Baptist-mormon Preacher Here

[Guest moreholinessgiveme]

They call me the "Baptist-Mormon preacher" here in Independence.

Sounds like fun.

Lynn

Welcome!

[snipe123]

Yediyd asks,

"...So, how do you reconcile BOTH religions?..."

To give you the "cliff notes" answer, I have found that Book of Mormon Christians and Bible-believing Christians have far more in common than all our differences? Are there differences? Of course. But as a Southern Baptist minister, it's my firm belief that it's ttime we began celebrating our commonalities rather than continue to magnify our differences. For too long we've talked AT one another; not TO one another.

I have been preaching out of both the Bible and the Book of Mormon as a Southern Baptist minister for these past twenty plus years. And have discovered -- the Book of Mormon is the most non-sectarian book I've ever read. It's meant for all believers! Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans, Catholics, Pentecostals, Episcopalians, LDS, etc.

So, in the context of your question -- "how do you reconcile both religions" -- we have been sponsoring "Building Bridges Conferences" up and down the Salt Lake Valley, from as far south as St. George to Salt Lake for the past three years. Our purpose is rather modest, actually. We simply want to get Bible-believing Christians and Book of Mormon Christians in the same room together. And we begin fellowshipping. We have NO AGENDA. We're not in the least interested in proselyting. We're interested in understanding each other.

The response in Utah among the LDS especially has been wonderful. Hundreds of LDS brothers and sisters attend, along with us Protestants.

It's really been a healing experience for us all. And we had the wonderful privilege of accepting an invitation from your President Hinckley to attend a luncheon at the Lion's House, hosted by the First Presidency. It was a wonderful time.

Thanks for asking,

Lynn

Southern Baptist Minister

Independence, MO

This astounds me to read...I am truely flabergasted...about a million questions come to mind, but perhaps my background and then a few questions will suffice...I am flabergasted because as a missionary in Texas I cannot tell you how much opposition there was from the Southern Baptist community to us...not a criticism to you at all, it's just that I find it so astounding that I would find one who is not only friendly towards Mormons, but who actually has been preaching from The Book of Mormon for 20 years? Do you do that openly in your congregation? In other words do you site chapter and verse, or just share concepts from it? What has been the reaction of your congregation? Does this mean you accept the Book of Mormon as scripture(do you believe in it's divine origins?) , or is it just a good book for preaching from? I'm absolutely fascinated by this, please fill me in...would love to know how I can help foster this kind of cooperation among faiths where I live...

EDIT: Apologies Lynn...I was so astounded by your innitial post that I jumped right into questions without reading the rest of them where you answered most of my questions....but now I have another:

How do you feel about Gordon B. Hinkley? You had lunch with him...Do you think he is a prophet? Also, What do you think about all of the anti-mormon literature that is out there and what it says about many of the doctrines that Baptists do not believe and regard as blasphemous even...Trying to wrap my brain around how that is roconciled...For example, the prophetic calling of Joseph Smith who translated the Book of Mormon by the gift and pwer of God and the doctrines that he taught such as baptism for the dead and Polygamy? I would also like to know if you believe that I, as a practicing Mormon am saved? I am very curious what you think of this...not challenging or doubting anything you have said...You also mentioned that you used to be a baptized member of the LDS church...Did you leave the church? Are you still officially a member or has there been an excommunication...forgive the personal question...I just want to know what you mean when you say you were baptised LDS...Why do you know longer accept that membership?

[Guest karlita007]

Hmm having been on both sides of this issue, I have to say that I'm with you in respect to celebrating our commonalities. We have a lot more in common than we like to believe, and having Jesus Christ as the cornerstone is the most important thing to me. Welcome!

[mikemck]

They call me the "Baptist-Mormon preacher" here in Independence.

Sounds like fun.

Lynn

As a Southern Baptist preacher, myself, may I ask the name of your church?

[Geocacher]

I bear testimony—the same Jesus I discovered in the Bible, I found in the Book of Mormon.

May the Spirit of God bear the same witness with you.

Lynn Ridenhour

Southern Baptist Minister

Independence, MO

Thanks so much for your Testimony Lynn, this hit me like a ton of bricks, thinking that through my 35 some years as an LDS member, that the Book of Mormon did not hold any weight against the Bible, but it seems like I am wrong, and I have felt the spirit guide me while reading the Book of Mormon. This is a very interesting mix of Baptist/Book of Mormon combination.

I did a Google of Baptist Book of Mormon, and found you at the top.

I did not really know you at the Mormon Apologetics site, but just registered here, then fell upon this thread, and I was quite moved by your Testimony big time.

-

Geoff

[Palerider]

I liove in Southern Missouri and have dealt with lots of Southern Baptists and Freewill etc....

[ztodd]

Hi Lynn, good to know ya through this forum :)

I'm also curious as to whether you were previously a member of the LDS church. Oh, woops, never mind, I saw you answered that. Sorry I didn't realize there was a page 2. :)

You sound like you know a lot about the church. You must know of the doctrine of the church concerning the restoration of the priesthood and the Gift of the Holy Ghost. What is your take on those principles?

I see you mentioned how you believe that...

God is the Truth. Jesus said so in John 14:6. “I am…the truth,” he said. In other words, Ultimate Truth is found in a person, not a creed or doctrine...

Your theology and doctrine are the truth about the truth about the Truth...

most believers (LDS and evangelicals) get hung up on truth about the Truth. Doctrine. Sadly, it’s our belief about God that keeps us from God...

This is what's kind of perplexing, especially that last statement. How can we come to know God, except by learning the truth about Him? How can we come close to Him, unless we know of His character? And how can we continue to learn more of His truth except through his chosen servants, the ancient and modern day prophets?

How can it be our belief about God that keeps us from Him? Isn't that kind of getting down on the Bible and the Book of Mormon, from whence come our beliefs about God?

How would you even know anything about God if it weren't for prophets and scripture, and how could you come to personally know if the scriptures are true, if it weren't for the Holy Ghost?

What about receiving the ordinances such as baptism that Jesus commanded us to do? How / in what manner is that to be done? What about other things that God commands us to do, and how to interpret certain scriptures? The different denominations interpret the same scriptures differently as you know. Are you saying these things are not important?

Is it not important to keep learning as much truth about God as we can? How can we do this, if we know not where to go to find it?

[LdsNana]

.

There must come a time when there are no more “ites” on this earth.

We must remind ourselves--there are not two gospels: one for Latter-day Saints and one for us Protestants.

Forgive my lengthy reply. But, as said, your question encourges, if not demands, more than a "cliff notes" response.

Lynn

As I am sure you must have noted by the barrage of questions that have been asked of you, here on this thread, and perhaps this is not your usual welcome elsewhere, but it does not seem that you go as easily undetected as you alluded to in a previous post?

And of course this thread was to announce who your are and what it is you do amongst camps and therefore maybe you were not even attempting to NOT be on the firing line of questioning?

Could it be fair to assume then, that this was your very intention through announcing, by posting a thread called "Baptist-mormon Preacher Here", that this was to elicit controversy amongst the lds? My apologies if I am wrong.

But your final statement as I have quoted above leads me to believe that your now coming to the lds camp is more or less a way to let we campers know that we are not so high and mighty as we think.

My first response to your epistle was to be moved at your cause, for I too love the apostle Paul and his christlike ways with working with all people in his approach to preach the Gospel of Christ. I too love the cause of becoming a ZION people and look forward to the day we will all be as ONE.

But Paul would NEVER deny the Gospel of Jesus Christ as instituted by Jesus Christ himself. You claim to know the Book of Mormon to be the Word of God. If this is true, then you are as obligated as ANY man, FOR GOD IS NO RESPECTOR OF PERSONS.

And whether the world receives this one truth or not, it remains, that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints is the organization here upon the earth that Jesus Christ Himself has authorized to administer His Gospel for the salvation of the children of men until He comes again.

Even Jesus Christ Himself, submitted to the will of THE FATHER and came unto John the Baptist who had AUTHORITY to Baptize and thus He fulfilled THE LAW by entering into the waters of baptism, received the Holy Ghost, which then led Him back into the Kingdom of Heaven!

Please answer for all of us here... how you are greater than the Son of God who submitted in keeping the commandments of the Father that He knew to be TRUE?

OBEDIENCE AND SACRIFICE ARE THE FIRST LAWS OF HEAVEN

THE FIRST COMMANDMENT HERE.... TO LOVE THE LORD THAT GOD!

EXACTLY HOW DO WE DO THAT?

YOU QUIBBLE ABOUT WHAT TRUTH IS SO AS TO JUSTIFY "YOUR" WORK.

TRUTH IS ONE ETERNAL ROUND.

tdmg,

gVr

[MormonGirl02]

I don't know if I should be welcoming you or not Lynn because I am such a new member myself but welcome anyway! I was raised Southern Baptist and while I wouldn't leave the Mormon church for anything, I find your position to be very interesting! You seem like a wonderful person. :)

[CourtneyP]

Hi and welcome! I was Southern Baptist for 17 years before becoming LDS. So I totally understand where you're coming from. :)

[LynnR]

Interesting! I am a former Baptist, now a Mormon!! My father was a Baptist preacher!!

So, how do you reconcile BOTH religions?

How do I reconcile both religions?

I give you the "Cliff Notes" version:

1) As a Baptist minister, I found nothing in the Book of Mormon that I disagreed with. In other words, protestant doctrines and themes are all throughout the Book of Mormon, and

2) I wasn't looking for 100% doctrinal agreement. One of the main distinctions (and I'm leaving so much out for the sake of brevity) I found between the two faiths was the distinction between the doctrine of salvation and the doctrine of exaltation.

We Protestants for one, don't always see or understand that critical distinction, and two--we don't understand that the teaching of exaltation is not just a "Mormon" doctrine, but it's taught, or certainly alluded to, in the Bible.

As said, I left much out, but enough said.

Thanks for asking,

Lynn

[LynnR]

Isaiah asks

"...How do you feel about Gordon B. Hinkley? You had lunch with him...Do you think he is a prophet?

I certainly have no reason not to believe he's a prophet.

Also, What do you think about all of the anti-mormon literature that is out there and what it says about many of the doctrines that Baptists do not believe and regard as blasphemous even...

A have a couple responses: 1) Sadly, so many of my Baptist peers have drawn their conclusions about Mormonism from seconded-handed sources; i.e., what they were taught in seminary, in evangelical colleges, from their pastor, or their family and friends. Myself included. I'm a bit ashamed to say, but I was one of those Baptist preachers who preached against Joseph Smith, the restoration gospel, and the Book of Mormon, and the full extent of my information came primarily from books like Walter Martin's "Kingdom of the Cults." I preached against the Book of Mormon and had never read it! I'm not proud of that, by the way. It honestly tells you more about me than it does about what I was preaching against.

I guess I'm saying--1) Not until my friends search out from original sources will they believe. Or have a change of heart. It was not until I sat down and read the Book of Mormon (actually to prove to my Mormon neighbor what a dumb thing to believe) that I had a change of heart.

That's my first response. And 2)

Why all the anti-Mormon literature out there, especially distributed by evangelicals? And this really hits close to home.

Those who warn us against the dangers of cults are more dangerous than those they warn us against. Why? It's their spirit they carry. Very un-Christ-like. I'm not proud to say this, but we evangelicals have too often been the guilty ones.

3) There's really a third answer to your concern: why all the anti literature? I found it to be a truism that we don't need to defend that which we know. If we know something, why defend it? Truth, as Joseph said, will cut its own path. It needs no help of our own. I'm saying--we tend to defend at times that which we're not quite sure of. It's that feeling of being threatened.

Trying to wrap my brain around how that is roconciled...For example, the prophetic calling of Joseph Smith who translated the Book of Mormon by the gift and pwer of God and the doctrines that he taught such as baptism for the dead and Polygamy?

I have no doubt--none--that Joseph was guided by the same Holy Spirit that inspired the writing of the Bible. And I learned long ago to put on the "back burner" those things I'm not quite certain of. Baptism for the dead and polygamy fall into that category. I really don't have an opinion one way or another.

I would also like to know if you believe that I, as a practicing Mormon am saved?

It would be very arrogant of me to not take your word for it. Who am I to question your confession? If you say you're saved, you're saved.

I am very curious what you think of this...not challenging or doubting anything you have said...You also mentioned that you used to be a baptized member of the LDS church...Did you leave the church? Are you still officially a member or has there been an excommunication...forgive the personal question...I just want to know what you mean when you say you were baptised LDS...Why do you know longer accept that membership?..."

I believe I addressed this in a previous post.

Thanks for your questions.

Lynn

[LynnR]

As a Southern Baptist preacher, myself, may I ask the name of your church?

Sure.

I'm actually what some might refer to as "charismatic Baptist." Though, of course, I still am an ordained

Southern Baptist minister, what to do with the practice of spiritual gifts is still "up for grabs" for many

Southern Baptist ministers.

But anyway, to answer your question, the name of my church is: The Friends of God.

It's essentially a non-denominational fellowship. We do lots of cell groups, or as some

might say--house churches. And have approximately 450,000 brothers and sisters scattered

around the world. We're a loosely-held knit with an emphasis on relationships, not structured

membership. Having said that, we understand the dangers of extreme. There must be structure;

ours is simply relational, not hierarchical. Another way of saying the same thing is--we're more

into function, than titles. If you function as an evangelist, you're an avangelist whether or not

you're recognized with the title.

The ultimate emphasis of our ministry is: acquiring an intimacy with Christ.

Lynn

[LynnR]

Could it be fair to assume then, that this was your very intention through announcing, by posting a thread called "Baptist-mormon Preacher Here", that this was to elicit controversy amongst the lds? My apologies if I am wrong.

But your final statement as I have quoted above leads me to believe that your now coming to the lds camp is more or less a way to let we campers know that we are not so high and mighty as we think.

I come with no agenda. I'm not interested in proselytizing anyone to my points of view. My passion is: let's build bridges where commonalities exist, and be civil where differences exist. I'm simply here for dialogue and hopefully as a minister of reconciliation.

My first response to your epistle was to be moved at your cause, for I too love the apostle Paul and his christlike ways with working with all people in his approach to preach the Gospel of Christ. I too love the cause of becoming a ZION people and look forward to the day we will all be as ONE.

But Paul would NEVER deny the Gospel of Jesus Christ as instituted by Jesus Christ himself. You claim to know the Book of Mormon to be the Word of God. If this is true, then you are as obligated as ANY man, FOR GOD IS NO RESPECTOR OF PERSONS.

And whether the world receives this one truth or not, it remains, that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints is the organization here upon the earth that Jesus Christ Himself has authorized to administer His Gospel for the salvation of the children of men until He comes again.

I understand your point of view, and respect it. I take the position that Joseph espoused in church history, volume 7:382:

“...We are asked, ‘IS THE CHURCH OF GOD, and THE KINGDOM OF GOD THE SAME organization? And we are informed that some of the brethren hold that THEY ARE SEPARATE.'

THIS IS THE CORRECT VIEW TO TAKE. THE KINGDOM OF GOD is a SEPARATE organization from the Church of God. On this point THE PROPHET JOSEPH GAVE AN EXAMPLE, which he asked the younger elders who were present to always remember. It was to the effect that men might be chosen to officiate as members of THE KINGDOM OF GOD who had NO standing in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”

I believe I fit into that category.

<span style="color:#000000">Even Jesus Christ Himself, submitted to the will of THE FATHER and came unto John the Baptist who had AUTHORITY to Baptize and thus He fulfilled THE LAW by entering into the waters of baptism, received the Holy Ghost, which then led Him back into the Kingdom of Heaven!

Please answer for all of us here... how you are greater than the Son of God who submitted in keeping the commandments of the Father that He knew to be TRUE?

OBEDIENCE AND SACRIFICE ARE THE FIRST LAWS OF HEAVEN

THE FIRST COMMANDMENT HERE.... TO LOVE THE LORD THAT GOD!

EXACTLY HOW DO WE DO THAT?

YOU QUIBBLE ABOUT WHAT TRUTH IS SO AS TO JUSTIFY "YOUR" WORK.

I'm sorry you feel that way.

TRUTH IS ONE ETERNAL ROUND.

tdmg,

gVr

</span>

[LdsNana]

How do I reconcile both religions?

I give you the "Cliff Notes" version:

1) As a Baptist minister, I found nothing in the Book of Mormon that I disagreed with. In other words, protestant doctrines and themes are all throughout the Book of Mormon, and

2) I wasn't looking for 100% doctrinal agreement. One of the main distinctions (and I'm leaving so much out for the sake of brevity) I found between the two faiths was the distinction between the doctrine of salvation and the doctrine of exaltation.

We Protestants for one, don't always see or understand that critical distinction, and two--we don't understand that the teaching of exaltation is not just a "Mormon" doctrine, but it's taught, or certainly alluded to, in the Bible.

As said, I left much out, but enough said.

Thanks for asking,

Lynn

Lynn -

I am glad that you have returned to the forum, to address the many questions that your posts have produced. I detect from you, that have identified some very important points of doctrine, that ARE found in the Bible and also taught in the lds Church. I appreciate the way in which you have isolated this particular doctrine of 'becoming gods' that is taught by the lds Church, and is eternal truth. I wish that we had more time to chat on this topic, but you are very right here. Generally the evangelicals only teach that part of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, wherein salvation for all that accept Jesus Christ as Savior and Redeemer is given...

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints, teaches the doctrine which the Apostle Paul wrote, spoke and testified of throughout the New Testament. Once a person realizes WHAT Paul is speaking concerning... The New Testament now begins to un-veil itself as to these mysteries of the Kingdom. These were taught and testified of by Jesus Christ Himself, and to His Apostles. They were partakers of these truths, and were given the Keys to administer these blessings of a Higher mode of being saved, i.e. EXALTATION. Three heavens or Kingdoms are also spoken of in the Bible, baptism for the dead, POLYGAMY runs through the entire Old Testament... there is hardly a prophet who lived then, that did not have plural wives, that was sanctioned by GOD.

When a true seeker of truth, begins to desire and understand... and KNOW, actually what is taught in the Bible, and when they have that great opportunity to NOW receive the Book of Mormon, which also contains the Fullness of the Gospel... they qualify themselves for the promise of which Moroni did extend...

that if they pray sincerely to know IF the Book of Mormon is true... they WILL receive the confirmation, by the POWER OF THE HOLY GHOST, that it is TURE.

Lynn, it appears to me that you have been given this witness regarding the Book of Mormon and also know for yourself that the Book of Mormon is true... Did you even need to ask, or has the spirit just been that LOUD?

Maybe what you need to do is just ASK, and this confusion that I sense in you will dissipate into the Peace that only THE fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, CAN bring, when it is RECEIVED, completely...

Come Follow Me... His way, not ours.

Note - my questions in my previous post (above) still stand, although I am feeling that perhaps... your heart does have pure intentions. I hope you will continue to converse here at the forum.

Best Regards,

gVr

[LynnR]

Thanks so much for your Testimony Lynn, this hit me like a ton of bricks, thinking that through my 35 some years as an LDS member, that the Book of Mormon did not hold any weight against the Bible, but it seems like I am wrong, and I have felt the spirit guide me while reading the Book of Mormon. This is a very interesting mix of Baptist/Book of Mormon combination.

I did a Google of Baptist Book of Mormon, and found you at the top.

I did not really know you at the Mormon Apologetics site, but just registered here, then fell upon this thread, and I was quite moved by your Testimony big time.

-

Geoff

Thank you, Geoff, for your kind words.

I probably sound like a broken record, but our passion is: building bridges between Book of Mormon Christians and Bible-believing Christians. Forgive the commercial, but we have started our own blog just for that very purpose:

www.baptistmormonpreacher.typepad.com

Thanks again for your kind words.

Lynn

[LynnR]

"...I am glad that you have returned to the forum, to address the many questions that your posts have produced. I detect from you, that have identified some very important points of doctrine, that ARE found in the Bible and also taught in the lds Church. I appreciate the way in which you have isolated this particular doctrine of 'becoming gods' that is taught by the lds Church, and is eternal truth. I wish that we had more time to chat on this topic, but you are very right here. Generally the evangelicals only teach that part of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, wherein salvation for all that accept Jesus Christ as Savior and Redeemer is given.."

You're right. We evangelicals struggle with the following distinctions:

Grace has to do with that grand biblical theme of salvation. Or our destination.

Works, on the other hand, have to do with sanctification. Or our exaltation.

One is a doctrine of kind; the other, a doctrine of degrees. One will take you to heaven; the other will take you to a higher realm in heaven. One will change you from one kind of a person (sinner) into another kind (saint). The other will change you from one degree of glory to another degree of glory (II Cor.3:18).

Our “favorite Protestant apostle,” Paul, spoke, or certainly alluded to, the grand theme. Exaltation I believe is a legitimate biblical theme. True: it’s mostly ignored by us Protestants, but nevertheless, a valid biblical theme. Which brings up the point: I believe we Protestants, generally speaking, have far too narrow of a view of the afterlife. Our view of the afterlife is too static. We seldom, if ever, preach sermons on I Corinthians 15—degrees in the afterlife & the kingdom of God. It’s just not in our makeup.

Here are a few select passages I believe that point to the biblical doctrine: exaltation.

“…..I press toward the mark of the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus….” Phillippians 3:14

“….For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things in bringing many sons unto glory….” Hebrews 2:10

“…..There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differeth from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead…..” I Cor.15:40-42

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints, teaches the doctrine which the Apostle Paul wrote, spoke and testified of throughout the New Testament. Once a person realizes WHAT Paul is speaking concerning... The New Testament now begins to un-veil itself as to these mysteries of the Kingdom. These were taught and testified of by Jesus Christ Himself, and to His Apostles. They were partakers of these truths, and were given the Keys to administer these blessings of a Higher mode of being saved, i.e. EXALTATION. Three heavens or Kingdoms are also spoken of in the Bible, baptism for the dead, POLYGAMY runs through the entire Old Testament... there is hardly a prophet who lived then, that did not have plural wives, that was sanctioned by GOD.

When a true seeker of truth, begins to desire and understand... and KNOW, actually what is taught in the Bible, and when they have that great opportunity to NOW receive the Book of Mormon, which also contains the Fullness of the Gospel... they qualify themselves for the promise of which Moroni did extend...

that if they pray sincerely to know IF the Book of Mormon is true... they WILL receive the confirmation, by the POWER OF THE HOLY GHOST, that it is TURE.

Lynn, it appears to me that you have been given this witness regarding the Book of Mormon and also know for yourself that the Book of Mormon is true... Did you even need to ask, or has the spirit just been that LOUD?

Maybe what you need to do is just ASK, and this confusion that I sense in you will dissipate into the Peace that only THE fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, CAN bring, when it is RECEIVED, completely...

Come Follow Me... His way, not ours.

Note - my questions in my previous post (above) still stand, although I am feeling that perhaps... your heart does have pure intentions. I hope you will continue to converse here at the forum.

Best Regards,

gVr

Here's my perspective in a nutshell.

You must keep in mind. We evangelicals can't steal second or head for home until we're on first base. It's been my experience, having dialogued for these past 20 plus years across the aisles with my LDS brothers and sisters, that you guys want us to steal second or head for home without getting us on first.

Let me clarify the analogy.

I'm keenly aware that the concept and doctrine of authority is central to every LDS. Your faith rises and falls on it. And I respect your sensitivity to the doctrine. Proper spiritual authority (i.e., restoration of priesthood, presidential succession, etc) is to an LDS what the Mass is to a Catholic. Both are held in the highest spiritual esteem. I understand that.

Now here's something I don't believe you understand (and please, my apologies if you do). We evangelicals have a lot of theological hurdles to jump over before we're even in the least bit concerned over the issue of the restoration of the priesthood. That's the FUTHEREST thing from our minds. Here are some key issues for us:

1) Did the good guys really win at the Council of Nicea?

2) Just how trustworthy are our Patristic Church Fathers of the second and third centuries?

3) The closed canon

4) The rapture

Take the last two -- numbers 3 & 4. No evangelical, for instance, is willing to take you seriously regarding the matter of priesthood authority until our two "sacred cows" are dealt with. Evangelical Christians are taught from cradle to grave that: 1) the rapture of the church could occur any moment. And 2) for "those Mormons" to talk about Joseph Smith setting up a literal kindom on this earth is pure nonsense! My peers just won't listen to you about priesthood authority and the "one true church" when they have benn taught all their lives "we're out of here."

See what I mean?

Also, another reason LDS are not taken seriously by evangelicals is--again, from cradle to grave we're taught that God ain't writing no more books. I know the logical arguments against the closed canon, but we're not dealing with logic here. We're dealing with one of the two precious, holy and sacred teachings of evangelicalism: the Bible is the only Word of God, and the Lord could be returning any day now to come rescue us.

Both you and I know those are extra-biblical doctrines. But my friends swear they're "gospel." And deeply held traditions win out every time over logic.

I'm simply belaboring the point: my mission is to get my gang on first base. First. I spend the majority, if not all, my time dealing with the above issues.

Lynn

[LynnR]

Welcome to the board, we're glad you're here. I'm pretty new around here myself, and I'm still wandering the halls, learning who's who, putting names to faces, etc. At any rate, you'll have to excuse my skepticism at the thought of a southern Baptism minister who preaches from the Book of Mormon. With due respect, this doesn't exactly add up. It's like saying Bill Gates will now be sitting on the Board of Directors for Apple Computers, or that Rosie has become the newest hairstylist for the Donald!

I understand. The Baptist Mormon Preacher?! It's like a Protestant Pope! Impossible. Well...almost. Except I found SO MANY similarities in the Book of Mormon that sounded like Baptist doctrine. I tell my Baptist peers, "The Book of Mormon is more 'Baptist' in places than the Baptist Hymnal!" They scratch their heads.

For example, the book uplifts the blood of Christ (Mosiah 3:18), declares that salvation is by God’s grace (2 Nephi 10:24), defends the grand theme of salvation (Mosiah 3:12), and proclaims that salvation comes only through faith on the Lord Jesus Christ (Mosiah 5:7). Other themes such as repentance, atonement by Christ’s blood, redemption, and forgiveness run like a scarlet thread through the book as well (Alma 5:49; Helaman 5:9; Alma 21:9; Mosiah 4:24). The grand themes of Protestantism are found recorded through and through. From cover to cover.

I was delightfully surprised to find so many “born again” scriptures in the Book of Mormon. For example…

“…For, said he, I have repented of my sins, and have been redeemed of the Lord; behold, I am born of the Spirit. And the Lord said unto me, Marvel not that all mankind, yea, men, and women, all nations, kindreds, tongues and people, must be born again; Yea, born of God, changed from their carnal and fallen state, to a state of righteousness, being redeemed of God, becoming his sons and daughters; and thus they become new creatures; and unless they do this, they can in no wise inherit the kingdom of God…”

--Mosiah 27:24,25

As we say back home, that’s some doggoned good Baptist preaching!

One of my favorite hymns of the early restoration saints is: YE MUST BE BORN AGAIN.

A ruler once came to Jesus by night,

To ask Him the way of salvation and light;

The Master made answer in words true and plain

“Ye must be born again.”

“Ye must be born again,

Ye must be born again,

I verily, verily say unto thee

Ye must be born again.”

--W.T. Sleeper

One other thing. I discovered, Joseph Smith meant exactly what I meant when he used the phrase “born again.” He wasn’t saying one thing and meaning another; that is, he wasn’t playing with semantics. I found the above scriptures to be comforting to my spirit. So believable. So “…plain and precious” to the soul.

Anyway, a Baptist who believes in the Book of Mormon? For me it’s not an issue.

…To understand the Book of Mormon as a non-sectarian book is to misunderstand the Book of Mormon. Clearly, you've done a great deal of reading and studying to the point where you know that the Book of Mormon is another witness of Jesus Christ.

I need to clarify myself. I’m saying—the Book of Mormon is meant for all God’s children. It’s not mean just for Mormons. When Joseph received the revelation to translate the book, there were no Mormons. That’s my point. There’s no such thing as an “original” Mormon. All were converts. Sidney, Brigham, everyone. I agree. Of course, the book is another witness to Jesus Christ. But that wasn’t my point.

Lynn

[LynnR]

God is the Truth. Jesus said so in John 14:6. “I am…the truth,” he said. In other words, Ultimate Truth is found in a person, not a creed or doctrine...

Your theology and doctrine are the truth about the truth about the Truth...

most believers (LDS and evangelicals) get hung up on truth about the Truth. Doctrine. Sadly, it’s our belief about God that keeps us from God... (Lynn)

This is what's kind of perplexing, especially that last statement. How can we come to know God, except by learning the truth about Him? How can we come close to Him, unless we know of His character? And how can we continue to learn more of His truth except through his chosen servants, the ancient and modern day prophets?

How can it be our belief about God that keeps us from Him? Isn't that kind of getting down on the Bible and the Book of Mormon, from whence come our beliefs about God?

How would you even know anything about God if it weren't for prophets and scripture, and how could you come to personally know if the scriptures are true, if it weren't for the Holy Ghost?

What about receiving the ordinances such as baptism that Jesus commanded us to do? How / in what manner is that to be done? What about other things that God commands us to do, and how to interpret certain scriptures? The different denominations interpret the same scriptures differently as you know. Are you saying these things are not important?

Is it not important to keep learning as much truth about God as we can? How can we do this, if we know not where to go to find it?

I can understand how you might conclude that I’m minimizing the importance of the scriptures. That’s not my point. I need to clarify what I’m getting at.

I’m saying—to value the scriptures above the Holy Spirit is idolatry. It is not: Father, Son, and Holy Bible (or Book of Mormon). The Bible and Book of Mormon REVEAL God, but are not God. Neither book does not CONTAIN Him. God is bigger than His books! That was Joseph’s point with the Protestant ministers of his day. Ministers in Joseph’s day had become worshippers of the Bible—biblicists—rather than seekers after the Living God. They had committed the sin of biblio-idolatry.

That’s why when Joseph had his encounter with the living Godhead in the grove, He was scorned by the religious folks of his day. Joseph’s testimony was: God lives, for I have seen Him. And they killed him.

One of the things that attracted me to the restoration gospel was its inclusion of The Divine Encounter. Take, for instance, the very first miracle of the church. How did all this get started? I’m sure you know the story: Church History Volume One, pages 82-84. The First Conference was being held in a modest dwelling belonging to a Joseph Knight. Mr. Knight had a son by the name of Newel. Joseph, the prophet, calls on the lad to pray. He was bashful and bound by spirits. Joseph cast out the spirits and the power and presence of the Almighty descended on the young lad and floated him to the ceiling! The young man was suspended in the air up near the rafters, with his head pushed up against the ceiling, when he came to his senses.

Many witnessed the Divine Encounter and became members. I think I would have joined too!

I’m simply saying, a balance of scripture that includes such Divine Encounters is what the restoration gospel is all about. We need both—not at the exclusion of the other.

Lynn

[LdsNana]

God is the Truth. Jesus said so in John 14:6. “I am…the truth,” he said. In other words, Ultimate Truth is found in a person, not a creed or doctrine...

Your theology and doctrine are the truth about the truth about the Truth...

most believers (LDS and evangelicals) get hung up on truth about the Truth. Doctrine. Sadly, it’s our belief about God that keeps us from God... (Lynn)

This is what's kind of perplexing, especially that last statement. How can we come to know God, except by learning the truth about Him? How can we come close to Him, unless we know of His character? And how can we continue to learn more of His truth except through his chosen servants, the ancient and modern day prophets?

How can it be our belief about God that keeps us from Him? Isn't that kind of getting down on the Bible and the Book of Mormon, from whence come our beliefs about God?

How would you even know anything about God if it weren't for prophets and scripture, and how could you come to personally know if the scriptures are true, if it weren't for the Holy Ghost?

What about receiving the ordinances such as baptism that Jesus commanded us to do? How / in what manner is that to be done? What about other things that God commands us to do, and how to interpret certain scriptures? The different denominations interpret the same scriptures differently as you know. Are you saying these things are not important?

Is it not important to keep learning as much truth about God as we can? How can we do this, if we know not where to go to find it?

I can understand how you might conclude that I’m minimizing the importance of the scriptures. That’s not my point. I need to clarify what I’m getting at.

I’m saying—to value the scriptures above the Holy Spirit is idolatry. It is not: Father, Son, and Holy Bible (or Book of Mormon). The Bible and Book of Mormon REVEAL God, but are not God. Neither book does not CONTAIN Him. God is bigger than His books! That was Joseph’s point with the Protestant ministers of his day. Ministers in Joseph’s day had become worshippers of the Bible—biblicists—rather than seekers after the Living God. They had committed the sin of biblio-idolatry.

That’s why when Joseph had his encounter with the living Godhead in the grove, He was scorned by the religious folks of his day. Joseph’s testimony was: God lives, for I have seen Him. And they killed him.

One of the things that attracted me to the restoration gospel was its inclusion of The Divine Encounter. Take, for instance, the very first miracle of the church. How did all this get started? I’m sure you know the story: Church History Volume One, pages 82-84. The First Conference was being held in a modest dwelling belonging to a Joseph Knight. Mr. Knight had a son by the name of Newel. Joseph, the prophet, calls on the lad to pray. He was bashful and bound by spirits. Joseph cast out the spirits and the power and presence of the Almighty descended on the young lad and floated him to the ceiling! The young man was suspended in the air up near the rafters, with his head pushed up against the ceiling, when he came to his senses.

Many witnessed the Divine Encounter and became members. I think I would have joined too!

I’m simply saying, a balance of scripture that includes such Divine Encounters is what the restoration gospel is all about. We need both—not at the exclusion of the other.

Lynn

I am completely puzzled by your appearance in this forum. At the conclusion of each and every one of your posts, I am left simply exhausted and shaking my head in sadness for the state of confusion that you have created within yourself, which is quite clear to me.

I do not know your life story, in regards to your previous membership in the Lds Church. I find myself curious to know, how long were you an active member, were you ever endowed and did you serve a two year mission for the Lord as a missionary? Were you ever conferred with the priesthood, and an Elder?

And then the obvious question... WHY did you then reject your membership, and take up another faith, which takes you backward from what you had been given?

Light cleaves to light -- When given light, then refusing to receive that light... we do not then really expect those who believe this eternal principle, to then accept that you could step out of the light, turn your back on the light -- and then now proclaim that the Giver of that light, after you rejected Him, has now called you to preach His word to others who are most likely seekers of truth...

How do you justify this claim, other than to acknowledge that you are perhaps, setting your own self, up as a light -- but in reality, in those that see the light, you are actually a road block, to the true path of Jesus Christ, which is salvation.

How is it that you can quote Joseph Smith, to sustain your positions, and then reject him as the Prophet of the Restoration? How do you actually reconcile that work which God had for him to do, and which he died as a martyr for? You quote scripture taken from The Book of Mormon, and proceed to assume that God has told you how to give it to the world... He sends that ancient text, to the world and through His chosen servants, whom are called by Him, and sustained by the Saints of God, by common consent, and then has hands laid upon their heads, in which He gives to these men, His power, unto administering those ordinances that will save His Children.

The great work of His Church, as organized, is to bring souls unto Christ, that they may be made partakers of all that the Father hath. I am not aware of any such system as you profess, and for the benefit of those who you have judged not ready to receive all of the truth at this time, because you feel their errors in understanding truth, have blinded them.

1 Jn. 5: 11, 13, 20

11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

• • •

13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

• • •

20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

John 17: 2-3

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

1 Tim. 6: 12, 19

12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

• • •

19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

It is impossible to use the Book of Mormon, to reconcile ones self away from truth, and to then attempt to validate this retreat, with now a self-professed call, with this same sacred text. The mission of the Book of Mormon is to testify of Christ, and in doing so, point the true seekers of God, directly to His servants, who have been given His priesthood, with the necessary keys turned, which enable those men to act in His Name, in administering salvation unto the children of God.

The fact that you quote scripture from the Book of Mormon, and then do not hearken to that spirit which testifies to its truthfulness, as I understand things, would bring a person under great condemnation.

My feelings have remained the same, that you are a law unto only yourself, and it is you that has given yourself the proclaimed title of shepherd... but in the Bible we learn much about His sheep, don't we?

Perhaps you are on the road that would turn you once again to Jesus Christ, and into His light, that you may return unto Him.

How long have you been working with your stubborn sheep? You make it sound as though they are not so humble upon receiving their shepherd.

My sheep hear my voice -- and from what I know of His sheep, they hearken to Him only.

One other point that I am quite certain of, and that is -- it is not a good position for a person to find themselves placed, upon rejecting the Holy Spirit of Truth... I believe THAT would be considered a bit blasphemous, don't you?

[LynnR]

GV,

Rather than go down the line and respond to specific concerns you have, I can say it no better than your general authorites. You ask, "why are you here?" I let them speak again for me.

I see my calling and ministry as: building bridges. I share some church history quotes that are meaningful to what I do.

“...We are asked, ‘is the church of God, and the kingdom of God the same organization? And we are informed that some of the brethren hold that they are separate.' This is the correct view to take. The kingdom of God is a separate organization from the Church of God. On this point the prophet of God gave an example, which he asked the younger elders who were present to always remember. It was to the effect that men might be chosen to officiate as members of the kingdom of God who had no standing in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.” (LDS History of the Church, 7:382).

In the 1998 General Conference, Gordon B. Hinkley said:

"We can respect other religions, and must do so. We must recognize the great good they accomplish. We must teach our children to be tolerant and friendly toward those not of our faith. We can and do work with those of other religions in the defense of those values which have made our civilization great and our society distinctive."

And of course, Joseph Smith's quasi-famous statement (from History of the Church 5:517):

"Have the Presbyterians any truth? Yes. Have the Baptists, Methodists, etc., any truth? Yes. They all have a little truth mixed with error. We should gather all the good and true principles in the world and treasure them up, or we shall not come out true "Mormons." "

And (from History of the Church 5:499)...

"The inquiry is frequently made of me, "Wherein do you differ from others in your religious views?" In reality and essence we do not differ so far in our religious views, but that we could all drink into one principle of love. One of the grand fundamental principles of 'Mormonism" is to receive truth, let it come from whence it may."

And, one of my new favorites (from Documentary History of the Church Vol.5, p. 498):

"The Saints can testify whether I am willing to lay down my life for my brethren. If it has been demonstrated that I have been willing to die for a Mormon, I am bold to declare before Heaven that I am just as ready to die in defending the rights of a Presbyterian, a Baptist, or a good man of any other denomination; for the same principle which would trample upon the rights of the Latter-day Saints would trample upon the rights of the Roman Catholic or of any other denomination who may be unpopular and too weak to defend themselves."

And finally, Brother Brigham on the subject (from Journal of Discourses 11:375):

""Mormonism" so-called, embraces every principle pertaining to life and salvation for time and eternity. No matter who has it. If the infidel has got truth it belongs to "Mormonism." The truth and sound doctrine possessed by the sectarian world, and they have a great deal, all belong to this church. As for their morality many of them are morally just as good as we are. All that is good, lovely, and praiseworthy belongs to this church and kingdom."

I will share this.

I believe it's a new day.

Important leaders in both camps are beginning to dialogue. I am acquainted with BYU professors who are dialoguing, for instance, with evangelical seminary presidents. I'm particularly thinking of Dr. Richard Mouw, President of Fuller Theological Seminary and Bob Millett, BYU faculty member. In fact, Dr. Mouw wrote the forward and afterward to Professor Millett's latest book. A thing unheard of a few years back!

Lynn