NeuroTypical

President Nelson vaccinated

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47 minutes ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

I'll wait until the vaccine is actually aproved by the FDA. Currently it is only authorized for emergency use. They have skipped all of the testing protocols, making the people the testing group. No, thanks, I am not a lab rat.

Heh.  I was the lab rat, not you.  I and the tens of thousands of other people who participated in the Phase I, Phase II, and Phase III trials who got the trial vaccines 6-9 months ago.  I've had more blood drawn from me since August, than I have in the prior 10 years.  I've been having physicals and answering health questionnaires twice monthly.  When I called to tell them of chills I had from a later non-covid related shot, they so thoroughly debriefed me, I felt like one of the first astronauts going through medical screening after returning to earth.  Of course it's untrue sensationalist nonsense to claim "they have skipped all of the testing protocols".  Where on earth did you ever hear such a silly and obviously false thing, and why did you believe it?

I mean, I can understand being turned off by the rushed process and cut corners these things went through, if you were someone who has a lot of faith and trust in the FDA and it's normal processes.  But dang - that can live perfectly well on it's own, free of all that other untrue jargle.

 

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21 hours ago, mirkwood said:

Or the third group who have never taken flu shots.  That doesn't make for anti-vaxxers, or anti-First Presidency.  It is not as black and white as you are trying to make it.

This IS a forum for faithful members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?  Correct?

Covid-19 is NOT the flu, that is something that has been stated by some who worship another political entity and religion than OUR church, but it is NOT who we follow.

If that's not what we are discussing, why even bring up that type of belief?

It's also not a flu-shot or flu-vaccine idea.  It is probably more related to other Covid viruses (actually it is) which have at times been mistaken for a common cold, but in this case is far more deadly and serious. 

However, that's still not the point.  I quoted the First Presidency. 

Is there a REASON to ignore their statements?

I can understand those who are hesitant due to the emergency nature of the vaccine.  I don't have any answers on that.

However, in regards to most concerns, just as the First Presidency has suggested, talk to your medical personnel about it rather than rely on the rumor mill that people hear. 

Do all you can to bring Covid numbers down in your area.

This is from our last conference directly from our Prophet.  Maybe you don't get the vaccine, but what are WE doing to do ALL we can to bring down the numbers of those getting or dying from Covid?  Are we following their examples and things they have said previously...if not...why not?

What reason do we have for ignoring what they have stated or their examples?

I can understand those who are NOT members of our church or those who are against the Church arguing against it, but as I've told our local leadership, I'm choosing to follow the example of our Prophet and Apostles (or more specifically, I should state I suppose, the First Presidency of the Church).

Edited by JohnsonJones

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15 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

What reason do we have for ignoring what they have stated or their examples?

You already gave a valid reason = 

15 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

I can understand those who are hesitant due to the emergency nature of the vaccine.  I don't have any answers on that.

Church Handbook 38.7.13 states:

Quote

Ultimately, individuals are responsible to make their own decisions about vaccination.

I agree^^^^
 

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On 1/19/2021 at 4:24 PM, NeuroTypical said:

Thank you for drawing my attention to what President Nelson decided to do........

I am not yet a Latter day Saint, I am a Messianic Gentile, and when I listen to near death experiencer Rabbi Alon Anava I do not

have the level of wisdom and understanding to hear any significant errors.

I write a lot and I would love to submit an explanation to President Nelson entitled "Unified Field Theory of Modern  World Problems" based on

Latter day Saints assisting hundreds and thousands if not tens of thousands of Israelis to become employed in reality film project where they 

star as themselves!

I linked an article on President Nelson being vaccinated into this discussion on another forum......

I would like to meet with President Nelson and / or any other leaders in the LDS church willing to tape my explanation for this idea.  I attend the

New Glasgow, N.S., Canada ward when I can..... but I make it a priority to take my wife to her Pentecostal church most of the time.  

 

"Is Israel facing the biggest Passover since 31 C.E?"

http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/is-israel-facing-the-biggest-passover-since-31-c-e.585877/

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4 hours ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

I'll wait until the vaccine is actually aproved by the FDA. Currently it is only authorized for emergency use. They have skipped all of the testing protocols, making the people the testing group. No, thanks, I am not a lab rat.

I am on a very similar page to you at this time for a number of reasons!!!!!

 

http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/is-israel-facing-the-biggest-passover-since-31-c-e.585877/#post-1072576198

"Is Israel facing the biggest Passover since 31 C.E?"

 

 
Quote
OK........ although I personally am on a somewhat different page than President Russell Nelson on this particular issue.........
I want to wait as long as I can before I take a vaccine. ......
 
1. One of the reasons for this is that I feel the vaccines were rushed........
2.  Another reason is that my province Nova Scotia, has an astonishingly low incidence of Covid 19 infection
3.  I  feel a need to be in solidarity with those who DID NOT TAKE THE VACCINE somewhat like how the people of Denmark all put on yellow stars of David in solidarity with Jewish citizens of Denmark during the time of The Holocaust.  I would like to be in solidarity with Christians and Jews and others who DO NOT want to take any of the existing vaccines at this time for ethical reasons.  
and in another six months to a year information will come out regarding which vaccines have fewer negative side effects.
4.  I am taking vitiman C, D3, zinc and MSM and I feel that I am unlikely to get very sick even if I did somehow get infected with Covid 19
 
But....... I FEEL THAT LATTER DAY SAINTS ARE SERIOUSLY  set up to assist all eight million Israelis to look at their response to Covid 19 as the ideal set up for a dramatic increase in investment by Latter day Saints in the nation of Israel.  (Especially in the Israeli film industry)!
 
 
 
DennisTate said: 
My recommendation is:

[IMG]

On pages 137 to 170 in this book.....the number one cause of anti-Semitism by Christians over these past eighteen centuries is addressed.........(brilliantly I might add)....... and it could be argued that the author also address anti- Semitic activity by Muslims........ over the past twelve centuries.........

Here is a good example of the type of literature that can win the Nobel Prize for Literature:

I admit that I may be biased.... but I do believe that Dr. MacDonald has even Winston beat in this category...... because three to five centuries from now more humans will be aware of what Dr. MacDonald wrote than will be aware of what Winston did.

https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/literature/1953/summary/
 


This other discussion explains why I would be so impressed by the Bruce F. MacDonald Ph. D. near death experience whereas ninety five percent of Christians might find it offensive?!
Edited by DennisTate
add quotation .... and a link to a related discussion....

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3 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

 Do all you can to bring Covid numbers down in your area.

This can be interpreted in a number of different ways.  Not once did President Nelson say to where masks or to get vaccinated.  Basically, if members would just stay home when their sick, practice basic hygiene, and sneeze into their arm, that would help bring the numbers of any virus down.  It is surprising, though, how many people don’t do that.

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4 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

This IS a forum for faithful members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?  Correct?

Self righteous much?

 

Quote

Is there a REASON to ignore their statements?

 

What reason do we have for ignoring what they have stated or their examples?

Anyway, @NeedleinA said this:

 

3 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

You already gave a valid reason = 

Church Handbook 38.7.13 states:

I agree^^^^
 

 

This.  This x1000.

 

In addition Pres. Nelson said this:

"Individuals are responsible to make their own decisions about vaccination. In making that determination, we recommend that, where possible, they counsel with a competent medical professional about their personal circumstances and needs."

 

You might want to take a long hard look at yourself in the mirror JJ.  There is no vaccine mandate from the LDS church.  They have made that QUITE clear if you only take the time to look.

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19 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

Heh.  I was the lab rat, not you.  I and the tens of thousands of other people who participated in the Phase I, Phase II, and Phase III trials who got the trial vaccines 6-9 months ago.  I've had more blood drawn from me since August, than I have in the prior 10 years.

I apparently have a medical reason to NOT receive the vaccine.  I have unusual vein structure.  While it is still possible to give blood, the technician needs to be particularly skilled in order to get it to work.  Otherwise, I end up getting stuck several times in both arms before they get it right.  You can't do that every few weeks or else the blood vessels collapse.

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We had our first Stake Conference since the pandemic this weekend.  Elder Maxsimo Torres of the 70 came.  In the adult session he told us we need to do everything in our power to open up the temples by curbing the spread of COVID-19, including wearing masks in public and getting the vaccine if physically able. 

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39 minutes ago, dprh said:

by curbing the spread of COVID-19

Curious if he gave an actual metric that would allow us to fully open up the temples?
I realize 'curbing' might be your word OR his... either way it is incredibly vague and doesn't allow us to reach success, since we don't know the actual goal.
Does the world need to be 50% vaccinated, 80%, 100%?
Do Covid cases need to be down to 'X' first? If so, what is 'X'?

Dr. Facui keeps dancing around this subject too.
Rep. Jim Jordan asks Facui, "When is the time?"
Spoiler alert: Facui can't/won't give him an answer besides, "low enough".
What does "low enough" even mean?

 

Edited by NeedleinA

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1 minute ago, NeedleinA said:

Curious if he gave an actual metric that would allow us to fully open up the temples?
I realize 'curbing' might be your word OR his... either way it is incredibly vague and doesn't allow us reach success, since we don't know the actual goal.
Does the world need to be 50% vaccinated, 80%, 100%?
Do Covid cases need to be down to 'X' first? If so, what is 'X'?

Dr. Facui keeps dancing around this subject too.
Rep. Jim Jordan asks Facui, "When is the time?"
Spoiler alert: Facui can't/won't give him an answer besides, "low enough".
What does "low enough" even mean?

 

Sorry for being vague.

He talked about getting the numbers to a point where state and local governments will remove the restrictions that keep the temples closed.  

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26 minutes ago, dprh said:

Sorry for being vague.

He talked about getting the numbers to a point where state and local governments will remove the restrictions that keep the temples closed.  

Technically some temples are already open, in very limited capacity.
We have temples in multiple countries and states. Each will have their own restrictions, some may overlap. Since at least the US Govt. refuses to give us any defined metrics, other than "low enough" what are we to do? What happens if every single LDS member was vaccinated right now, are those local and state govts. going to allow us to open fully?

Unfortunately, I don't believe that even if the entire planet was vaccinated against 'wild-type Covid 19' that they would allow us to go back to full capacity.
Next we will have to wait until the entire world is vaccinated for "variant A" of wild type.
Then "variant B". So on and so on. Fauci already said he still wears double masks, after having been vaccinated, because of concerns about variants now.

Govt. has us right where they want us, they have become the new religion. Fauci has passed Sainthood for many already.
What incentive do they have to give up even a single ounce of their power right now? None.
As long as "we the people" sit around shaking in our boots in silence, we get what we deserve at this point.

Edited by NeedleinA

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33 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

Technically some temples are already open, in very limited capacity.
We have temples in multiple countries and states. Each will have their own restrictions, some may overlap. Since at least the US Govt. refuses to give us any defined metrics, other than "low enough" what are we to do?

I can't speak for everyone, but I can control what I'll do. What my leaders (ecclesiastical) have asked me to do.  Socially distance, mask up, and get vaccinated.

 

33 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

What happens if every single LDS member was vaccinated right now, are those local and state govts. going to allow us to open fully?

We'll see if it comes to that.  No point in playing the "What if" game.

34 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

Unfortunately, I don't believe that even if the entire planet was vaccinated against 'wild-type Covid 19' that they would allow us to go back to full capacity.
Next we will have to wait until the entire world is vaccinated for "variant A" of wild type.
Then "variant B". So on and so on. Fauci already said he still wears double masks, after having been vaccinated, because of concerns about variants now.

Govt. has us right where they want us, they have become the new religion. Fauci has passed Sainthood for many already.
What incentive do they have to give up even a single ounce of their power right now? None.
As long as "we the people" sit around shaking in our boots in silence, we get what we deserve at this point.

I don't think most in the gov't are looking for power for power's sake.  I think they want to get back to 'normal.' as safely as possible.

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3 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I apparently have a medical reason to NOT receive the vaccine.  I have unusual vein structure.  While it is still possible to give blood, the technician needs to be particularly skilled in order to get it to work.  Otherwise, I end up getting stuck several times in both arms before they get it right.  You can't do that every few weeks or else the blood vessels collapse.

I see you say 'apparently', does that mean someone told you this?  Who told you that an odd vein structure meant you shouldn't receive a vaccine via an intramuscular shot into your bicep?  

(In plain English - they stick the needle into your bicep, not your veins.)

 

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Just now, NeuroTypical said:

I see you say 'apparently', does that mean someone told you this?  Who told you that an odd vein structure meant you shouldn't receive a vaccine via an intramuscular shot into your bicep?  

(In plain English - they stick the needle into your bicep, not your veins.)

 

No, not the vaccine.  The fact that in this preliminary stage (what I gathered from what you said about the quantities of blood being drawn from you) receiving the vaccine means you are also required to have huge quantities of blood being drawn at frequent intervals.  It is THAT part that I can't do.

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10 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

No, not the vaccine.  The fact that in this preliminary stage (what I gathered from what you said about the quantities of blood being drawn from you) receiving the vaccine means you are also required to have huge quantities of blood being drawn at frequent intervals.  It is THAT part that I can't do.

I think you are confusing @NeuroTypical being in a medical trial for the vaccine.  (which makes him a very special snow flake :))  And the rest of us rubes who only get the injections because we are not in a trial.

 

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13 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

I think you are confusing @NeuroTypical being in a medical trial for the vaccine.  (which makes him a very special snow flake :))  And the rest of us rubes who only get the injections because we are not in a trial.

Sequence of posts:

  • Emmanuel Goldstein commented that the vaccines have not actually been "approved".  They're for emergency use only.  Thus making us all guinea pigs.
  • NT said that he was a guinea pig (i.e. had received the "unapproved" vaccine) and described that process as including a LOT of blood being drawn.
  • I said, therefore, I cannot get the vaccine (for trial on guinea pigs) because I cannot have that much blood drawn from me.

If I misinterpreted what anyone said, please clarify.  But I assumed that what these two individuals wrote were correct.  If what they said was not correct, then my conclusion would likewise be incorrect.

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23 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

I think you are confusing @NeuroTypical being in a medical trial for the vaccine.  (which makes him a very special snow flake :))  And the rest of us rubes who only get the injections because we are not in a trial.

 

I wish I got to testify at @NeuroTypical's trial.  That dude would go away for a looooonnngggg time.

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46 minutes ago, dprh said:

I don't think most in the gov't are looking for power for power's sake.

It doesn't need to be most, it only needs to be the ones with the actual power.

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6 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Sequence of posts:

  • Emmanuel Goldstein commented that the vaccines have not actually been "approved".  They're for emergency use only.  Thus making us all guinea pigs.
  • NT said that he was a guinea pig (i.e. had received the "unapproved" vaccine) and described that process as including a LOT of blood being drawn.
  • I said, therefore, I cannot get the vaccine (for trial on guinea pigs) because I cannot have that much blood drawn from me.

If I misinterpreted what anyone said, please clarify.  But I assumed that what these two individuals wrote were correct.  If what they said was not correct, then my conclusion would likewise be incorrect.

Nope..  At least not that I am aware of...

The simple fact is vaccines have been incredibly rushed, which is what some people have a problem with. 

The vaccines have not been "approved."  NT is part of a trial to get one of the vaccines "approved" he is still having his blood drawn regularly.  The vaccines are being distributed to the masses.  These are the simple facts.

People see this mess and who are understandably hesitant to take the vaccines are being told they are apostate.  

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1 hour ago, Carborendum said:
1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

I see you say 'apparently', does that mean someone told you this?  Who told you that an odd vein structure meant you shouldn't receive a vaccine via an intramuscular shot into your bicep?  

No, not the vaccine.  The fact that in this preliminary stage (what I gathered from what you said about the quantities of blood being drawn from you) receiving the vaccine means you are also required to have huge quantities of blood being drawn at frequent intervals.  It is THAT part that I can't do.

 

53 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Sequence of posts:

  • Emmanuel Goldstein commented that the vaccines have not actually been "approved".  They're for emergency use only.  Thus making us all guinea pigs.
  • NT said that he was a guinea pig (i.e. had received the "unapproved" vaccine) and described that process as including a LOT of blood being drawn.
  • I said, therefore, I cannot get the vaccine (for trial on guinea pigs) because I cannot have that much blood drawn from me.

Clarification: The "trial for guinea pigs" phases for COVID vaccines made by Moderna, Pfizer, Johnson and Johnson, Astra Zeneca, and any other in current use, is largely complete.  It started way last year.  I started my trial vaccines back in August 2020.  @Emmanuel Goldstein seemed to be unaware of the fact that all of these vaccines had already successfully completed phase I, II, and III trials.  He seems to be under the mistaken belief that the public vaccination effort underway on planet earth right now, is being run with untested, unapproved, trial vaccines, and everyone who gets the vaccine is a guinea pig.  He's wrong.

When Carb, (or any other member of the general public) goes and gets the vaccine, they give you a card, and maybe an appointment for a second dose.  That's it for you, and any other member of the general public.  No blood work, no ongoing questionnaires, no physicals.

When I got the vaccine last August, as a phase III trial volunteer, I signed up for a 5 year study where I fill out questionnaires every other week, get a physical with blood draws every couple months.  All that jargle is only for people who join a study.

Edited by NeuroTypical

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