NeuroTypical

President Nelson vaccinated

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, dprh said:

I don't think most in the gov't are looking for power for power's sake.  I think they want to get back to 'normal.' as safely as possible.

Really? Seriously...really??? Do you not see all of the unnecessary power grabs currently taking place, let alone over the past decade? We learn form scripture that when men get a little bit of authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion. Is that counsel outdated? Are we currently so much wiser and better than persons 200 years ago? I think most of the national and state leaders the world over are corrupt in one way or another. And, those who aren't yet will be if they remain "in power" long enough.

Edited by scottyg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Look folks, it doesn't matter which side of the fence you fall on. Government is corrupt, period. I do not see how anyone can be a true student of the scriptures and think otherwise. "Government" will be on opposite side of the Lord and His servants when He comes, and He is coming. Prophecy after prophecy has been fulfilled...there really aren't that many left before the time of the second coming.

I appreciated many of Donald Trump's policies, but he is in no way a stalwart example of a good and just man, and not the kind of person you want to be a role model. Much of his crooked past is known, and much is not. You cannot stay in business as long as he has without doing some shady deals behind the scenes. That being said, it is harder to stay in politics for a long time without getting your hands dirty than any business I know of. Joe Biden is an evil man, and those who are working with him are slimier and more poisonous than any serpent. Put your trust in them, and you will fall.

Fauci knows no more about this virus than any other physician. He is not in his position because he is better or smarter than others. He is not the only one who gets data on studies being done. He just has a bigger platform with government leaders choosing to take his advice over that of others. Medical professionals are all learning at the same time, and can move the goalposts whenever and wherever they want to fit various narratives. They are people too, and can have agendas too. The vast majority of doctors care about their patients first and foremost. But there is no reason to believe that all are void of corruption. I work in healthcare and know two who work up at the university that are just in the profession for the money and notoriety gained from research...they have told me so themselves, and aren't ashamed of it. Trust in the Lord and His Prophet...not some cooks who claim to be the gods of medicine and social behavior in our country today. "If we are to have any hope of sifting through the myriad of voices and the philosophies of men that attack truth, we must learn to receive revelation. ...in coming days, it will not be possible to survive spiritually without the guiding, directing, comforting, and constant influence of the Holy Ghost."

If the church strongly urges something, then it must be important, so take the time and effort to pray about it with real intent. If the answer you receive is no, then it is no, and if it is yes, then it is yes. Stop being so sensitive because someone gets a different answer than you. The church doesn't tell everyone to get it because they know that the answer will be different for everyone; and that is between you and the Lord. For many (if not most) getting the shot will likely be the proper course of action, and that's okay. But if someone you know doesn't get it, and you disagree with their decision, you have no reason or foundation to cast stones.

Edited by scottyg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My prediction of a slow return to normal, with everyone basically forgetting about COVID by end of summer, seems to be marching along happily.  For example: 10 weeks ago, Colorado changed their dial, and overnight most of the state went from orange/red, to yellow/blue.  1 week ago, Colorado ditched the whole dial thing altogether (except for individual counties that want to keep it).  There's no mandatory mask order in effect for churches in Colorado any more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

'@Emmanuel Goldstein seemed to be unaware of the fact that all of these vaccines had already successfully completed phase I, II, and III trials.  He seems to be under the mistaken belief that the public vaccination effort underway on planet earth right now, is being run with untested, unapproved, trial vaccines, and everyone who gets the vaccine is a guinea pig.  He's wrong.'

I may have over stated my opinion and should have said, They have skipped too many of the testing protocols for me to feel comfortable with getting the shot. I know the Prophet has received the shot, but please keep in mind that he is in the age group that is the most in danger from this virus. I believe I have the right to choose for myself whether to receive the so called vaccine and I choose to not do it. My wife has gotten and two of my adult children have too.

I feel it is not what I need or have to do at this time. thank you very much. I am frankly very concerned about the potential long term risks compared to the short term, possible, benefits. Also, there is a lot of shaming going on right now in our society regarding the shot and masks, and I think people should learn to mind their own business.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

Also, there is a lot of shaming going on right now in our society regarding the shot and masks

Only the shaming of people who deserve to be shamed. That's good shaming. Go Left!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, mirkwood said:

Self righteous much?

 

Anyway, @NeedleinA said this:

 

 

This.  This x1000.

 

In addition Pres. Nelson said this:

"Individuals are responsible to make their own decisions about vaccination. In making that determination, we recommend that, where possible, they counsel with a competent medical professional about their personal circumstances and needs."

 

You might want to take a long hard look at yourself in the mirror JJ.  There is no vaccine mandate from the LDS church.  They have made that QUITE clear if you only take the time to look.

No there is no vaccine mandate from the church.  There is no mandate to repent or follow the Word of Chastity, but we are HIGHLY encouraged to do so, and they often URGE us to repent or otherwise.

Look at the wording in the Proclamation to the Family and other statements from the First Presidency that we see as information from them.  Rarely do they command, but they do urge, request, believe and feel.

Posted the link previously, but this is from the First Presidency.  Do you disagree with them?

Quote

As appropriate opportunities become available, the Church urges its members, employees and missionaries to be good global citizens and help quell the pandemic by safeguarding themselves and others through immunization.  Individuals are responsible to make their own decisions about vaccination. In making that determination, we recommend that, where possible, they counsel with a competent medical professional about their personal circumstances and needs.

HAVE you counseled with your doctor?

IF not, then why are you not following the First Presidency.

Look, this is NOT a hard thing to actually follow.  It's not like Moses asking us to look at a staff to live, it's not Joshua asking us to march around Jericho silently, it's not Samuel asking us to kill every living thing instead of sacrifice. 

If you've counseled with your doctor, well, interesting doctor, but make it clear then that your doctor said that you should not do so.

People always say, follow the prophet.

Except, of course, it seems, if you disagree with him?

That's why I verified if this is a forum for members, because there are MANY statements here in the past few months that RAIL directly against the First Presidency.  I actually asked for help here against local authorities that were having the same type of atttitude.  That post was erased...BUT

The First Presidency has come out in support of what I've asked.  I've actually QUOTED their statements...it is NOT VAGUE.

IF we want to go further, an Apostle of the Lord...SPEAKING AS AN APOSLTLE (not as a man) stated this... (Elder Renlund)

Quote

As it relates to this pandemic, especially in temples, that means social distancing, wearing a mask and not gathering in large groups,” he said. “These steps demonstrate our love for others, and provide us a measure of protection. Wearing a face covering is a sign of Christlike love for our brothers and sisters. COVID-19 is serious. Its consequences are not yet fully understood.”

Elder Renlund Church Masks Covit 19 Coronavirus Christlike Love Pandemic

 

I am verifying that this is a forum for faithful members because a LOT of the stuff these days sound like those who are directly trying to argue against the counsel of the First Presidency and the Twelve. 

I can understand some, but I defending the words of the Current Prophet and Apostles here is not something I can even see as necessary.  People are letting politics flavor their view of the church and the prophet and apostles (many of the facebook posts from supposed "members" that criticize and try to toss out the words of the First Presidency and apostles express the same sentiments I've read here).  I'm unsure of why people are so opposed to the words they have stated. 

It's not vague, it's actually been pretty specific.  If we just include last conference, do ALL you can to prevent the spread of Covid-19 and get the numbers down.  You should then ask...what does that entail?  Not...how does it not apply to me?

If we include the words of the First Presidency, it is GET IMMUNIZED, though you have agency but before deciding strictly on your own based on your own personal opinion, refer to COMPETENT (I don't think that word was just put in there) Medical Proffesionals about your situation and needs.

If we include the Apostles statements, not only do we get immunized unless counseled not to by a compentent medical professional, we should also wear masks and social distance, if for no other reason than we love our fellow man.

I have been vaccinated.  I STILL wear a mask and social distance due to trying to follow the advice of the  Apostle.

I imagine though, that there are many here that would be like our local authorities who have torn down these statements from the pulpit and openly mocked them to the congregation if they had the power...which is strange to say the least from a forum that is composed of members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Edited by JohnsonJones
Added link for back verification of those who wish to on the quoted statement, also added a quote once again from the First Presidency

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

shaming lemmings for refusing to jump off the cliff is not 'good shaming.' It is called coercion and comes from beneath.

I'm not trying to shame anyone, but I DO think that we should not be trying to tear down the words of the prophet, First Presidency, or the Apostles so blatantly.

I can understand your concerns, and if that is what you feel is right, and you have counseled with you doctor, then you must do what you feel is right personally.  However, there are those who are trying to persuade others not to get the vaccination against the advice of the General Authorities who lead the Church, and I'm not comfortable with that.

Logical discussion of fears or otherwise I think is okay (as you have done, and makes an interesting discussion, because, you know...you are right.  It is an emergency thing, though with as many shots as have been given out it's gotten far more testing done than almost any other vaccine before public release at this point...but we still don't know if there are long term side effects that could be caused by it), but blatantly just saying not to because one just doesn't agree with it, or thinks it's a flu, or other ideas is trying to find a way around the words of the Leadership of the Church and disagree with them.  I read enough of it on facebook with people calling the leadership false and many other items that seeing it here does not make me feel any confidence in what is happening with many of the membership at large right now.

A prime example is President Nelson's statement in the Last Conference.  It should not be...how can we avoid various measures to bring down COVID-19, but WHAT ARE WE DOING to bring the  numbers down?

Are we simply going about normal life and hoping it goes away, or are we actively trying to get the numbers to a point where the temples can be open to all members with temple recommends as they used to be before the pandemic?

I think that's the difference.  Instead of making excuses of why we cannot do anything to follow the prophet's advice, instead perhaps talk about what WE are doing actively to follow those words he delivered.  One does not necessarily have to be vaccinated, but if they are not, what else are they doing to actually follow his counsel and open the temples back up full time to all worthy members?

Edited by JohnsonJones

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I apparently have a medical reason to NOT receive the vaccine.  I have unusual vein structure.  While it is still possible to give blood, the technician needs to be particularly skilled in order to get it to work.  Otherwise, I end up getting stuck several times in both arms before they get it right.  You can't do that every few weeks or else the blood vessels collapse.

I'm not sure if this is vaccine dependent or not.  When they gave me the vaccine it went into the muscle, not a blood vessel.  I got the Moderna version, my wife got the Pfizer version.

From what I've heard, there is some concern with the J&J version right now.  Interestingly enough I was going through surgery the same week I got my second shot.  However, I don't have a strange vein structure so what ever your medical doctor has told you it probably is best to follow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

...I think people should learn to mind their own business.

I agree.  My perspective may be a bit different on what our "own business" is, or it may not.  I figure last year, with the unknowns, and the lack of vaccine, our "own business" included what other people were putting on their faces, because we're all trying to live life as part of a society.   Now, with most of the unknowns gone, and a free vaccine for anyone who wants one, our "own business" basically returns back to pre-covid stewardships.

In other words, back when the life of your grandma in a nursing home was at risk, impacted by the whims of the surrounding population and the positive test rate, I was supportive of public health orders and whatnot.  To an arguable extent, her life was in the hands of strangers.  Now that Grandma can chose to get a shot or not, the choice is hers again.  Time to end the mandatory this-and-that, and the govt should return to it's appropriate role of making good information available, including the urgings and opinions of experts in the field, and leave the rest of us alone.

I no longer give a crap about positive test results and trends.  My opinion on things now is based on death rates and trends, and my loud advocating opinion is based on my own county's numbers - which are about as close to 0 as can be:

image.png.fc3827f0e4c3e9bcd97896887d0add5f.png

 

Edited by NeuroTypical

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, scottyg said:

Really? Seriously...really??? Do you not see all of the unnecessary power grabs currently taking place, let alone over the past decade? We learn form scripture that when men get a little bit of authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion. Is that counsel outdated? Are we currently so much wiser and better than persons 200 years ago? I think most of the national and state leaders the world over are corrupt in one way or another. And, those who aren't yet will be if they remain "in power" long enough.

Yes. Yes. No. You didn't quote the scripture quite correctly.  It is the nature and disposition of almost all men, but doesn't mean they will.  No.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's my issue with counseling with your doctor:

While your doctor probably knows quite a bit, your doctor probably has not extensively studied the vaccine as much as those more involved have. It's a bit odd to put someone on the spot like that in hopes of seeking some grand excuse of being special.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, dprh said:

Yes. Yes. No. You didn't quote the scripture quite correctly.  It is the nature and disposition of almost all men, but doesn't mean they will.  No.

I know. It wasn't meant to be a direct quote. I said that I think most of the leaders are corrupt...that leaves room for those who currently are not. However, that number is small.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Backroads said:

Here's my issue with counseling with your doctor:

While your doctor probably knows quite a bit, your doctor probably has not extensively studied the vaccine as much as those more involved have. It's a bit odd to put someone on the spot like that in hopes of seeking some grand excuse of being special.

Yep, happens all the time. Doctors get annoyed when people come into their offices asking for prescriptions to new drugs that they don't even know about. So many people see commercials about new pharmaceuticals and rush in to get them before those companies can even get the literature out to all of the MD's. And, with the hundreds of new therapies and drugs coming out every year, even if your MD gets the information before you do, it takes them a fair amount of time to get caught up on everything, because the bulk of their day is spent actually providing treatment, not studying new drugs or reviewing research studies. Many do that kind of thing on their own time after their kids are in bed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

There is no mandate to repent or follow the Word of Chastity, but we are HIGHLY encouraged to do so, and they often URGE us to repent or otherwise.

Perhaps I am nit-picking here, because I am sure I know what you are saying and what you mean. But, getting a shot is in a completely different ballpark than actual commandments. Repentance, the Word of Wisdom, the Law of Chastity, etc...the Lord makes it quite clear that those things are mandates...hence naming them commandments. Committing adultery or distributing meth can subject you to church discipline. Refusing to get the shot will not. If you do not follow the commandments, and repent, you will reap the unfortunate consequences. Again, maybe nit-picking, but there is a difference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, scottyg said:

I know. It wasn't meant to be a direct quote. I said that I think most of the leaders are corrupt...that leaves room for those who currently are not. However, that number is small.

12 We believe in being asubject to bkings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in cobeying, honoring, and sustaining the dlaw.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/pgp/a-of-f/1?lang=eng

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, dprh said:

12 We believe in being asubject to bkings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in cobeying, honoring, and sustaining the dlaw.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/pgp/a-of-f/1?lang=eng

I agree with this. Care to elaborate your reason for posting it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

1:30 minutes of mask bliss. Thanks to 60 minutes for leaving this video up.

 

Isn't this guy now advocating (or has been advocating) to wear two face masks for protection? It almost feels like it was a test just to see how many people they could get to blindly follow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, dprh said:

12 We believe in being asubject

Elder Oaks shared:

Quote

President Ezra Taft Benson expressed the fundamental principle of popular sovereignty when he said, “We [the people] are superior to government and should remain master over it, not the other way around.”13 ...

...In his address on the U.S. Constitution, President Ezra Taft Benson quoted this important observation by John Adams, the second president of the United States:

“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”18

I also keep in mind, D&C 134:11

Quote

11 We believe that men should appeal to the civil law for redress of all wrongs and grievances, where personal abuse is inflicted or the right of property or character infringed, where such laws exist as will protect the same; but we believe that all men are justified in defending themselves, their friends, and property, and the government, from the unlawful assaults and encroachments of all persons in times of exigency, where immediate appeal cannot be made to the laws, and relief afforded.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

Isn't this guy now advocating (or has been advocating) to wear two face masks for protection? It almost feels like it was a test just to see how many people they could get to blindly follow.

Yes, he certainly is.
2020 he says:

Quote

People should not be walking around with masks...wearing a mask might make people feel a little bit better and it might even block a droplet BUT it is not providing the perfect protection that people think that it is...

2021
After the sheeple have been conditioned to blindly follow he wants us to wear two masks now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

I was responding to Vort.

I suspect you missed the intent of what I posted. Or maybe not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now