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Jonah

The kingdom of heaven

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Would someone clarify this section.

D&C 10:55

"Therefore, whosoever belongeth to my church need not fear, for such shall inherit 
the kingdom of heaven
".

I found this definition of the kingdom of God / kingdom of Heaven.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/gs/kingdom-of-god-or-kingdom-of-heaven?lang=eng

The kingdom of God on earth is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints 
(D&C 65). The purpose of the Church is to prepare its members to live forever in 
the celestial kingdom or kingdom of heaven. However, the scriptures sometimes 
call the Church the kingdom of heaven, meaning that the Church is the kingdom of 
heaven on earth
.

I saw from another teaching that the earth is destined to become the everlasting 
residence of its inhabitants who gain the glory of the celestial kingdom.
 
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/doctrines-of-the-gospel-student-manual/37-millennium-and-glorification-of-the-earth?lang=eng

Does this mean those in the telestial and terrestrial kingdom will be not viewed 
as members of Christ's church because their future home is not earth?

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18 hours ago, Jonah said:

Would someone clarify this section.

D&C 10:55

"Therefore, whosoever belongeth to my church need not fear, for such shall inherit 
the kingdom of heaven
".

I found this definition of the kingdom of God / kingdom of Heaven.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/gs/kingdom-of-god-or-kingdom-of-heaven?lang=eng

The kingdom of God on earth is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints 
(D&C 65). The purpose of the Church is to prepare its members to live forever in 
the celestial kingdom or kingdom of heaven. However, the scriptures sometimes 
call the Church the kingdom of heaven, meaning that the Church is the kingdom of 
heaven on earth
.

I saw from another teaching that the earth is destined to become the everlasting 
residence of its inhabitants who gain the glory of the celestial kingdom.
 
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/doctrines-of-the-gospel-student-manual/37-millennium-and-glorification-of-the-earth?lang=eng

Does this mean those in the telestial and terrestrial kingdom will be not viewed 
as members of Christ's church because their future home is not earth?

I guess that's an interesting question.  Do you think we will have churches in the afterlife?

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I'm not sure what you mean by "members of Christ's church." There are many who are currently technically members of the Church because they've been baptized but who chose not to live the gospel so being a member does not necessarily imply a certain degree of righteousness. So while certain ordinances do need to be performed for all those who will eventually inherit the Celestial Kingdom it is obedience to the associated covenants that will be the deciding factor. As to whether there are "churches" as we know it in the differing kingdoms of glory is not something, to my knowledge, that has been revealed.

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22 hours ago, Jonah said:

Does this mean those in the telestial and terrestrial kingdom will be not viewed 
as members of Christ's church because their future home is not earth?

Part of the problem created because of the "Apostasy" is the introduction of misunderstanding the Kingdoms of G-d and the laws that govern the citizens of G-d's Kingdoms.  Isaiah tells us that man is separated (apostasy or treason) from G-d in 3 ways.  First: Transgressions of the Law.  Second: Changing the Ordinances. And Third: Breaking the Everlasting Covenant.  Note that doctrine is not mentioned by Isaiah.  I will not attempt to explain why, because at this point the reason is likely to become a tangential distraction to more important principles.   But I will remark in passing that the lack of understanding of G-d's means of governing His covenantal citizens by a Kingdom - through Laws, Ordinances and Everlasting Covenant is, in part the reason that councils inspired by men (not G-d) have attempted to logically address notions of the G-d and the order of His Kingdom in an attempt to apply such to counterfeit Kingdoms established by men.

The most important notion that we need to understand moving forward is the principle of Agency.  Simply put - G-d is not a tyrant.  Rather he is merciful, kind and loving but also just.  Because of G-d's mercy and justice he cannot reward or punish choices born of discerptions or misunderstandings or should I be so bold to say - "Without the Fruit of Knowledge of Good and Evil."  But all things are ordered and governed by Law.   And so we, through our Agency, choose to either act upon or be acted upon by Law.  By definition freedom and liberty is acting upon the law - likewise slavery and bondage is being acted upon by the Law.  Another way to look at this is that those that act upon the law obtain ownership or stewardship - those that are acted upon by the law have no ownership but rather are owned.  This is as simple as the difference between those that own things as opposed to those that are owned by things.

I would caution that the manner you ask questions; appears - at least to me - that you are in danger of being owned rather than owning.  It is the purpose of G-d that the citizens of His Church become joint heirs of ownership with Him and his Son, Jesus Christ and as such that this earth will become their home - by ownership being a joint heir of Christ.  Those of the telestial and terrestrial will not inherit the ownership of those that enter into covenant (through ordinances) to be obedient to the Law and keep the Everlasting Covenant.  I would exhort that you covenant with G-d to obey the Laws of his Kingdom.

 

The Traveler

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On 1/27/2021 at 7:11 AM, JohnsonJones said:

I guess that's an interesting question.  Do you think we will have churches in the afterlife?

I would say no, as to organized churches. I view the church as the body of Christ.

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On 1/27/2021 at 12:11 PM, Traveler said:

Isaiah tells us that man is separated (apostasy or treason) from G-d in 3 ways.  First: Transgressions of the Law.  Second: Changing the Ordinances. And Third: Breaking the Everlasting Covenant.

Would you consider mankind separated from God by the Fall as the fourth way?

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@Jonah, you do realize when you repeatedly ignore poeple's responses here (including punting with another question), that is further solidifies the impression that you're not interested in the answers or truth-seeking, but rather just trolling?

Edited by Jane_Doe

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7 hours ago, Jonah said:

Would you consider mankind separated from God by the Fall as the fourth way?

No!  If you understood scripture you would realize that the fall was initiated through a "Transgression of the Law".    If you need help, I can offer the exact quote.  But since you are Catholic, I will ask you a question.  Do you think that to multiply and replenish the Earth is Law?  And involves marriage?

 

The Traveler

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19 hours ago, Jonah said:

I would say no, as to organized churches. I view the church as the body of Christ.

Then, that's probably your answer right there.  If there are no churches in heaven, by default, no one in heaven would be part of any church but would be joint-heirs with the Lord instead (as per Romans 8:17)

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On 1/26/2021 at 10:22 AM, Jonah said:

Would someone clarify this section.

D&C 10:55

"Therefore, whosoever belongeth to my church need not fear, for such shall inherit 
the kingdom of heaven
".

I found this definition of the kingdom of God / kingdom of Heaven.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/gs/kingdom-of-god-or-kingdom-of-heaven?lang=eng

The kingdom of God on earth is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints 
(D&C 65). The purpose of the Church is to prepare its members to live forever in 
the celestial kingdom or kingdom of heaven. However, the scriptures sometimes 
call the Church the kingdom of heaven, meaning that the Church is the kingdom of 
heaven on earth
.

I saw from another teaching that the earth is destined to become the everlasting 
residence of its inhabitants who gain the glory of the celestial kingdom.
 
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/doctrines-of-the-gospel-student-manual/37-millennium-and-glorification-of-the-earth?lang=eng

Does this mean those in the telestial and terrestrial kingdom will be not viewed 
as members of Christ's church because their future home is not earth?

Problems with this post include, but are not limited to:

1). The logical fallacy of “affirming the conseqeuent”;

2). Diving headlong into the dubious assumption that “the church” operates in the hereafter as it does in the here-and-now;

3). Trying to treat the Doctrine and Covenants as a legal code whose words are always used in the same way, in order to make hyper-linguistic arguments that lead to bizarre conclusions.

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1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Problems with this post include, but are not limited to:

1). The logical fallacy of “affirming the conseqeuent”;

2). Diving headlong into the dubious assumption that “the church” operates in the hereafter as it does in the here-and-now;

3). Trying to treat the Doctrine and Covenants as a legal code whose words are always used in the same way, in order to make hyper-linguistic arguments that lead to bizarre conclusions.

When I read this I was most impressed and concluded that you have hit the nail on the head as to how it was that after all the scripture that has been provided that the early Christians of the 4th century,  thought it necessary to council  among themselves and invent creeds to explain their current (at the time) belief and understanding of G-d.

 

The Traveler

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On 1/28/2021 at 8:08 PM, Traveler said:

But since you are Catholic, I will ask you a question.  Do you think that to multiply and replenish the Earth is Law?  And involves marriage?

Marriage and singleness are both gifts from God.

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4 hours ago, Jonah said:

Marriage and singleness are both gifts from God.

Interesting response - How do you feel about the scripture that "man is not without the woman nor woman without the man in G-d"?  Do you understand (clearly) the difference between a gift from G-d and a commandment?  Without this understanding of what is law it is most difficult to have a discussion about what is a transgression of the law.    Which bring us back to Isaiah and being separated from G-d - not by heresy or false doctrine but by transgression of the Law - which then brings about false doctrine to justify transgression of the law, changing of the ordinances and breaking the everlasting covenant.  

And so I find your answer rather confusing - I did not know that Catholics have an ordinance for singleness?????

 

The Traveler 

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On 1/30/2021 at 5:00 PM, Traveler said:

Interesting response - How do you feel about the scripture that "man is not without the woman nor woman without the man in G-d"?  Do you understand (clearly) the difference between a gift from G-d and a commandment?  Without this understanding of what is law it is most difficult to have a discussion about what is a transgression of the law.    Which bring us back to Isaiah and being separated from G-d - not by heresy or false doctrine but by transgression of the Law - which then brings about false doctrine to justify transgression of the law, changing of the ordinances and breaking the everlasting covenant.  

And so I find your answer rather confusing - I did not know that Catholics have an ordinance for singleness?????

We don't have an ordinance for singleness.  I don't believe remaining single is breaking
a commandment of God since marriage is not for everyone.  For this I would quote the
teachings of Jesus about the eunuch.  In Matthew 19:12, Jesus mentions eunuchs in the
context of whether it is good to marry. He says, “There are eunuchs who were born that
way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those
who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can
accept this should accept it.” Jesus identifies three types of “eunuchs” here: natural
eunuchs (“born that way”), forced eunuchs (“made eunuchs by others”), and voluntary
eunuchs (“those who choose”).

No condemnation is given by him.

In 1 Corinthians 7, Paul states that it is not wrong to get married, but that it is better if a
Christian can stay single.

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On 1/30/2021 at 2:30 PM, NeedleinA said:

Mega dodge. Didn't even answer his question. 

@Traveler asked "Do you think that to multiply and replenish the Earth is Law?  And involves marriage?"

This is a law for those to whom God commands.  Paul remained single and did not
remarry. There is no record that he even had children from his first marriage.  Stephen
was martyred but there is no mention of him being married with children either.  As a
side note, only monogamy and not polygamy (to my knowledge) was ever associated
with God's command to be fruitful and multiply and to replenish the earth. If I am not
mistaken, this command was given to Adam and his wife and to Noah and the flood
survivors.

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On 1/30/2021 at 10:23 PM, Carborendum said:

You're forgetting a priest's and nun's vows of celibacy.

A Catholic (of the non-priestly or non-nun class) can choose to remain celibate without
undergoing an ordinance of the Catholic Church.

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