NeuroTypical

President Nelson vaccinated

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2 hours ago, estradling75 said:

My personal current, continuing experience runs counter to this claim.  I am in a business that performs surveys for long term care facilities.  We are not healthcare workers we are surveyors.

I'm a nurse, and worked in LTC for a few years. Our management (like most I'm sure) would go absolutely bonkers when survey time came and you guys walked into the building. Nurses never got stressed out over you guys being there...we were always too busy to worry about it. It was our managers that always made us nervous from being on edge and paranoid the whole time.

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On 5/21/2021 at 10:12 AM, Vort said:

They could never know. HIPAA laws preclude their asking about your vaccination status.

HIPAA does NOT preclude this, as that is a violation of the First Amendment.

IT PRECLUDES healthcare and other entities covered under 45 CFR § 164.512 from disclosing your health information to other entities as described in 45 CFR § 164.512 in whole or in part.

Relavant CFR link for those interested in reading through it.

There are many things that are prevented from disclosure by HIPAA, and one could say in those instances it is stopping Freedom of Speech, but it is done in the interest to protect one's right to privacy and the government from unwarranted intrusion into your own privacy and property (your health in many ways could also be considered property in a weird sort of way I suppose).

However, you will not be prosecuted for disclosing your own health information, nor will you be prosecuted (unless you are a specific entity as defined by the above that has limitations on such, such as a healthcare worker, employee, or other figure with the ability to see health information or conditions of others or a related arena) from telling others about or for asking about someone else's health.

People cannot be prosecuted for asking about if someone has been sick, someone is in the hospital, or other such actions in general.  If this were so there would be so many people violating the law regularly (imagine a Church meeting, the Bishop finds out that someone may be sick from the Elder's Quorum president, the Bishop inquires about it from the family itself and finds they are sick and ask the Relief Society president to send meals over to them...if HIPAA made asking or talking about others who are sick or injured all those leaders would just have broken the LAW...and it would be a regular occurrence in the Wards around the US!!!).

Now, just because they ask does NOT MEAN you have to answer.  In fact, they cannot force you to give a vaccination status, but they ARE allowed to fire you for reason (or in some states, if they just feel like it as long as it does not pertain to a protected status such as race, religion or other item covered under the law).  Whether they would be allowed to fire you for not disclosing a health condition is normally one of the protected arenas, but as this normally deals MORE with disability rather than vaccination, it could be seen more as a murky area.  Precedent would indicate that they CAN preclude you from entering the premises or even employment for refusal of certain health treatments (certain vaccinations have had legal challenge in the past and in certain industries, vaccinations can be required though normally those industries in the past will give those vaccinations themselves to the incoming parties if no proof of vaccination is given, and an employee cannot be FORCED to disclose their own medical information in this way, though refusal of proof or to be vaccinated can be grounds not to employ that individual).  It has not been applied large scale recently in the way that Covid-19 Vaccinations could be though.  IN addition, schools are one entity that ARE allowed specifically to be allowed to require proof of vaccinations among a few others.

If the current trend of those who are against being vaccinated vs. businesses who have an interest in seeing employees vaccinated continue, it may lead to legal cases which will resolve the issue more clearly in the future, though if we look at precedents of the past I would be inclined to lean toward the idea that businesses will be able to use refusal to be vaccinated in a public healthcare crises as ground to get rid of an employee.  However, as one could also argue that it is not an item which would absolutely preclude someone from being able to do the work, it should not be a factor that is included in the consideration of terminating an employee, it should not be considered a valid reason for termination. 

So, while they can ask, they cannot "require" that you give them the information (in that you always have the right to refuse and not disclose your personal health information). 

 

For those who don't want to wade through the legalize, this is a decent summary.

HIPAA regulations summary from hhs

Quote

The Standards for Privacy of Individually Identifiable Health Information (“Privacy Rule”) establishes, for the first time, a set of national standards for the protection of certain health information. The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (“HHS”) issued the Privacy Rule to implement the requirement of the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (“HIPAA”).1The Privacy Rule standards address the use and disclosure of individuals’ health information—called “protected health information” by organizations subject to the Privacy Rule — called “covered entities,” as well as standards for individuals' privacy rights to understand and control how their health information is used. Within HHS, the Office for Civil Rights (“OCR”) has responsibility for implementing and enforcing the Privacy Rule with respect to voluntary compliance activities and civil money penalties.

 

Edited by JohnsonJones

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On 5/20/2021 at 11:16 AM, NeedleinA said:

Son on his mission out in the happy valley area of Utah says an entire stake is mask free and they have been having meals with members again. 👍

Yesterday was our first Sunday, as an entire Stake, without masks and singing from hymnals. Those blessing/passing the sacrament still wore them. Out of the 200-225 in attendance only about 10 people still wore masks.

Headed on vacation real soon. Normally it is a toss up between California vs. Florida.
Gone are the days of going to CA, Florida it is for foreseeable future. If we are going to put money into a state, it will be one like FL or TX.

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On 5/23/2021 at 7:40 AM, JohnsonJones said:

So, while they can ask, they cannot "require" that you give them the information (in that you always have the right to refuse and not disclose your personal health information). 

"You wanna take off your mask, you must volunteer your vaccination information."

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6 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

"You wanna take off your mask, you must volunteer your vaccination information."

I feel honestly sorry for businesses now. If they demand you wear a mask, the right has a temper tantrum and refuses to shop there. 
 

If they don’t demand you wear a mask, people won’t shop their because they feel unsafe. 
 

 

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2 hours ago, LDSGator said:

If they don’t demand you wear a mask, people won’t shop their because they feel unsafe. 

I see no indication of this in my area.  People are shopping in normal numbers and mostly maskless.

Edited by mirkwood

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I work in high tech, we never see our customers.  Our bosses are struggling to come up with something that works for the greatest amount of our employees.  We're in a county that's around 60/40 right/left.  My boss told me he's expecting the biggest number of hard conversations with his direct reports that he's ever had in his career.   Some will be mad they require masks.  Some will be mad they're relaxing measures.  Some will be mad they're not requiring people to prove vax status before taking off masks.  Some will be mad at having to come back in to the office, others mad that we ever left in the first place. 

 

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19 hours ago, LDSGator said:

I feel honestly sorry for businesses now. If they demand you wear a mask, the right has a temper tantrum and refuses to shop there. 

If they don’t demand you wear a mask, people won’t shop their because they feel unsafe. 

That is so sad.  I've never experience either of these in the Houston area.  It makes me wonder how crazy things have gotten elsewhere.  Here's what I've seen play out many times.

1) Most places have signs up "asking" for people to wear masks.  Others "require" it.  But the enforcement of such requests/requirements vary from place to place.
2) Some places will politely ask patrons to abide by the rules.  Others don't care.
3) If a patron is asked, a few different responses.

a) Oh, sorry, I didn't notice.  Do you have one available?
b) I'm sorry.  But I left mine at home.  I'm only going to be here for one item, and I'll be out of your hair. (It is quite common for the employee to just wave them forward.)
c) Other times, people see the sign, go back to their car and get a mask.
d) Still others have to go back home and get it.  (They do actually go home, get it, and come back -- no temper tantrums).
e) And many people simply wear their masks with or without a sign.

After Abbott signed the EO to lift the mask mandate, I went to a Target.  The gal behind the counter asked very politely,"Hello, sir, would you care for a mask?"

"Oh, are you still doing that?"
"Yes, sir."
(Roll of eyes) "Ok, if you really want me to."
"Here you go, sir.  Thank you for being considerate of others."

Another time (before the mandate was lifted) Home Depot had people dispensing the masks.  But they apparently only had children's masks because it wouldn't fit on my Sputnik-sized noggin.  The employee saw my obvious difficulty.  "It's ok, sir.  Just do the best you can."

"Thanks".  I tried to place one piece over one ear, and hold the other side with my hand.  But when I started picking stuff up, I kinda had to let go of it.

Many people wore it.  Many people did not.  Everyone just respected everyone else's choice and we all went about our business.  I don't see why the rest of the country doesn't do the same.

When our family did not have it, we mostly just went about our business.  When we caught it, we called all around and asked what people's rules were for COVID.  We abided by THEIR rules, just as we did before.  The difference was that prior to contracting it, they needed to go a bit out of their way to ask us to abide by them.  After we contracted it, we became more pro-active in asking what their rules were and abided by them.  I would think this is a pretty reasonable approach.  But some of the reports I hear sound like this would cause some mask-nazi to threaten to kill me for behaving this way.

Edited by Carborendum

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19 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Many people wore it.  Many people did not.  Everyone just respected everyone else's choice and we all went about our business.  I don't see why the rest of the country doesn't do the same.

Same in our area.

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43 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

never experience either of these in the Houston area

I saw a pro masker storm off in a huff because “no one else in church was wearing a mask”. The dude was morbidly obese (descriptive, not pejorative) so I found it grimly ironic. That said, because he was high risk, he probably had to be more careful. 

I haven’t seen tantrums for anti maskers firsthand, but I’ve heard of them happening. 

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So, this past week, I've slowly been getting my taste back to normal.  Yesterday was the first time since this began that I was able to eat a full meal without wanting to throw up.

This morning I had a nice omlette with all the trimmings.  It was yummy.  I haven't had any kim chee because we're all out. :(.

But we'll see about next week.

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