Are we losing our rising generation?

[Traveler]

I teach a youth Sunday school class in our ward.  Currently this is being done virtually with zoom.  During class my youthful students turn their audio off.  The primary reason for this is to cut out the background noise.  But I have also noticed that for most of the class my students have their video off as well.  I am inclined to think this is because the students do not want to provide feed back.  This means that if any teaching is going on or is possible - it is only through blind lecture.  Just about all the studies I have ever encountered rate lecture as a very poor form of learning or transfer of knowledge.  It is even less than reading which requires more cognitive attentions.

I am inclined to think that students under such conditions are tuned out - especially at younger ages.  I have also seen studies that show that virtual learning under COVID-19 restrictions is causing significant lower responses to testing.   

In contrast I caught a reference on talk radio today to a article about the current education in China.  That teaching is taking place in class room environments but also that to counter what the Chinese state considers an essential part of education (that is considered below what is needed) that something new is being required in the Chinese classroom.  The new requirement is to enhance teaching for young boys to become more manly and young girls to become more famine.  

 

The Traveler

[Jane_Doe]

I won't interpret them having cameras turned off a automatic "I'm not paying attention".  It's actually the default for a lot of people, and there could be a whole number of reasons.  Like I'll have my camera off regularly during RS because that one quiet time I got to sit down & eat and it's rude to eat in front of a camera.  Or I'll have it off because I've been in bed sick all day and I look like it.  None of those mean I'm not paying attention-- I very much enjoy RS as a rare opportunity to connect with other adult saints.  But I still look like I've been in bed sick all day.  

It a lot takes work to cultivate the "camera on" culture.  But it is possible.  

[Just_A_Guy]

I am in SS presidency, so I sit in on every youth class (I have to start the meeting) and have had to pinch-hit teaching a couple times.  And I agree—the challenge with Zoom teaching is to make it a *discussion*, not a *lecture*, even though the format really lends itself to the latter and not the former.

I look at teaching in church as comparable to surfing—you can’t precisely follow a pre-charted course; rather, you look for (and sometimes, make) waves and then try to ride them wherever they take you, making course corrections as the wave evolves.  I care less about imparting an encyclopedic knowledge of the subject matter, and more about leaving the students *wanting to know more* about the day’s key concept, knowing where to find more, and having had an enjoyable and spiritually edifying experience during the day’s class.

A few things I’ve seen and/or tried via Zoom that, taken together, have given some moderate success:

—one teacher makes it a point to log in before any of the kids.  As each one logs in he greets them in turn, by name, and builds a little rapport; with I find is reciprocated later in the lesson.

—I expressly ask the kids at the beginning of the session to turn on their video if possible.

—The really great teachers I’ve seen a) are careful to ask well-thought out, engaging lessons that don’t always have clear or easy answers (in other words—they don’t just ask whatever questions are in the manual); and b) are willing to offer their own insights in answer to those questions.  At least for me—I’m an introvert, and I consider it somewhat invasive for someone to ask me to share an opinion about a gospel topic.  I won’t usually open up and give a personal perspective unless I see the teacher willing to do the same thing.

—I’m still looking at new ways for students to interact.  Zoom has some polling features that we’ve had some fun with.  I’ve sometimes shown a Gospel-related piece of art (preferably a semi-obscure one that the students aren’t likely to have seen before) and invited the students to offer reactions to it; soliciting special input from students who I know are into art/drawing about the composition, lighting, and so on.  Sometimes I’ll announce that we’re going to show a video—and before starting the video I’ll call on 5-10 students and let each of them know that after we watch the video I’ll ask them to answer a specific question about a part of the video.  (I find people are more willing to speak out in class if they’ve had some time to think about their answers.). Zoom has a whiteboard feature that I need to explore more.

—I am finding that PowerPoint, during Zoom lessons, is generally overrated.  Too often it locks the teacher into a structure and the teacher doesn’t feel free to spontaneously explore topics that students may raise during the class; and it also pre-programs classes into trying to offer a “right” answer instead of speaking from the heart. Plus, visually, it reduces me to a tiny little window and removes the human aspect of the lesson.  I want my students to see ME and talk to ME, not some disembodied voice-over while they stare at pre-programmed blocks of text.

—Also:  I’m not a great video producer by any means, but I try to make sure that the video of my headshot is as appealing as possible—decent lighting, proper camera position, nice but not overpowering/distracting background, good posture, etc. 

Edited February 6, 2021 by Just_A_Guy

[Jane_Doe]

Awesome suggestions JAG. 

[Traveler]

I teach the 12 year old's.  In the past I found candy as a great means to get kids to respond and become engaged.   Every time some one responds I would toss them candy.  So far attempts to engage the students has had very limited response.  I do greet each student when they enter the session.  What I am finding that when one student turns off their video - most all will follow.  When this happens I will ask a specific student to respond to something simple - very often they do not respond.  I am quite sure that when I show a video - over half the students will miss part or all the video.

I am impressed that JAG has the success he does.  I am under the impression that some of my students are struggling with Zoom sessions and I am not sure that the spirit is as strong as when meeting face to face for lessons.  But then we have only been doing this for a couple of sessions.  My impression is that we are loosing ground in virtual teaching - especially with less active families.

 

The Traveler

[JohnsonJones]

I think we are losing our rising generations, but not because of bad lecturing, but because of self-education.  I think the more studious and intelligent the young individual is, the bigger chance that they will leave religion behind.

I've seen a LOT of this happening in real time, and especially moreso today with the essays students are writing.  They see hypocrisy from those who act in religion.

They say, by their fruits you can know them, and the fruits the students are seeing are the opposite of what they think the religions say the members should be. 

We take if for granted that these students NEED us to educate them (and they do, I'll get to that, but not in the way we think they do).   Today, whenever they have questions, they go look it up.  The internet is FULL of information, some of it good, much of it bad or incorrect.  However, many are smart enough to understand the basic ideas of Christianity.

One basic argument I've heard of in the past 3 months concerns how Christians are handling the pandemic in the US.  Their idea is that a person who lived according to the concepts in the New Testament would do ALL they could to help other people.  This includes not spreading a virus to others.  Thus, in their minds they feel those who are not selfish would wear a mask and social distance, if for no other reason than to try to keep others safe.  (and to be accurate, NOT ALL my students feel this way, but there are enough that I note that this is a rising trend among many of them, though we also have those that argue against masks and such as well).  It is a minimal effort, in their minds, to simply just care enough about others to at least try to do something, no matter how small it ultimately is.

The discussion then goes with them in how they see those that purportedly are Christian seem to the biggest groups of those refusing to do anything to even mitigate transmission of the virus.  They use this as a prime example of why they do not think they can believe in Christianity today.  The Christians do not even follow what they teach or say they believe.  The students say the Christians do the exact opposite.  Why should they follow (or continue to follow) a religion or teachings which the very adherents of do not?

This then leads them down the rabbit hole of research on the internet into Christianity (or in our case, our Church) where many facts are tossed in with opinion.

These students are not around to hear things about which they already can read or look up themselves, but they still need to be educated.  They need to learn how to tell the good from the bad, the right stuff from the wrong stuff. 

At the university we can try to teach critical thinking, and when we have them list sources, we refuse to accept sources we consider unreliable.  HOPEFULLY (and I think this actually is not working as well as some think it is at the university) they learn from this to tell reliable sources from unreliable sources.

However, that's not something we can do in Church or with Church lessons.  They are not being graded in the way school is graded, and they are not having a degree hung out over their head that they want to obtain and may not if they do not adhere to certain standards.  However, they still need to learn what is right and what is wrong.

The more inquisitive and intelligent students may have read a LOT about what you are teaching in your lesson already.  They may not want to talk to you about it directly though.  What they need to be taught is how to tell the good information from the bad information.  The ONLY way I think this can be done is to try to help them learn how to identify the Holy Ghost and to understand how to use it to tell them truth from other information that attempts to lead them to the wrong path.

I have been privileged to have a Young member in my classes this semester, however when she talked to me during office hours it was not about my class.  She used it for a different reason that was somewhat different.  She had institute classes, but had questions about what she read on the internet vs. what her teacher was telling her.  She had this distinct impression that the teacher and thus the church was gaslighting her about Church history.  She felt afraid to approach the teacher (so why she approached me, is also somewhat of a mystery but I think she felt that as I was more of a non-religious instructor of sorts, perhaps I would give a more even or unbiased view) with her questions, but did not feel intimidated to ask me.  She knew that I am a member, and I won't go much into the discussions except that it dealt a LOT with changes that the church has made in how it is discussing Church history and the events in church history recently.  These changes are being NOTED by these students and it seems causing many questions over what is correct and what is not. 

I don't know if I did any good.  I tried to explain to her about how we have to use the Holy Ghost and how to recognize it, but that can be a hard thing to help others identify at times.  Unfortunately, I think it is more important now, then ever before, that our young people learn how to identify and use the Holy Ghost.  From this young individual's questions I think hard times may be coming for our young people where it will become very evident who is being led by the Holy Ghost and who is not.  I fear that those who do not know how to be led by it may fall into dark paths in the near future if her line of questioning and reasoning is any indication. 

Thus, I think we need to educate our young people, but I think it is not necessarily through the lesson information itself, but helping them to be able to learn how to find the answers they personally seek themselves.  The ONLY way I can see that happening is if we can find someway to help them learn to use the Holy Ghost as from what I can see occurring with the young people I interact with is that soon, in the future, the Holy Ghost may be like that lighthouse in the storm, where our only guidance on what the correct choice is, is by listening to the Holy Ghost.

[mirkwood]

I have mine off because I'm sitting there in my sweat pants and a t shirt.

 

As to the title of this thread.  Yes, we are losing some.  I see far more inactive "youth" than when I was that age.

Edited February 6, 2021 by mirkwood

[Ironhold]

1 hour ago, mirkwood said:

As to the title of this thread.  Yes, we are losing some.  I see far more inactive "youth" than when I was that age.

In my experience, a key part of that is teachers and local leaders being slow to respond to changes in society and culture. 

There are a number of additional challenges out there today that often aren't being addressed, in large part because too many adults don't even know these problems even exist. or if they do know, they don't fully understand them.

[askandanswer]

In our ward we've been doing Priesthood or Gospel Doctrine every week via Zoom since about April. Relief Society have been a little less consistent, choosing to join in with the Zoom Priesthood lessons for a few months before deciding to go back to having their own meetings. Youth Sunday School went on for several months before it was discontinued due to lack of interest/attendance/participation from the youth. The default position for Relief Society, Priesthood and Gospel Doctrine was for cameras to be on and audio to be off, and for people to turn their audio on when they wanted to make a comment or question although there were still a lot of people like me who just left their camera and audio on all the time.

@JustAGuy I really like your suggestions about teaching via Zoom but am less likely to need or use them in the immediate future - today, for the first time since March, we will be resuming normal 2nd hour meetings for everybody and I'm really looking forward to it.  

[askandanswer]

On 2/6/2021 at 8:38 AM, Traveler said:

In contrast I caught a reference on talk radio today to a article about the current education in China.  That teaching is taking place in class room environments but also that to counter what the Chinese state considers an essential part of education (that is considered below what is needed) that something new is being required in the Chinese classroom.  The new requirement is to enhance teaching for young boys to become more manly and young girls to become more famine.  

 

The Traveler

For an alternative view, consider this article from the Financial Times a few days ago:

https://www.ft.com/content/7a8e473d-86c1-4875-811b-575df79a502a

 

    Hong Kong’s new national security education curriculum will force teachers to warn primary students as young as six years old against “subversion” and to throw out library books considered dangerous to the Chinese state.

Hong Kong’s education bureau released the guidelines on Thursday, which will also impact expat students at international schools. The department said that while they accepted these schools’ curricula was different, teachers would be expected to ensure students “acquire a correct and objective understanding” of principles in line with Beijing’s tough national security law introduced last year.

Authorities have come under pressure to make changes to the education system after pro-Beijing politicians and state media blamed teachers and the curriculum for the months-long anti-government protests in 2019, in which thousands of students took part.

The education overhaul shows that China’s crackdown on the former British colony has reached beyond jailing opposition leaders to reforming Hong Kong society to bring it more in line with the mainland.

The security law was a response to the pro-democracy protests, one of the biggest challenges to central authorities on Chinese soil in decades. Beijing’s supporters say that promoting patriotism in students will prevent future unrest.

“As far as prevention and education are concerned, all schools (including primary schools, secondary schools and kindergartens) have a significant role to play,” the city’s education bureau said in a statement.

The education bureau detailed specific measures for local schools, forcing teachers to warn primary and secondary students against “subversion” and “foreign interference”, as outlined in the new security law. Schools should stop students and teachers from participating in political activities and make reports to the police when necessary.

The bureau advised teachers and principals to closely inspect noticeboards in classrooms and to clear out library books that “endanger national security”.
 

[JohnsonJones]

21 hours ago, askandanswer said:

For an alternative view, consider this article from the Financial Times a few days ago:

https://www.ft.com/content/7a8e473d-86c1-4875-811b-575df79a502a

 

    Hong Kong’s new national security education curriculum will force teachers to warn primary students as young as six years old against “subversion” and to throw out library books considered dangerous to the Chinese state.

Hong Kong’s education bureau released the guidelines on Thursday, which will also impact expat students at international schools. The department said that while they accepted these schools’ curricula was different, teachers would be expected to ensure students “acquire a correct and objective understanding” of principles in line with Beijing’s tough national security law introduced last year.

Authorities have come under pressure to make changes to the education system after pro-Beijing politicians and state media blamed teachers and the curriculum for the months-long anti-government protests in 2019, in which thousands of students took part.

The education overhaul shows that China’s crackdown on the former British colony has reached beyond jailing opposition leaders to reforming Hong Kong society to bring it more in line with the mainland.

The security law was a response to the pro-democracy protests, one of the biggest challenges to central authorities on Chinese soil in decades. Beijing’s supporters say that promoting patriotism in students will prevent future unrest.

“As far as prevention and education are concerned, all schools (including primary schools, secondary schools and kindergartens) have a significant role to play,” the city’s education bureau said in a statement.

The education bureau detailed specific measures for local schools, forcing teachers to warn primary and secondary students against “subversion” and “foreign interference”, as outlined in the new security law. Schools should stop students and teachers from participating in political activities and make reports to the police when necessary.

The bureau advised teachers and principals to closely inspect noticeboards in classrooms and to clear out library books that “endanger national security”.
 

There are some scary things happening in Hong Kong and raises the thought to me that one thing seems apparent,

That the agreements made by the Chinese when the British left and their promises were unenforceable and when they realized this, they have simply decided to go and break the promises and agreements that they made about Hong Kong.

It should also serve as a Stark warning about how untrustworthy the Chinese currently are, but I doubt that any of our leaders will actually heed that warning.

Edited February 7, 2021 by JohnsonJones

[askandanswer]

56 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

There are some scary things happening in Hong Kong and raises the thought to me that one thing seems apparent,

That the agreements made by the Chinese when the British left and their promises were unenforceable and when they realized this, they have simply decided to go and break the promises and agreements that they made about Hong Kong.

It should also serve as a Stark warning about how untrustworthy the Chinese currently are, but I doubt that any of our leaders will actually heed that warning.

For me, this is a clear reminder of just how powerful school policies and practices can be as a lever for implementing long term social change. 

[Traveler]

9 hours ago, askandanswer said:

For me, this is a clear reminder of just how powerful school policies and practices can be as a lever for implementing long term social change. 

I believe there is a talk show host here in the USA (Rush Limbaugh) that says children's minds are full of mush.  I think he says this because their minds are easily molded and susceptible to all kinds of ideas.  What is left out of this discussion is that by time a person reaches adulthood - which is most definitely reached when one obtains an advanced college degree - that mush turns into a harder substance than any stone; which makes learning anything new impossible.

 

The Traveler

[Carborendum]

Yes, we're losing our rising generation.  Why wouldn't we?  We aren't protecting them from the rising evils in the world.

In past generations, it was enough to simply "go with the flow".  The society was "righteous enough" to allow a mostly hands off approach to parenting.  Today, the world is so full of the powers of the adversary, we need to take a MUCH more active role in parenting.  FHE is not just "a nice thing to do."   It is an imperative.  But too many parents don't take it so seriously.

Those children with parents who do not watch and warn will have a much harder time keeping their children in the faith than past generations have.

And I disagree that most of the children are doing so out of propriety or courtesy.  While certainly some are doing so, I believe most are simply playing on their phones at the time.

Edited February 8, 2021 by Carborendum