time, most people witness the deadliness of Polio first hand.

COVID has been around for just over a year.  Most people don't have first hand experiences with COVID, and those that do its normally like a bad flu.  Not really that scary.  While people like to throw around big numbers about COVID's danger, but Humans in general are bad at math, and it is hard to contextualize it.

To put in another way...  Parents wanting to vaccinate against polio was because most of them knew kids that died or other wise be harmed from it.  But for most people COVID is more like the boogie man that everyone tells you is scary and that you should be afraid of.

 

21 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

So people who choose not to get the Covid vaccine are anti vaxxers?

That does seem to be the trend... But that could just be part of the politicization we are seeing.  The if you do not agree with me then you are worst the Hitler mindset.

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7 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

Not really that scary. 

Yeah, I see it differently. One good friend lost his father to it, and @LadyGators boss lost three people in her family to it. So it’s actually “quite scary”. 

No, I don’t think anyone who disagrees with me is Hitler, but @mirkwoods love of pre-Hagar Van Halen might make him Mussolini. 

Thank God (literally in my case, not blaspheming) that my family has all gotten the shot and survived this. 

Edited by LDSGator

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13 hours ago, LDSGator said:

It’s sad that science literacy has gotten so bad that we have to bribe people to get a life saving vaccine. 
Did anti vaxxers exist during the Polio years?

Oh, there's no "gotten so bad" here.  This is humans falling into the same bell curves they've always fallen into. Any reasonably smart epidemiologist that has read up on things will tell you any effort, on any scale, to introduce a vaccine to the general public, will result in a success rate that will fall far short of 100%.  This isn't politicization, or dumbing down, or online misinformation - this is normal human behavior.  We can argue over causes and moral implications and right and wrong all day - but humans are as humans do.

Of course there have been people unwilling to be vaccinated, since the technology was invented.   Every year there's a flu season, with a global effort to educate and vaccinate people.  Every year another idealistic young graduate enters the scene sure that if we just x enough, or y enough, everyone will see the point and get vaccinated.  And every year someone has seen enough of reality to ditch that freckle-faced cluelessness and become cranky and practical about it.

Harsh realities you can either fight against or accept:

- Not everyone is going to care. 
- When they do care, not everyone is going to reach the same conclusions about what is right.

 

I remember a year ago January, having lunch with a bunch of elderly cardiac patients.  They were discussing the scary new plague that was coming our way.  They were all weighing a swift death from sickness, against all the other dozens of health things they were expecting.  And half or more were figuring dying from COVID was a better option than a lot of the other possibilities they were facing.  I mean, nobody was planning on contracting it on purpose, they were just taking a practical approach to the inevitable (and increasingly swift) approach of the end of their lives.  I lost touch with them after that lunch, I'm guessing some of them have declined to get the vaccination.

Is that sad?  I guess.  It's part of the human condition to have a little sad in it.

Edited by NeuroTypical

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5 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Yeah, I see it differently. One good friend lost his father to it, and @LadyGators boss lost three people in her family to it. So it’s actually “quite scary”. 

I think this speaks to @estradling75's point that this is a matter of having only one year of experience with this virus.  You've had this experience as you outlined.  I've personally known 100s (literally about 300 people or more) of people who have had it now.  Not a single death that I've personally known.  But as I mentioned, I've known three people who have had strokes.

I realize both of our experiences are anecdotal.  But the collective experience of the society is what makes up the overall attitude towards the seriousness of the virus.

SIDENOTE: I found out why kim chee tastes bad to me.  I've isolated the "sour/tart" flavor as the culprit.  Anything with a sour/tart flavor has some strange flavor to me now.  I still recognize it as tart.  But instead of being the accent flavor among others that gives it the characteristic mouth-watering scent/flavor, it is like nothing I've ever sensed before.  It's like a 6th flavor that just makes everything taste awful.

I can't eat any fruit because it makes me want to vomit.  No pickles (including kim chee).  It is amazing just how many foods depend on "just a little bit" of sour to provide the proper flavor.  I'm having trouble finding foods I can eat.  Some kinds of nuts are ok (thank heaven for peanuts).  Bread and crackers are ok.  Most vegetables.

It is amazing how fast milk sours in the mouth.  I never noticed it before.  But with this weirdness... I can taste it going sour within 30 minutes.  So, I rinse my mouth frequently.

I've finally lost that last 5 lbs that I've been trying to lose.

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1 minute ago, Carborendum said:

SIDENOTE: I found out why kim chee tastes bad to me.  I've isolated the "sour/tart" flavor as the culprit.  Anything with a sour/tart flavor has some strange flavor to me now.  I still recognize it as tart.  But instead of being the accent flavor among others that gives it the characteristic mouth-watering scent/flavor, it is like nothing I've ever sensed before.  It's like a 6th flavor that just makes everything taste awful.

A buddy in my ward got COVID 8 months ago.  He said the weirdest thing was how his sense of taste and smell had changed, and seemed to not be changing back.  At the start, he was quite worried about it - he had moved into the forest because he loved the smell of pine needles - and now it was really bugging him just to smell the air where he lived.   As months went by, his taste and smell slowly (agonizingly slowly for him) returned to something that approached a new normal.  Last I checked with him, he was ok with the smell of pine needles, it just wasn't his favorite thing any more.

Hang on there @Carborendum.  I predict you will enjoy kim chee again at some point in the future!

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23 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I think this speaks to @estradling75's point that this is a matter of having only one year of experience with this virus.  You've had this experience as you outlined.  I've personally known 100s (literally about 300 people or more) of people who have had it now.  Not a single death that I've personally known.  But as I mentioned, I've known three people who have had strokes.

 

Exactly...   Those people that have had love ones harmed by the virus will respond differently then those people that have "Oh it the flu season" experience.  Given the short time frame most people are going to be in the "Oh it the flu season" category of experience, and they are going to respond like that.  It is human nature to value ones own personal experience more highly then the stories that other tells (aka if you are right where everyone is telling you the boogie man is.... but you never see or otherwise experience him, you are not going to think much of it)

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I am wondering and perhaps @Just_A_Guy's opinion is better suited but if there is an action that favors or awards unique privileges under the Law to those those that have received the so called vaccine.   Could not those denied such privileges but are just as immune (or in some specific cases even more immune) having recovered from COVID-19 have grounds for a Class Action Law Suit against any and all participating in such deliberate and unwarranted discrimination?

 

In addition and as a side note - the state of Utah (and other states) has remained flat over the last few months concerning COVID-19 statistics.  I have speculated that the flat statistics indicates both herd immunity (brought about by the combination of the "vaccine" and recovery from the virus) and a flaw in overly assigning statistics to COVID-19 when such symptoms and deaths could/should be attributed to other causes????

 

I also believe there needs to be a comprehensive study into the origins of COVID-19 including any part played by the USA from research done in North Carolina under the direction of Dr. Fauci and if even of dime of research funding came from US government funding - especially if any funding was granted to China.  However, I am convinced that there are sufficient elements imbedded into our political system within the USA to prevent even the idea of such research which creates a great deal of suspicion of a grand international conspiracy and coverup.  Dr. Fauci seems to be taking on all the attributes of a "Mad Scientist".

 

 

The Traveler

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2 hours ago, LDSGator said:



I do feel that just refusing the Covid shot is a mistake, but I agree, just saying no to it does not make you anti-vaxx. 

 

So, while refusing the Covid shot does not make you anti vaxx, every anti-vaxxer refuses the covid shot.

 

vax.jpg

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43 minutes ago, Traveler said:

 

In addition and as a side note - the state of Utah (and other states) has remained flat over the last few months concerning COVID-19 statistics.  I have speculated that the flat statistics indicates both herd immunity (brought about by the combination of the "vaccine" and recovery from the virus) and a flaw in overly assigning statistics to COVID-19 when such symptoms and deaths could/should be attributed to other causes????

 

Utah is also sitting at ONLY 34% of the population vaccinated.

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1 hour ago, Traveler said:

and a flaw in overly assigning statistics to COVID-19 when such symptoms and deaths could/should be attributed to other causes

B to the I to the NGO.
The 'death is upon all' Covid scare is backfiring and people have had enough of it.
It's political weight/power is drying up in the USA.

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39 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

B to the I to the NGO.
The 'death is upon all' Covid scare is backfiring and people have had enough of it.
It's political weight/power is drying up in the USA.

But, to be fair, I’ve been told I “live in fear” because I wear a mask and have gotten vaccinated.

Which is odd, because even during 2020 my wife and I traveled across the country for a road trip, (hi @NeuroTypical!), went to Disney almost weekly, and out to dinner several times a week.
 

Which, ironically, is far more than what those who tell me I live in fear did!
 

So if that is “living in fear”, then I’m just really confused. 
 

I know you aren’t saying it to me personally @NeedleinA, but it’s what I’ve been told. 

Edited by LDSGator

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4 hours ago, LDSGator said:

But, to be fair, I’ve been told I “live in fear” because I wear a mask and have gotten vaccinated.

I guess maybe you didn't get the memo?

2020 - reasonable people taking precautions during a deadly global pandemic:
The Effect of Using Face-Masks and Other Protection on COVID-19  Transmission - The Wire Science

 

 

 

2021 - Fearful sheeple unable to think for themselves, led by the nose from crisis to crisis:
The Effect of Using Face-Masks and Other Protection on COVID-19  Transmission - The Wire Science

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15 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

I guess maybe you didn't get the memo?

2020 - reasonable people taking precautions during a deadly global pandemic:
The Effect of Using Face-Masks and Other Protection on COVID-19  Transmission - The Wire Science

 

 

 

2021 - Fearful sheeple unable to think for themselves, led by the nose from crisis to crisis:
The Effect of Using Face-Masks and Other Protection on COVID-19  Transmission - The Wire Science

Btw, thanks for the weed. 
😉

Edited by LDSGator

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12 hours ago, Traveler said:

I am wondering and perhaps @Just_A_Guy's opinion is better suited but if there is an action that favors or awards unique privileges under the Law to those those that have received the so called vaccine.   Could not those denied such privileges but are just as immune (or in some specific cases even more immune) having recovered from COVID-19 have grounds for a Class Action Law Suit against any and all participating in such deliberate and unwarranted discrimination?

One could argue that *any* law or policy is discriminatory.  Laws against theft discriminate against kleptomaniacs.  Laws against child molestation discriminate against pedophiles.  Laws appropriating funds for the military discriminate against pacifists.  The child tax credit discriminates against the sterile.  The Homestead Act discriminated against farmers who were disinclined to pull up stakes and head west.  And so on, and so on.

The general state of the law is that unless government is discriminating in a way that adversely affects a “protected class”, the courts will not second-guess legislative actions so long as the legislature can be said to have had a “rational basis” for its action (and except in the Obergefell case, there’s an enormous difference between “no rational basis” and “I disagree with your conclusion”).

Politically, I think we’d be far better off of government did a lot less social engineering.  But constitutionally—as for the sort of lawsuit you describe:  I don’t think it would go anywhere.

Edited by Just_A_Guy

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Times they are a-changing!  I stood in my office at work with no mask!  Only been there half a dozen times since last April.  My work is making the no-mask option available, only for people who are willing to attest they have been vaccinated.  Lying on the form might not get someone fired, but lying on the form and then giving someone covid on site probably would.

Sunday our stake moved to the "make your own health decisions, and be respectful to others that have different opinions and make other decisions" phase. State mandate is still "mask until vaxxed", but in the US there is little to no enforcing that at churches.  So wonderful to see everyone's faces.  Still broadcasting weekly - no end in sight.  One of our stalwart frail older members sat down with a mask on, and stood up after the closing prayer with no mask.  He seemed nervous, but content.

Our passionately zealous 17 yr old lectures us regularly about how we should keep wearing masks even though we've been vaccinated.  She's a couple days away from her 2-week-since-the-2nd-dose mark, and her lectures are losing some of their oomph.

Exchanging happy words with the elderly unmasked greeter at WalMart.  He says "Now I can finally prove to people that yes, I do actually smile.  They never believed me."   It feels weird to walk around grocery stores and order food at restaurants with no mask on.  Feels like I'm doing something wrong.  I have to run through all my facts about why there's no more good reason for me to wear them, other than to follow individual business policies that are swiftly changing.  I expect doctor's appointments and hospitals will be one of the last to drop masks.

At this point, COVID is still demanding to drive slowly in the left lane, so I'm passing on the right.  I still see it out of the corner of my eye - not in the rear view mirror yet.  But soon.

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