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Carborendum

What do you make of the ESG Score?

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Please don't jump to a conclusion if you've already heard about it.  Please read what I've written.  There is the "official story" and there is a possible conspiracy here that sounds all too much like the mark of the beast.  An apparent threat to freedom... or a conspiracy theory (but not all conspiracy theories are false, even if they are conspiracy theories).

The ESG (Environmental, Social, and Governance) Score is a measure of how socially conscious you are.  And I think everyone can clearly see by the title alone that it is clearly politically tilted.

I can only find one source that talks about it as a conspiracy.  All others talk about it on a high level in regards to corporations and investments.  They don't talk about it impacting individuals at all.

The official story is that this is an option for consumers to review for their choice of investments and companies to purchase from.  It sounds all free-market based and stuff.  But that alone means that it is a publicly available "liberal/conservative" score for any company you wish to patronize or investment you wish to make (like mutual funds and bonds).  Or a perfectly subtle way of targeting companies for boycott.

Yes, yes, most boycotts don't work.  But that's because it isn't systemic.  It isn't ingrained in the minds of the people.  But this program is designed to get into the minds of the people on a subtle level, and it is most certainly systemic.  It is specifically designed to be an automatic boycott without even declaring one.  One subtlety is that since most people haven't heard about it, all they know is that it is "just another credit score".  And who would want to invest in a company with a low credit score?  Who would want to sign a contract with them?

The conspiracy theory takes it to the next level.  Not only are corporations and investments getting scored, but soon individuals will be getting scored.  And this score is supposed to REPLACE (not supplement) the current credit scores.  They are gathering data on what posts people make on social media, what purchases you make, where you live, where you travel, what companies you patronize, what investment decisions you make, to whom you donate (such as religious organizations)…  And if you don't score well enough, then you will not be able to get a home mortgage or qualify for a credit card.  Some apartments will only rent to people with a minimum credit score.  Some businesses will only hire if you have a minimum credit score.  It is a way of politically blackballing without actually asking any questions in an interview.

Does anyone else see how this can EASILY be called the mark of the beast?

DISCLAIMER: I'm not saying it is true.  I could only find one source (that I usually find credible) that talks about it being used as a replacement for the individual consumer.  But...

  • I find the official story (affecting only corporations and investments) to be bad enough.  That alone "smells" of the mark of the beast.
  • I find this "theory" to be believable.  But I can't confirm it through any other source.  Yet, it seems like the next logical step.  That is how our current credit scores were developed in the first place.
  • I find it to be a path that will have a tough time actually working without a HUGE movement of the majority of financial institutions backing it, the major social media platforms being complicit, and a majority of federal government pushing for it.  Oh, wait, they already are.
Edited by Carborendum

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1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

The conspiracy theory takes it to the next level.  Not only are corporations and investments getting scored, but soon individuals will be getting scored.  And this score is supposed to REPLACE (not supplement) the current credit scores.  They are gathering data on what posts people make on social media, what purchases you make, where you live, where you travel, what companies you patronize, what investment decisions you make, to whom you donate (such as religious organizations)…  And if you don't score well enough, then you will not be able to get a home mortgage or qualify for a credit card.  Some apartments will only rent to people with a minimum credit score.  Some businesses will only hire if you have a minimum credit score.  It is a way of politically blackballing without actually asking any questions in an interview.

Does anyone else see how this can EASILY be called the mark of the beast?

Every time I think there is a threshold that corps/govt/society won't cross... they do, AND then they do it again and again.
If we can live in a country where corps can push this (image below) garbage on us, and worse patrons gobble it up, then not only do I believe the "conspiracy theory" of an ESG score, I believe half of Americans would rally behind it under some kind of social justice banner of blah, blah.

People have lost their minds at this point.

df520a51394d3570.thumb.jpeg.0381bb2fc858b18d7f0e66c59354b356.jpeg

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47 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

If we can live in a country where corps can push this (image below)

df520a51394d3570.thumb.jpeg.0381bb2fc858b18d7f0e66c59354b356.jpeg

A black owned company that produces Teriyaki mix?  That's cultural appropriation!!!

1 hour ago, mirkwood said:

Yes

And that is why this "political" topic is very much a moral/religious one.

Regardless of THIS mechanism (ESG), there will be SOME device/mechanism where we will be forced to choose between making a living and living according to our deeply held religious values.

Forget about race.  We're all on the same side about racism being evil.  Forget about women's equality.  We all want to have everyone treated fairly.  Forget about immigration.  That's not a moral issue, but a practical one.  Forget about environment which is more about proof than practicality or morality.  If anyone is convinced that something is significantly bad for the environment, I think most moral people would do the practical thing to help preserve the planet.

It is about abortion, LGBT, and it's about the Constitution.  It's about freedom to live our own lives according to the dictates of our own conscience.

That is why when we ban political speech, it is difficult to determine where to draw the line when politics is attacking our freedom of religion and freedom of conscience.

Edited by Carborendum

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Yes, I could see that happening. I believe the mark in our hands/foreheads will be more of a belief system rather than a physical mark...but it could physical as well. Regardless of how it comes to pass though, it most definitely will. It would be wise to get out of debt as quickly as possible, and to teach our children to live as self-sufficiently as they can, as the government will not be on the Lord's side in any way. Live within your means, get as much food storage as possible, grow a garden, get some chickens, etc...

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On 3/8/2021 at 7:36 AM, Carborendum said:

The conspiracy theory takes it to the next level.  Not only are corporations and investments getting scored, but soon individuals will be getting scored.  And this score is supposed to REPLACE (not supplement) the current credit scores.  They are gathering data on what posts people make on social media, what purchases you make, where you live, where you travel, what companies you patronize, what investment decisions you make, to whom you donate (such as religious organizations)…  And if you don't score well enough, then you will not be able to get a home mortgage or qualify for a credit card.  Some apartments will only rent to people with a minimum credit score.  Some businesses will only hire if you have a minimum credit score.  It is a way of politically blackballing without actually asking any questions in an interview.

Does anyone else see how this can EASILY be called the mark of the beast?

DISCLAIMER: I'm not saying it is true.  I could only find one source (that I usually find credible) that talks about it being used as a replacement for the individual consumer.  But...

  • I find the official story (affecting only corporations and investments) to be bad enough.  That alone "smells" of the mark of the beast.
  • I find this "theory" to be believable.  But I can't confirm it through any other source.  Yet, it seems like the next logical step.  That is how our current credit scores were developed in the first place.
  • I find it to be a path that will have a tough time actually working without a HUGE movement of the majority of financial institutions backing it, the major social media platforms being complicit, and a majority of federal government pushing for it.  Oh, wait, they already are.

I suppose one would see.  That sounds rather incredulous.

For a company, they follow fads in order to appear in step with portions of the consumer base which they feel will increase their sales.  In many instances they are trying to appeal to two opposite sides at the same time.  They follow different fads and ideas that influence the current sales purposes of the consumers.

Applying something like this to individuals instead of a credit score makes absolutely NO SENSE.  In the West (America and Europe) with capitalism, that would be a good way to make bad investments and go bankrupt.  The reason companies accept the usage of credit scores and other measures in the first place is to evaluate risk.  Using something like an ESG gives no sense of how risky or not risky an investment with an individual would be.  If a Bank or other company decided to base their loans on such a thing, their actuaries and others would have insane fits.  There is no purpose for a score (individual ESG) like that except to cause financial institutions that base their loans and other items on such a ridiculous score to go bankrupt. 

I cannot see any organization that uses credit scores to see the viability of investments using such an "ESG" score in place of a credit score.  I'd say this is NOT going to happen.  Even if there is some sort of "big" overshadowing "brother" out there that runs the entire system, this is going to kill that system and make a lot of them go bankrupt and lose power if applied on an individual level.  They would not do something that would do that to them.

My opinion currently is that this entire ESG for individuals is not going to ever occur.  It does not make sense economically.  As we say in history, follow the money, and money would not support something like this from what I think.

However, we will see.  If it rises up for some reason and bankrupts the entire Western economy, I guess I'd have thought wrong.  I don't see it, but I suppose we will see.

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1 hour ago, JohnsonJones said:

.....

My opinion currently is that this entire ESG for individuals is not going to ever occur.  It does not make sense economically.  As we say in history, follow the money, and money would not support something like this from what I think.

However, we will see.  If it rises up for some reason and bankrupts the entire Western economy, I guess I'd have thought wrong.  I don't see it, but I suppose we will see.

It has been reported (Fox News) that written into the Paris Accords is a provision that will eventually affect one's credit score - but only in the USA.  It is important to understand how much a personal credit score affects one's individual's economy - even the cost of money transfers and using a credit card for purchases - think of how difficult it would be to function in our economy without a credit card.  Anyway one's credit score would be dependent on their carbon footprint - even more than their ability and history of payments.  That footprint would reflect if you used "carbon" fuels rather than solar and wind power, drive an electric car and how much one travels and even where one works - for starters.

But we also must be careful not to make this a political discussion because of forum rules.

 

The Traveler

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Also, on a side note, Ebay is now requiring sellers to fork over their social security number in order to be able to sell anything on their site. They say it is for "required tax reporting purposes", and they are moving towards to self-managed pay system. Even if that is true, that is just another tool that the adversary can use now and in the future to further his purposes. When the scriptures say that none will be able to buy or sell without the mark, they speak the truth. This may seem like a little flaxen cord to some, and I get that their private company can do what they want, but the day is coming when more measures will be put in place by greater powers to try and control people's beliefs and/or behavior. Get out of debt and practice provident living.

(I am not one of those crazy bomb shelter preppers or anti-government btw; but I do dislike abuse and corruption)

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On 3/9/2021 at 9:18 AM, JohnsonJones said:

Applying something like this to individuals instead of a credit score makes absolutely NO SENSE.  In the West (America and Europe) with capitalism, that would be a good way to make bad investments and go bankrupt.  The reason companies accept the usage of credit scores and other measures in the first place is to evaluate risk.  Using something like an ESG gives no sense of how risky or not risky an investment with an individual would be.  If a Bank or other company decided to base their loans on such a thing, their actuaries and others would have insane fits.  There is no purpose for a score (individual ESG) like that except to cause financial institutions that base their loans and other items on such a ridiculous score to go bankrupt. 

I cannot see any organization that uses credit scores to see the viability of investments using such an "ESG" score in place of a credit score.  I'd say this is NOT going to happen.  Even if there is some sort of "big" overshadowing "brother" out there that runs the entire system, this is going to kill that system and make a lot of them go bankrupt and lose power if applied on an individual level.  They would not do something that would do that to them.

My opinion currently is that this entire ESG for individuals is not going to ever occur.  It does not make sense economically.  As we say in history, follow the money, and money would not support something like this from what I think.

You mentioned a few things that got me to thinking.  What if it is NOT going to REPLACE the credit score.  But supplement it?

IOW, if you have a poor ESG score, you will not even be considered AT ALL.  But if you have a good one, they will then go ahead and look at your credit score and things will go on as usual based on the credit score.

So, if you're not into the same value system, then you're not going to be able to buy or sell.  But if you're part of the value system, then they will treat you like a normal person.

Example: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56340162

Not that they would accept someone who couldn't do the job.  But their first elimination question was whether they fit the profile.  THEN they want to see if they can do the job.  

That said, I believe it is quite telling that they rejected the already completed translation (which has already been paid for) and have yet to find anyone qualified that fits the profile.  Yet they are willing to wait on publication and profits until they can find one who DOES fit the profile.

Edited by Carborendum

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If they implemented the ESG today, and statuettes labeling every company as being owned by a specific color person, I think the left would find that their loud supporters aren’t nearly as massive as the average consumer base.

In  most legitimate situations where the true masses get to speak, the ideals put out by the loud minority are not reciprocated. I remember my wife seeing how many states were I acting anti-trans laws and being surprised because all she was hearing was the left minority and they were all about trans equality.

I argue (for right now at least) most people are actually moderate left/right but ideologically further left/right because their news sources are telling them that everyone is becoming fascist/communist.

Go and watch any pro far left/right video on YouTube with comments enabled and you will see a never ending supply of people who disagree. Transgender athletes, BLM riots, white supremacy,  etc

Edited by Fether

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7 hours ago, Vort said:

I totally would be if I had the land and the money.

I can supply the land if you can supply the money!   Recently got me a nice 15.5 acre plot about 40 min from Independence.  Only 4 minutes from the local chapel too!  🙂

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30 minutes ago, person0 said:

I can supply the land if you can supply the money!   Recently got me a nice 15.5 acre plot about 40 min from Independence.  Only 4 minutes from the local chapel too!  🙂

How mucho, if I may ask? (If I may not ask, then never mind.)

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On 3/12/2021 at 12:11 AM, Vort said:

How mucho, if I may ask? (If I may not ask, then never mind.)

How much did I pay?
~83K (Full plot was double that)
The whole thing is 31.5 acres.  We own 1/2.  Here's a satellite view.
image.thumb.png.2206a5df3235858830f959350648150e.png

Edited by person0

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One day when we get the house payed off, we plan to see if my brother--in-law won't sell us any acres of the family ranch land. My old co-worker spent five years building a house from scratch in the same area.

 

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13 hours ago, person0 said:

How much did I pay?
~83K (Full plot was double that)
The whole thing is 31.5 acres.  We own 1/2.  Here's a satellite view.
image.thumb.png.2206a5df3235858830f959350648150e.png

 

 

NICE!!!

 

 

Near the dark patch in the middle is where our family has about 180 acres.  My wife and I own one of the lots (about 10 acres).  In the second picture when you zoom in on google maps you can see my truck and my FIL's truck parked near the streambed.

 

cw1.jpg

 

cw2.jpg

 

 

Edited by mirkwood

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2 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

 

 

NICE!!!

 

 

Near the dark patch in the middle is where our family has about 180 acres.  My wife and I own one of the lots (about 10 acres).  In the second picture when you zoom in on google maps you can see my truck and my FIL's truck parked near the streambed.

 

cw2.jpg

 

cw2.jpg

 

 

Curious if your land is also in the Independence area? Just trying to see if there is a trend out there? We have land in our own state, but not over there... (currently).

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