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The Gospel

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The ancient definition of "Gospel" is good news.  My understanding of news - good or otherwise - is the knowledge or understanding of what is happening.  It seems to me that the modern definition of "Gospel" is doctrine.  I can understand that doctrine is a subset of gospel but my question concerns the overall importance of doctrine as such relates to "The Gospel".  

 

The Traveler

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My view is that the doctrine of Christ is the good news (gospel). The good news is that Christ overcame death and hell, and that one day everyone will be resurrected from the grave. If we have faith in Him, repent, are baptized in His name, etc...then His saving power comes into effect with regards to overcoming sin. That is the message that the missionaries are supposed to share with the world: inviting others to come unto Christ by helping them receive the restored gospel, i.e. the restored blueprint to overcoming spiritual death.

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I guess I would need to know your definition of doctrine as opposed to gospel to answer precisely but to me if using "good news" as the definition of gospel I would say that this news is what inspires hope and the desire to believe. It is the promise of a better world. But it's a knowledge of the doctrine that makes full bodied faith possible. We can be inspired by the good news that God wants us to be happy but without the knowledge of His divine attributes can we really have faith in those promises? We can find hope in hearing that Jesus is our Savior but without learning about the doctrines of the gospel and what is required to be born again our hope is no more that a wish.

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@scottyg and @laronius -- Is  the divine ordinance of baptism and marriage good news or is the doctrine that such can exist, sufficient?   Is receiving the Gift of the Holy Ghost part of the gospel of Christ or is it sufficient to know the doctrine of the Holy Ghost as G-d?  How about the keys of the priesthood?   Can the gospel of Christ be complete with understanding the doctrine of such things or is it necessary to have the priesthood, priesthood keys, the ordinances and the covenants to fulfill or complete the good news?

 

The Traveler

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17 hours ago, Traveler said:

@scottyg and @laronius -- Is  the divine ordinance of baptism and marriage good news or is the doctrine that such can exist, sufficient?   Is receiving the Gift of the Holy Ghost part of the gospel of Christ or is it sufficient to know the doctrine of the Holy Ghost as G-d?  How about the keys of the priesthood?   Can the gospel of Christ be complete with understanding the doctrine of such things or is it necessary to have the priesthood, priesthood keys, the ordinances and the covenants to fulfill or complete the good news?

 

The Traveler

It depends on how you are defining good news vs doctrine. With regards to Baptism is it good news that it is possible, but Christ Himself also said it was a part of His doctrine. Christ was showing us the right way (His way) which is by His authority. Baptism is a part of His doctrine, and I will touch on marriage shortly. Baptism took place for centuries after the death of the apostles, but was of no worth as it was not done by proper authority. The doctrine of such just existing is not sufficient...you must actually do something (be baptized) the right way. His doctrine requires proper action.

Receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost is also part of the gospel/His doctrine. Just knowing about it doesn't do you any good...you must be baptized of the spirit in addition to being baptized of water. Baptism by immersion is pointless without the second half - receipt of the Holy Ghost.

It is absolutely necessary to have the priesthood, for if we did not then the above ordinances could not take place in the way the Lord sees fit. They would not be acceptable. Such things must be done in His way by His authority. Receiving the Melchizedek priesthood is also necessary for men to achieve exaltation, and it is required to bless both men and women in regards to marriage, which is also required for exaltation to occur. That is the whole point of overcoming spiritual death...exaltation/returning to the presence of God. Folks can put aside the gospel of Jesus Christ all they wish, and be "saved" as we call it in one of the lower kingdoms that will be prepared, but true glory is dwelling with the Father and His Son.

What is your purpose in asking these questions? They seem simple, and surely such things are already known to you. The good news (glad tidings) delivered to the Judean shepherds was that hope and help was coming, that there was going to be a way to salvation; and that way is the doctrine of Christ that is now efficacious because of His completion of the Atonement and His subsequent resurrection.

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On 2/2/2021 at 11:34 AM, Traveler said:

The ancient definition of "Gospel" is good news.  My understanding of news - good or otherwise - is the knowledge or understanding of what is happening.  It seems to me that the modern definition of "Gospel" is doctrine.  I can understand that doctrine is a subset of gospel but my question concerns the overall importance of doctrine as such relates to "The Gospel".  

 

The Traveler

Of course the Good News is that Jesus Christ overcame sin and death in our behalf. As Joseph Smith said, "The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it. But in connection with these, we believe in the gift of the Holy Ghost, the power of faith, the enjoyment of the spiritual gifts according to the will of God, the restoration of the house of Israel, and the final triumph of truth.”

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18 hours ago, Traveler said:

@scottyg and @laronius -- Is  the divine ordinance of baptism and marriage good news or is the doctrine that such can exist, sufficient?   Is receiving the Gift of the Holy Ghost part of the gospel of Christ or is it sufficient to know the doctrine of the Holy Ghost as G-d?  How about the keys of the priesthood?   Can the gospel of Christ be complete with understanding the doctrine of such things or is it necessary to have the priesthood, priesthood keys, the ordinances and the covenants to fulfill or complete the good news?

 

The Traveler

I'm not sure where exactly we would draw the line between good news and doctrine but in this week's reading the Lord defines his doctrine as "whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church." (D&C 10:67) Of course there is a whole lot implied in that "repenteth and cometh unto me." But 1 Nephi 15:14 gives what I think is a good description of how the good news and the doctrine work together: "wherefore, they shall come to the knowledge of their Redeemer and the very points of his doctrine, that they may know how to come into him and be saved." To me the coming to the knowledge of our Savior is the good news but it's in the doctrine that we learn how to truly come unto him.

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8 hours ago, laronius said:

I'm not sure where exactly we would draw the line between good news and doctrine but in this week's reading the Lord defines his doctrine as "whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church." (D&C 10:67) Of course there is a whole lot implied in that "repenteth and cometh unto me." But 1 Nephi 15:14 gives what I think is a good description of how the good news and the doctrine work together: "wherefore, they shall come to the knowledge of their Redeemer and the very points of his doctrine, that they may know how to come into him and be saved." To me the coming to the knowledge of our Savior is the good news but it's in the doctrine that we learn how to truly come unto him.

As I understand - someone can know how to come unto G-d and still choose not to.  In my mind good news is when someone comes unto Christ - and not so much or as not so good of news if someone knows all about Christ and coming unto him and chooses not to.

 

The Traveler

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On 2/4/2021 at 6:05 PM, Traveler said:

As I understand - someone can know how to come unto G-d and still choose not to.  In my mind good news is when someone comes unto Christ - and not so much or as not so good of news if someone knows all about Christ and coming unto him and chooses not to.

 

The Traveler

What good news awaits those in the resurrection who refused to accept the gospel of
Jesus Christ or those who continued in their sins and did not repent?

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48 minutes ago, Jonah said:

What good news awaits those in the resurrection who refused to accept the gospel of
Jesus Christ or those who continued in their sins and did not repent?

Are you speaking hypothetically are do you know someone?  Do you not believe that every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ? 

My biggest concern about such statements from a self confessed religious type of persons about others refusing to bow and knee and confess the Christ is if they think of themselves as better because they think they believe in Christ.  If someone really believes in Christ - would they not be willing to sacrifice in the same manner as Christ and forgive those that do not know what they are doing?

 

The Traveler 

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3 hours ago, Jonah said:

What good news awaits those in the resurrection who refused to accept the gospel of
Jesus Christ or those who continued in their sins and did not repent?

Well...those who never accept the Lord's atonement and do not accept him as their Lord probably will not have much, if any, good news.  Hopefully there are not many of them.  We believe that all men (and women) will eventually have the opportunity to accept the Lord.  Those who do not, even after that, that is their choice.  In that case, as we choose one or the other master, if they do not choose the good master, most likely they have chosen the other, and in that instance may be even fighting against the Lord and his mercy, even to the bitter end in hopes of doing away with the Lord and his salvation he offers.

If they are in that boat, most likely they never repented in this life or the next, and as such, have completely rejected the Lord and his atonement.  In that case, they may have heard the good news, but probably, as they will fight against it and the Lord and reject it, may not take it as good news.

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I think of gospel and doctrine as pretty much the same thing. I probably haven’t given it a lot of thought. And, it doesn’t overly concern me. 
 

For me, I think about one of the rawest of emotions: grief. For many, the death of a true loved one is heart wrenching. That’s when the basic fundamental questions are often asked. Where do I come from? Why am I here? Where do I go after death? And, many people in the world wonder, is there a heaven? Is there a God?

And, what knowledge do we have as members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? We know the answers to those questions. Answers, that we often take for granted. Answers that a young child who has been brought up in the church knows. It is the gospel of good news! Most in the world do not have the answers to these questions. At least not as thoroughly as we do. So, the death of a loved one is almost more than they can bear. It is still difficult for members, too, for we too grieve and mourn, but we have a knowledge that is a wonderful blessing. It helps to know that our loved one is on the other side of the veil. We know we will see them again. And, we have hope in the atonement and in the resurrection. We know who our Heavenly Father is. We are His spiritual children. We know who Christ is. He is our elder brother and our redeemer.

For those who have searched for those answers, and then was taught them: “How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!” Isaiah 52:7.  What greater blessing is there than to know the gospel of Jesus Christ and living those principles and obtaining the ordinances in order to receive exaltation? I am so blessed! My testimony is what has brought peace through some nearly unbearable  times in my life. And, honestly, I have a hard time understanding how someone who has had this knowledge can throw it away and leave the church. I love the gospel. I love the “good news.” 

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On 2/12/2021 at 1:51 PM, Traveler said:

Do you not believe that every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ?

Yes, every knee will bow and confess that Jesus is the Christ, but I don't see that
those who reject the gospel or refuse to repent will have good news in the resurrection.

What do you think about the latter?

 

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1 hour ago, Jonah said:

Yes, every knee will bow and confess that Jesus is the Christ, but I don't see that
those who reject the gospel or refuse to repent will have good news in the resurrection.

What do you think about the latter?

 

I have a fervent hope and belief in the compassion, love and mercy of G-d.  I do not believe G-d has limits of time or place.  Rather I hope and believe that anyone that regrets sin and longs for forgiveness (in any degree) will find good news in the resurrection.  I cannot understand that anyone with any level of intelligence - will in the light of truth, desire the bondage and despair of sin.   In this mortal existence there is doubt, misunderstanding and confusion as to what will be and why.  When all doubt, misunderstanding and confusion fades in the light of truth that G-d's love will be good news for everyone.  I sincerely hope that no one will be doomed to what they deserve - especially me and anyone I have come to care about.   I do not believe that anyone thinking otherwise is in reality that connected to good news.

As I have read your posts (and others as well) I really wonder why you find such great joy in what you profess to believe.  I believe everyone will be glad and happy (appreciative to the good news) with their great gift of resurrection.

 

The Traveler

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On 2/15/2021 at 1:40 PM, Traveler said:

As I have read your posts (and others as well) I really wonder why you find such great joy in what you profess to believe.  I believe everyone will be glad and happy (appreciative to the good news) with their great gift of resurrection.

I find great joy knowing that faith in Christ's atonement will enable us to live 
with Christ in his kingdom.

From my understanding of what I read in the Book of Mormon, there is no second 
chance for those who had rejected the gospel in mortality.  There are a few but 
I'll provide one passage which mentions this.

"Therefore if that man repenteth not, and remaineth and dieth an enemy to God, the 
demands of divine justice do awaken his immortal soul to a lively sense of his own 
guilt, which doth cause him to shrink from the presence of the Lord, and doth fill 
his breast with guilt, and pain, and anguish, which is like an unquenchable fire, 
whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever. And now I say unto you, that mercy hath 
no claim on that man; therefore his final doom is to endure a never-ending torment

(Mosiah 2:38-39).

But I understand that a particular section in Doctrine and Covenants says they do 
have a chance for some degree of glory (supposedly, maybe?, living a life better 
than what they experienced on earth).

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7 hours ago, Jonah said:

I find great joy knowing that faith in Christ's atonement will enable us to live 
with Christ in his kingdom.

From my understanding of what I read in the Book of Mormon, there is no second 
chance for those who had rejected the gospel in mortality.  There are a few but 
I'll provide one passage which mentions this.

"Therefore if that man repenteth not, and remaineth and dieth an enemy to God, the 
demands of divine justice do awaken his immortal soul to a lively sense of his own 
guilt, which doth cause him to shrink from the presence of the Lord, and doth fill 
his breast with guilt, and pain, and anguish, which is like an unquenchable fire, 
whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever. And now I say unto you, that mercy hath 
no claim on that man; therefore his final doom is to endure a never-ending torment

(Mosiah 2:38-39).

But I understand that a particular section in Doctrine and Covenants says they do 
have a chance for some degree of glory (supposedly, maybe?, living a life better 
than what they experienced on earth).

I find your answer rather odd even to extremes.  My question to you concerned your personal belief.  I did not ask you to clarify what you think I believe or how I might understand scripture (that I am not sure that you hold to any singular importance or of divine origins) which concerning my personal understanding is obviously not accurate.  Was my question that confusing? 

 

The Traveler

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19 hours ago, Jonah said:

I find great joy knowing that faith in Christ's atonement will enable us to live 
with Christ in his kingdom.

From my understanding of what I read in the Book of Mormon, there is no second 
chance for those who had rejected the gospel in mortality.  There are a few but 
I'll provide one passage which mentions this.

"Therefore if that man repenteth not, and remaineth and dieth an enemy to God, the 
demands of divine justice do awaken his immortal soul to a lively sense of his own 
guilt, which doth cause him to shrink from the presence of the Lord, and doth fill 
his breast with guilt, and pain, and anguish, which is like an unquenchable fire, 
whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever. And now I say unto you, that mercy hath 
no claim on that man; therefore his final doom is to endure a never-ending torment

(Mosiah 2:38-39).

But I understand that a particular section in Doctrine and Covenants says they do 
have a chance for some degree of glory (supposedly, maybe?, living a life better 
than what they experienced on earth).

It is in the Lord's hands to judge on whether someone has had that opportunity to receive the gospel in this life or not and then rejected it.  There are many variables and we do not understand all of them.  It is correct though in our current teachings, if someone truly had the opportunity to accept the gospel in this life and rejected it, then they have limited their options in the next, as you say.

How that is judged is not really known to us.  For example, if you have someone such as my mother whom I gave a Book of Mormon to and talked about the church with from the time I was baptized, did she actually reject the gospel?  She never spoke ill about it, but she never seemed to tell me that she actually got a strong witness and knew it was true.  Without that witness of the Holy Ghost, as a reasonable person, did she actually have the opportunity to know it was the true church or not?

My hopes are that she has the opportunity to fully accept the gospel and the ordinances thereof for the greatest rewards she can obtain...but the judgements are the Lords and not mine to make.

Now, if the DO reject the gospel in this life, they will have opportunities to accept the gospel and ordinances in the next life, but their rewards are limited (as you say).  They will not be able to receive the highest degree of glory or rewards, but may be given lesser rewards.  As the Bible says, (KJV version) in John 14.

Quote

14 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

 

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