Quantum stuff is scary


NeuroTypical
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8 hours ago, askandanswer said:

I think that improving our understanding of theology is one of the most neglected methods of improving our understanding of science. Surely the best way of improving our knowledge of anything is by studying the source of all knowledge? God already knows what we are still trying to find out. I believe that a systematic study of theology can lead to a better understanding of science, and that a systematic study of science can lead to a better understanding of theology and that this focussed study could produce some very early results. I think that at present, science and theology are studied as two seperate things, to the detriment of both. I'm not sure why people don't use their knowledge of one as a means of building their knowledge of the other. The tools required for building both sorts of knowledge  are the same. As President Nelson said, quoting Elder Maxwell, 

Oh, there is so much more that your Father in Heaven wants you to know. As Elder Neal A. Maxwell taught, “To those who have eyes to see and ears to hear, it is clear that the Father and the Son are giving away the secrets of the universe!”13

I can answer that to a degree.

You would be surprised at HOW MANY PH.D's are actually quite religious.  I may not be a scientist per se, but I know many of them that have their degrees in science (physics, chemistry, various fields of medicine, etc). 

In this past year they've done ASTOUNDING things in science, and many of them in their research into a disease which is currently ravaging the world.  Despite their best efforts to try to help people stay safe, to utilize science to find cures, and to do things that to their best knowledge will help alleviate the pandemic going around the world today, they have been met with derision and scorn.

You would think that these religious men would be welcomed with open arms by the congregations they are part of.  Instead, they have been called all sorts of things, and some of the WORST individuals who are oppressing them???

Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the Stake and Ward leaders in the LDS corridor, as well as Fundamentalist Evangelicals in the South.  The religions that the professors and researchers are members of, in many locations have completely and totally rejected them and called them many things.

Items such as saying they are working with a world wide conspiracy to put trackers in everyone with the vaccine.

Or that they are trying to control everyone by telling them to social distance or to wear masks.

Or to say that their numbers are flawed and that they are lying to everyone and that the death toll in the US is not as high as they are stating it to be because many do not listen, take precautions, or have made it so political that they don't even CARE about others or try to take precautions that the scientists have been trying to get people to follow.  (to date we have had more die in the US from Covid-19 than the number of people who died in WWII, and the researchers are looking at the numbers and thinking we have undercounted the deaths anywhere from 10% on up...you can hide how many are infected, you can hide what they died from, but you cannot hide excess deaths without other criminal liabilities coming up).

They blatantly call scientists every name in the books, calling them communists, or even worse, calling into question the scientists own religious beliefs!

There are those that say that these very scientists that pray daily, sometimes for inspiration while they research, are instead atheists or unbelievers and that these scientists seek to destroy religion and religious practices (and many of my friends are VERY DEVOUT in their religion) is extremely depressing.

A scientist is not going to reject the things they see as facts, and they are not going to simply toss out their research because religious fanatics tell them too.  Some of the WORST times in history come from ignoring science (Copernicus and Gallileo being silenced, the inquisition, etc), and yet, we see it continuing today.

It is worse though.  I know of one Medical researcher who is glad he does not have to be on the front lines of the Covid emergency rooms anymore.  He is happy as he has some in his home with high risk conditions.  He is instead doing research and guiding responses.  As he is in a research office, it seems he has not gotten the vaccine.  Most of the people out there have not.  His stake has just informed him that they are going to stop allowing people to do sacrament at home.  They feel the threat is over.  He and I both know two people in that ward (which has continued to meet, but up until now gave members the chance to meet and have the sacrament at home instead of meeting with the rest of the ward) who isolated at home and only went to church who died from Covid-19.  The most likely place they got it was from that ward.  Stake President and Church leaders take no responsibility.  They blatantly ignore science and this fellow, I imagine he is going to be told he has to come to church or not get the sacrament.

Another who has tried to impress his stake that they should not be having meetings yet...has been told to shut up.  He has been told that he knows nothing and that the Lord will preserve everyone...that anyone who died was at the point that it was their time.  He was aghast at the callousness of it.  They have made him feel as if he is inactive because he is choosing to stay at home.

I have had a family member who has felt ostracized and tossed out and hence decided that if their stake would act like this, they don't need to attend.

I am ALSO very religious, though my field is not really science.  I am trying to be strong, but I feel extremely oppressed at this point in my own area.  No one listens to the scientists or medical personnel, or even their own doctors!  Instead, they are forging ahead and ignoring things and some of the actions they are doing are to suppress science and the things said by science and oppress those who are part of the "system" of science as they see it.

IT is NOT that scientists are rejecting religion.  Many are greatly inspired by it (and many of the scientific items actually originally came from ideas inspired by religion).  It is religion rejecting science.

I pray daily now that the prophet or someone among the General authorities will save us from the oppression that people like me are under in the church.  I am a full tithe payer, I've stayed loyal to the church and even renewed my temple recommend during the past year.  I have those calling us inactive.  I have those who when they see us try to stand even closer than normal (not even the social distancing, they come and invade my personal space on purpose) if they catch me in a line at the grocery store. Others call me far too paranoid and that I and those my age, if we die from Covid should simply accept it was our time or that we deserve to die!  Why is it that I and my fellows are being oppressed so massively by the local church leadership!

Is there anyone out there that can help us, that will hear our pleas?  We are praying.  The scientists I know are praying.  It is NOT that the scientists are not religious, they may be some of the most religious people I know.  It seems that religion is rejecting those that study and research and it is a TERRIBLE thing right now and the past year.

I have difficulty correlating secular history and what we find in religion, but I am deeply religious and I always seek to see if I can find the bridges between the two.  We may not have found them yet, but it does not mean they are not there.  I can understand the problems people have between the two.

However, when it comes to science, how many caught up in religion simply scoff at it seems to be growing in numbers, especially over the past year during this pandemic.

I have probably written too much and gone to far, but the feeling of oppression coming at me and many of those I know from their various church leaders is hard.   I would have thought that if anyone, the Church leadership would not have tossed science aside (and in the past the Church has been very forward in it's scientific views at times).

It seems the prophet and at least one apostle has integrated science into their prayers and thoughts, but they have done very little to alleviate the pain and suffering from those in my position who are, even at this time, having the greatest amount of oppression coming from the local leaders and some of the more fanatical members of the church.  However, the oppression is real and I know no relief.  If there is any leader with the power to aid us at this time who reads these boards...I pray they would help us.

However, I'm losing hope.  I don't think anyone cares about those of us in my situation anymore.  AS I said, I've probably written too much.  I had my emotions triggered...but it's not the fault of the writer of the post I responded to, just the ovewhelming sense of antagonistic comments and sarcastic mockery that the ward and stake leadership have tossed at me at taking the things and precautions suggested for us to take seriously.  I have never felt so alone in the gospel.

Which is why, when I say, as someone who is DEEPLY religious and devoted to the gospel...it's not the scientist or the researchers, or even the university professors who don't want to integrate and study religion, it is some of the more fanatical in religions that have rejected us.

Edited by JohnsonJones
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5 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

I pray daily now that the prophet or someone among the General authorities will save us from the oppression that people like me are under in the church.  I am a full tithe payer, I've stayed loyal to the church and even renewed my temple recommend during the past year.  I have those calling us inactive.  I have those who when they see us try to stand even closer than normal (not even the social distancing, they come and invade my personal space on purpose) if they catch me in a line at the grocery store. Others call me far too paranoid and that I and those my age, if we die from Covid should simply accept it was our time or that we deserve to die!  Why is it that I and my fellows are being oppressed so massively by the local church leadership!

Its a completely different situation in Australia. THe national covid death toll is still below 1,000 and individual cases are regarded as some unusual and important that they are always a major item in the daily news media reports. Despite these very low numbers, all state governments here still take a highly conservative approach to any outbreaks. Last week an outbreak started in our second larget state from an employee in a covid quarantine hotel. WHen it got to 13 cases of community transmission, the state government there locked the state down again for the next 5 days - borders were closed, no going to work except for essential workers, no leaving your house except for shopping, work and exercise and to provide care, no one who is not family coming into your house, no more church, not being allowed to go more than 5 kilometers from your home, compulsory mask wearing in public and fines amounting to slightly less than the average weekly income for not wearing a mask. 

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  • 1 month later...
On 2/4/2021 at 8:46 PM, NeuroTypical said:

I'm surprising myself with being able to understand things I never thought I'd be able to understand.  So, electrons and similar things have both attributes of waves, and attributes of particles.  That's easy.

Apparently whether something is behaving like a wave or a particle, depends on whether we are watching it or not.  That's unfathomable.  You set up your stupid electron gun/double-slit experiment and turn it on, the photons act like a wave.  Ok, they're waves.   Then you move a detector into place that does nothing besides watch what slit the electron goes through, and now they act like particles?  Now I understand how giant-brained atheist physicists run their bony fingers through their wispy white hair and wonder aloud if God is playing a practical joke on them.

So then - if you split an electron into two smaller entangled photons, and send one into a screen and one into a detector, both behave like particles.  Ok, whatever - you've gathered the data, it's sitting right there being unmistakable.  I don't get it, but it's the way it is. But apparently (and this is the part I'm still trying to understand), if you erase the data, then the entangled photons somehow erase the past and re-write it as waves?  It changes time?  It retroactively changes it's own nature?

GAAAAH!

I have a suggestion that could be relevant not only to many of the faculty of BYU in Jerusalem... but to all faculty in all branches of Brigham Young University in the USA and all nations.  

Quite a few years ago I wrote up a rather simple explanation for what I was thinking about Theistic Evolutionary Theory.

www.CarbonBias.blogspot.ca/

 

Chaim Henry Tejman M. D. could theoretically be given some variation of something like an "Origin of Life Award" for his work on Wave Theory and Life.

This award if sufficiently large could grab the attention of a huge percentage of Israelis who are interested in Theoretical Physics and could set up BYU Jerusalem for a whole new type of outreach not only to the nation of Israel..... but frankly to all people in all nations truly interested in science.

 

http://www.grandunifiedtheory.org.il/book/life1.htm
 

Quote

 

"The essential matter from which our universe is created is energetic matter. It behaves like living matter, creating every known entity, including living objects and even thought (which occurs through energetic matter–wave interaction). The essential structure of energetic matter is high-energy (concentrated energetic matter) electro-magnetic waves (picture above). This simple structure is the basis of everything: every energetic formation and the universe. In picture 2, we see that the DNA (double helix) of all living formations has the same structure as waves: two loops of the same energetic matter, behaving according to the same rules." (Dr. Chaim Tejman)

 

 

 

 

More information on this at:  "Theistic Evolutionary Theory"
on the General Philosophy subforum on Sciforums:

http://www.sciforums.com/threads/theistic-evolutionary-theory.164102/#post-3670725

 

 
Edited by DennisTate
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