President Nelson vaccinated

[Vort]

48 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

My work is making the no-mask option available, only for people who are willing to attest they have been vaccinated.  Lying on the form might not get someone fired, but lying on the form and then giving someone covid on site probably would.

They could never know. HIPAA laws preclude their asking about your vaccination status.

[Carborendum]

1 minute ago, Vort said:

They could never know. HIPAA laws preclude their asking about your vaccination status.

Apparently, this is already being violated.

[Vort]

5 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

6 minutes ago, Vort said:

They could never know. HIPAA laws preclude their asking about your vaccination status.

Apparently, this is already being violated.

To be clear, maybe it's not illegal for them just to ask, "Have you been vaccinated?" But AFAIK, they cannot require documentation or otherwise check up on your word.

[Just_A_Guy]

FWIW—HIPAA stuff is hard.  Even my employer (government attorney’s office) initially wanted each of us to take our temperatures each day we came into the office and record that in a visitor log at the front door.  It took a week or two for someone to point out that this was a big HIPAA no-no.

[LDSGator]

2 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

FWIW—HIPAA stuff is hard.  Even my employer (government attorney’s office) initially wanted each of us to take our temperatures each day we came into the office and record that in a visitor log at the front door.  It took a week or two for someone to point out that this was a big HIPAA no-no.

Is taking your temperature at the door really that much of a problem? It seems like an odd hill to die on. 
 

I don't get it. I remember someone posting once that she didn't love being asked at church when she plans to have babies or get married, and those were considered fine questions to ask strangers (someone please find that thread I'm fairly sure it was here), but taking two seconds to see if someone has a fever is a gross violation of all that is holy and private? 
 

I’m not trying to be funny, I’m honestly confused. 

Edited May 21, 2021 by LDSGator

[Just_A_Guy]

38 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Is taking your temperature at the door really that much of a problem? It seems like an odd hill to die on. 
 

I don't get it. I remember someone posting once that she didn't love being asked at church when she plans to have babies or get married, and those were considered fine questions to ask strangers (someone please find that thread I'm fairly sure it was here), but taking two seconds to see if someone has a fever is a gross violation of all that is holy and private? 
 

I’m not trying to be funny, I’m honestly confused. 

*Shrug* It seemed like no skin off my nose, honestly.  But there are folks who take this stuff a Lot More Seriously than I do.  

[LDSGator]

32 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

*Shrug* It seemed like no skin off my nose, honestly.  But there are folks who take this stuff a Lot More Seriously than I do.  

“So, how is your sex life, Elder Jones?” 
“What??? How dare you ask to take my temperature!!” 
 

Edited May 21, 2021 by LDSGator

[estradling75]

56 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Is taking your temperature at the door really that much of a problem? It seems like an odd hill to die on. 
 

I don't get it. I remember someone posting once that she didn't love being asked at church when she plans to have babies or get married, and those were considered fine questions to ask strangers (someone please find that thread I'm fairly sure it was here), but taking two seconds to see if someone has a fever is a gross violation of all that is holy and private? 
 

I’m not trying to be funny, I’m honestly confused. 

What is a potential consequences of not answering?   If you tell some "That is a personal question and I am not going to answer it."  In both cases the situation becomes a bit awkward.  No one likes an awkward situation, but in Church that is about as far as it goes.  HIPAA  laws are not designed to stop awkward conversations.. But at work its more then that.  Why ask the question unless it affect the ability to work?  If the wrong answer keeps you from being able to work and provide food for you family then it is more then just awkward it becomes compulsive and/or discriminatory and that is what the HIPAA laws (as messy as they are) are suppose to stop.

If you can't work, can't travel, and can't go to the store unless you meet some externally imposed standard.  That is very wrong and oppressive, and generally illegal.

There is a world of difference between telling a person what they need to do... and forcing them to do it... In the context of this thread and current events the resistance being seen is not about the first but about stopping, limiting, and reversing the second.   

[LDSGator]

19 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

But at work its more then that.  Why ask the question unless it affect the ability to work?

Oh, agree totally. And having Covid or transmitting it to me or my employees will certainly affect their and my ability to work...so.....

I do see this issue vastly differently, and that’s fine, agreeing on everything makes this place boring. I still don’t really get it though. 

Edited May 21, 2021 by LDSGator

[Traveler]

1 hour ago, LDSGator said:

Oh, agree totally. And having Covid or transmitting it to me or my employees will certainly affect their and my ability to work...so.....

I do see this issue vastly differently, and that’s fine, agreeing on everything makes this place boring. I still don’t really get it though. 

I do not get it either but at a much more intelligent level????  Why would anyone use up their sick leave when they are sick?  Pluss the last thing we want to do is weaken societies immunity.  Just in case we are invaded by extraterrestrials; ala War of the Worlds. 

 

The Traveler

[NeuroTypical]

6 hours ago, Vort said:

7 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

My work is making the no-mask option available, only for people who are willing to attest they have been vaccinated.  Lying on the form might not get someone fired, but lying on the form and then giving someone covid on site probably would.

They could never know. HIPAA laws preclude their asking about your vaccination status.

I pretty much agree.  The new form and process is basically legal protection for the company.  Unvaccinated Fred goes to work, signs the thing, takes off his mask, coughs on everyone and 2 weeks later 3 other unvaccinated employees test positive.  Everyone sues the company, Fred's positive tests are admitted as evidence, and not because the company asked.  Company shows the paper that Fred signed, shows all the things Fred did against company policy.  Lawsuit defended.

[estradling75]

1 hour ago, LDSGator said:

Oh, agree totally. And having Covid or transmitting it to me or my employees will certainly affect their and my ability to work...so.....

I do see this issue vastly differently, and that’s fine, agreeing on everything makes this place boring. I still don’t really get it though. 

Sure on this forum its fine to disagree... But you are disagreeing with the law...  And the law says you do not have the right to an employee of yours medical status.. If as an employer you break the law, then you are subject to fines, penalties, lawsuits and visits from @mirkwood in his professional capacity.

You don't have to like a law but you should be really really careful before you decide to break it.

Now if an employee of yours comes into work clearly sick or gets sick at work you can tell them to go home and stay home until they are better.

But on the subject of vaccine and the work place.  Exactly who would you be protecting?  Chances are if you wanted the vaccine you have gotten it by now.  Those that don't have it either can't or do not want it.  The cant's are children or the immunodeficient, neither of which are likely  to be your co-workers.  So unless you work with those types (In which case you should already be taking precautions)  the only people that are at risk are the your fellow 'do not wants.'  By choosing not to get the vaccine they choose to take that risk.  

[estradling75]

5 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

I pretty much agree.  The new form and process is basically legal protection for the company.  Unvaccinated Fred goes to work, signs the thing, takes off his mask, coughs on everyone and 2 weeks later 3 other unvaccinated employees test positive.  Everyone sues the company, Fred's positive tests are admitted as evidence, and not because the company asked.  Company shows the paper that Fred signed, shows all the things Fred did against company policy.  Lawsuit defended.

Yeah... Just like the sexual harassment training... Doesn't stop sexual harassment... it just covers the company from lawsuits when it happens

[Vort]

11 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Fred's positive tests are admitted as evidence

Where would Fred's positive tests come from?

[mirkwood]

33 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

 visits from @mirkwood in his professional capacity.

 

Oh give me a professional reason @LDSGator I have a taser cartridge with your name on it.

[mirkwood]

HIPPA only applies to healthcare workers disclosing medical information.  An employer can ask without it being a HIPPA violation.  I also believe an employer can compel you to get and/or show proof of vaccination.  I also think there is a bill being worked on now to prevent that from being legal.

[LDSGator]

4 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

Oh give me a professional reason @LDSGator I have a taser cartridge with your name on it.

Bro, I told you, I’m sorry I made that donation to Nancy Pelosi in your name, but chill! 

[Vort]

26 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

HIPPA only applies to healthcare workers disclosing medical information.

I am sure this is not the case. Any entity that has access to personally identifiable information about health is required by law to secure that information so that it does not leak. It's not limited to health care workers. I'm sure of this, because some years back I worked for a Seattle corporation (Appature—lots of Portal jokes) that sold marketing management software to healthcare entities. My job was to work with the CEO to write up voluminous procedures for information management in order to comply with HIPAA regulations.

I liked that job. Good people, nice company. Kind of boring work, but the CEO was a great guy, and I worked closely with the dev director who hired me. Another great guy. I left it to take a job at a company called MeteorComm, owned in common by the four major US railroads. How appropriate. That job was a train wreck in many senses of the phrase. I left one of my all-time favorite places to work for one of my all-time least favorite. Thanks, mirk, for bringing up such painful memories.

27 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

An employer can ask without it being a HIPPA violation.  I also believe an employer can compel you to get and/or show proof of vaccination.

This may be so. I'm no lawyer.

[mirkwood]

3 hours ago, Vort said:

Thanks, mirk, for bringing up such painful memories.

[Vort]

16 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

MeteorComm in photographic form.

[estradling75]

14 hours ago, mirkwood said:

HIPPA only applies to healthcare workers disclosing medical information.

My personal current, continuing experience runs counter to this claim.  I am in a business that performs surveys for long term care facilities.  We are not healthcare workers we are surveyors.  We get personally identifiable information  in order to contact individuals and those individuals might disclose information to us...  And we are absolutely under HIPPA our yearly audits by the government check to make sure.

14 hours ago, mirkwood said:

 An employer can ask without it being a HIPPA violation.  I also believe an employer can compel you to get and/or show proof of vaccination.  I also think there is a bill being worked on now to prevent that from being legal.

As @Just_A_Guy mentions HIPPA can and is complex and murky.  It is very possible some occupations can while others can't.  For example I can totally see a healthcare worker and or first responders being required to prove things that John Doe programmer would not be.

For example the place where my adult sons work offer gift cards if there employees get vaccinated.  But they don't require that their employees to prove it.  They simply make the claim.  This could be how they are negating the HIPPA waters.  Encouraging and rewarding, but not compelling or requiring

[NeuroTypical]

Heh.  I'm on the medical emergency response team at my work.  When someone gets sick and hurt at work, there's always a crowd of people who want to be helpful but don't know how, and managers who are paid to be in charge (but also don't know how).  A good quick way to do crowd control is to mention HIPPA and tell everyone to give us privacy.  Nobody knows what it is (or that it doesn't really apply here), but they all go away.

[mirkwood]

@estradling75, I guess I used to narrow a term when I said healthcare workers.  I meant anyone involved in those industries with access to medical information, not just doctors and nurses etc.

[Vort]

Working at Appature, I learned that HIPAA compliance was determined using the following handy three-step heuristic:

• Try to comply with HIPAA
• Get sued by someone for a HIPAA violation
• Find out if the courts think your compliance was sufficient to avoid negative consequences for a HIPAA violation

[LDSGator]

33 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Nobody knows what it is (or that it doesn't really apply here), but they all go away

That’s a really nasty description of @Just_A_Guy dude. Uncalled for. 

Edited May 22, 2021 by LDSGator