Jonah

The Three Witnesses see sacred items

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Would someone clarify this section.

D&C 17

Introductory notes - 1–4, By faith the Three Witnesses will see the plates and other 
sacred items; 

"Behold, I say unto you, that you must rely upon my word, which if you do with full 
purpose of heart, you shall have a view of the plates, and also of the breastplate, 
the sword of Laban, the Urim and Thummim, which were given to the brother of Jared 
upon the mount, when he talked with the Lord face to face, and the miraculous directors 
which were given to Lehi while in the wilderness, on the borders of the Red Sea".

Is there a record of the 3 Witnesses ever seeing the sword of Laban or Lehi's 
directors?

Which of the mentioned items (plates, breastplate, sword, Urim and Thummim) were 
given to Jared's brother upon the mount?  When I read Ether 6:1-2, he goes to the 
mount and comes back from the mount with only the stones.

Jonah

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2 hours ago, Jonah said:

Is there a record of the 3 Witnesses ever seeing the sword of Laban or Lehi's 
directors?

Both David Whitmer and Oliver Cowdery testify that they saw other objects. From Whitmer's account:

Quote

[The angel] showed to us the plates, the sword of Laban, the Directors [that is, the Liahona], the Urim and Thummim, and other records. … [T]here appeared, as it were, a table, with many records on it — besides the plates of the Book of Mormon, also the sword of Laban, the Directors, and the Interpreters. I saw them as plain as I see this bed [striking his hand upon the bed beside him]. … I saw the Interpreters in the holy vision; they looked like whitish stones put in the rim of a bow — looked like spectacles, only much larger.

You can read more about the witnesses' testimonies in Richard Lloyd Anderson's Investigating the Book of Mormon Witnesses.

2 hours ago, Jonah said:

Which of the mentioned items (plates, breastplate, sword, Urim and Thummim) were 
given to Jared's brother upon the mount?  When I read Ether 6:1-2, he goes to the 
mount and comes back from the mount with only the stones.

From the verses you quote, it's assumed that the Lord gave the brother the interpreters upon the mount.

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@Jonah What do you think about the testimony of the 3 witnesses? They state that they saw (among other things) the plates from which Joseph purported to translate the Book of Mormon, and that an angel told them the translation was correct. The History of the Church says this experience was split between 2 parties - that essentially the experience was reproduced for the 3rd witness.

What do you think about the testimony of the 8 witnesses? They state that they handled physical plates and got a good look at them, turning the pages.

These witnesses all lived long enough that they could testify again in their own words of their experience with the plates. And a few of them engaged with the press to correct misconceptions and rumors that were circulated of their denials. In the case of some of them, they fell out with Joseph Smith but continued to testify of the experience with the plates. What do you make of this?

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The claims of the witnesses sort of demand that we learn a little about who they were.  Here's a recent article from the Interpreter Foundation:

https://journal.interpreterfoundation.org/variety-and-complexity-in-the-witnesses-to-the-book-of-mormon/#more-42654

Quote

Abstract: This paper examines the testimonies of the witnesses of the Book of Mormon— not only the Three Witnesses and the Eight Witnesses, but many others who experienced and testified of the reality of the Book of Mormon plates. Together, these testimonies offer impressive support for the claims of Joseph Smith regarding the Book of Mormon and, thus, the Restoration. The variety and complexity of their collective testimony makes finding a single, alternative, non-divine explanation for the witness experiences challenging, indeed.

 

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15 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

The claims of the witnesses sort of demand that we learn a little about who they were.  Here's a recent article from the Interpreter Foundation:

https://journal.interpreterfoundation.org/variety-and-complexity-in-the-witnesses-to-the-book-of-mormon/#more-42654

It doesn't really matter to some people.

Quote

11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

15 For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

Matt: 13:11-17

It is as @Jonah quoted:

Quote

 By faith the Three Witnesses will see the plates and other sacred items; 

That is why a million people could have witnessed it and testified of it.  These skeptics choose to be blind anyway.  They have no faith.

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Is there a record of the 3 Witnesses ever seeing the sword of Laban or Lehi's 


directors?

Yes, Oliver Cowdery saw the sword of Laban along with Joseph Smith when they entered a cave in the hill Cumorah.  David Whitmer saw the sword and the directors in 1829 along with Smith and Cowdery.  A little after that, Martin Harris saw the sword as well (he was with Joseph Smith).

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On 3/25/2021 at 12:04 PM, Suzie said:

 

 

Yes, Oliver Cowdery saw the sword of Laban along with Joseph Smith when they entered a cave in the hill Cumorah.  David Whitmer saw the sword and the directors in 1829 along with Smith and Cowdery.  A little after that, Martin Harris saw the sword as well (he was with Joseph Smith).

Who owned the sword given to the brother of Jared on the mount before it became known
as the sword of Laban?

Edited by Jonah

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19 minutes ago, Jonah said:

Whitmer went a little further when he wrote (xxxxxxx) Therein he explains why he left the church.

Ah, there we have it folks.
What Jonah really wanted to share with us all.
You too can leave the Church, just like Whitmer, just follow his link.

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1 hour ago, Jonah said:

Who owned the sword given to the brother of Jared on the mount before it became known
as the sword of Laban?

In D&C 17, the modifier about being “given to the brother of Jared on the mount” applies only to the Urim and Thummim (see Ether 3:23).  The plates, breastplate, and sword were never possessed by the brother of Jared.

Author Don Bradley has floated the possibility that the Sword of Laban may have originated with Joseph (son of Israel) and that the contents of the stone box Joseph Smith found paralleled the items kept in the Hebrew Ark of the Covenant; but that’s all (reasonably well-informed) speculation.  

Edited by Just_A_Guy

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On 3/29/2021 at 6:57 PM, Carborendum said:

I guess he got tired of people not jumping onto the elephant.

Pardon my ignorance.....

I am not sure what exactly is meant by "Three Witnesses" and I am wondering if the LDS has a teaching on the Two Witnesses of the Book of Revelation.  Near death experiencer Dr. Kevin Zadai says he was taught during his NDE that Elijah and Enoch would return to the earth during the Great Tribulation..... .and would eventually be martyred by the anti-Christ fellow.  

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/nt/rev/11?lang=eng

 

 

Quote

 

3 And I will give apower unto my two bwitnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to aturn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all bplagues, as often as they will.

7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall aovercome them, and bkill them.

8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was acrucified.

9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13 And the same hour was there a great aearthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

 

 

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On 3/24/2021 at 1:33 PM, Jonah said:

Would someone clarify this section.

D&C 17

Introductory notes - 1–4, By faith the Three Witnesses will see the plates and other 
sacred items; 

"Behold, I say unto you, that you must rely upon my word, which if you do with full 
purpose of heart, you shall have a view of the plates, and also of the breastplate, 
the sword of Laban, the Urim and Thummim, which were given to the brother of Jared 
upon the mount, when he talked with the Lord face to face, and the miraculous directors 
which were given to Lehi while in the wilderness, on the borders of the Red Sea".

Is there a record of the 3 Witnesses ever seeing the sword of Laban or Lehi's 
directors?

Which of the mentioned items (plates, breastplate, sword, Urim and Thummim) were 
given to Jared's brother upon the mount?  When I read Ether 6:1-2, he goes to the 
mount and comes back from the mount with only the stones.

Jonah

 

Ah yes.... now that I have read the opening post it seems that there is virtually no connection between the Two Witnesses of Revelation eleven with the Three witnesses referred to in the opening post.  

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