Are we alive?

[Traveler]

On 4/26/2021 at 2:10 AM, Jamie123 said:

I disagree.

According to most authorities a "virus" is a code fragment that attaches itself to an an executable file and runs when that program executes. One of the things it can do when it runs is to make copies of itself to other executable files. It is therefore akin to a regular virus, which attaches itself to existing DNA with a similar effect. But not everyone owould agree that even this kind of virus is "alive" (in the sense that a mouse, or even an amoeba is "alive") so perhaps that's not very helpful.

There are other kinds of malware more like living organisms, such as "worms" which are complete stand-alone programs, which can even propagate between hosts in a network. Some people refer to these as "viruses" - though others say this is incorrect. Computer malware is a relatively new subject area that a stable system of nomenclature has not yet evolved.

Merriam Webster defines "antidotal" as:

and "antidote" as:

Are you sure you don't mean "anecdotal"? 

Thank you - you are correct I meant anecdotal.

There is a problem with artificial intelligence being a "kind" of life form.  In essence we really do not know that much about what defines life.  The only examples we have are here on this earth.  So that the common statement is "life as we know it".   There is a question if life really exists here on earth or if such existence is a virtual reality.

 

The Traveler

[Traveler]

1 hour ago, Jamie123 said:

While we're on the subject of "anecdotal evidence", it's surprising how often it does get used.

For example, I read a few years ago about a judge who, after sentencing someone for murder, observed that this particular murderer - together with several others whose trials he had presided over - was a user of what he called "violent pornography" and how the government must therefore crack down on violent pornography and make it illegal.

Now I'm not suggesting that violent pornography is a good thing (far from it!) but this cannot be good reasoning. For one thing, it fails to consider how many viewers of violent pornography do not commit murder. Secondly, even if the two things were statistically correlated, that does not establish a causal link. Removing violent pornography could have as much effect on the murder rate as increasing the population of pirates would have on global temperatures.

 

 

One of the main scientific models of prediction is called Chaos Theory.  The problem with chaos theory predictions (modeling) is that the model will only respond based on known and included parameters.  If there is any unknown parameter, even a seemingly insignificant parameter - the results are uncertain.  This uncertainty is sometimes called the butterfly effect.  But even such considerations are not necessarily conclusive.   It all boils down to - we do not know what we do not know.

We often think in terms of cause and effect or black and white.  But doing so often introduces contradictions.  It is my personal belief that a contradiction only means that we do not have all the necessary data.  Your global temperature verses number of pirates is a possible example in that the number of pirates may not be a cause of increasing global temperatures but increasing global temperatures may be a contributing cause of piracy.   The same could apply to violent pyrography.    Another way of looking at this is the concept of treating a symptom instead of the cause.  But then - with the example of a headache - treating the symptom may be an acceptable temporary solution.   Though it is quite obvious that the reason for the headache was not the absents of medication - aspirin or whatever. 

Getting back to the op of this thread - are we alive?  We are now getting back to the basics of knowledge.  It has been suggested that there are different kinds of knowledge - and I personally align my thinking to such.  It seems to me that there are at least two kinds of knowledge empirical and spiritual.  Empirical is the easy kind to define and some have concluded that it is the only kind.  I admit that such arguments are quite sound but the problem is demonstrated by this thread - obviously something is missing.  I believe the other kind of knowledge is spiritual.  The nature of spiritual knowledge is most difficult to define.  Examples are concepts of justice, freedom, liberty and even right verses wrong.

Though we deal (sometimes poorly) with "spiritual" issues that seem to defy conclusive definitions we all still hold to them - especially in social settings.  Perhaps the dealing with uncertainty is a primary factor that defines life - or perhaps what is intelligent life.

 

The Traveler

Edited April 27, 2021 by Traveler

[Carborendum]

4 hours ago, Jamie123 said:

While we're on the subject of "anecdotal evidence", it's surprising how often it does get used.

I misread it.  I thought it was comparing global temperatures with global Pilates.  Yes, I'm Asian.  Don't you laugh at me!

[Vort]

50 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I misread it.  I thought it was comparing global temperatures with global Pilates.  Yes, I'm Asian.  Don't you laugh at me!

Seems like such l/r confusion with the word "pirate" was at the heart of the backstory for The Pirates of Penzance.

[Jamie123]

51 minutes ago, Vort said:

Seems like such l/r confusion with the word "pirate" was at the heart of the backstory for The Pirates of Penzance.

I love The Pirates of Penzance! My daughter and I once performed "A Policeman's Lot is Not a Happy One" together in a Church variety show. (I played the sergeant and my daughter played all the other policemen.) I'll have to see if I can find a photo of us in our "uniforms"!

On another occasion we did the "Heavy Dragoon" song out of Patience - though I rewrote the words to contain more up-to-date references (Churchill, Seinfeld and Harry Potter!)

Did you ever see the movie version of Pirates of Penzance with Angela Lansury as Ruth, and Kevin Klein as the Pirate King? The police sergeant in that was hilarious!

Edited April 27, 2021 by Jamie123

[Vort]

29 minutes ago, Jamie123 said:

Did you ever see the movie version of Pirates of Penzance with Angela Lansury as Ruth, and Kevin Klein as the Pirate King? The police sergeant in that was hilarious!

I love that musical, but I'm not remembering the police sergeant. I do remember the Modern Major General, though. Who can forget him?

[Jamie123]

12 hours ago, Vort said:

I love that musical, but I'm not remembering the police sergeant. I do remember the Modern Major General, though. Who can forget him?

Who indeed? George Rose: he also played Alfie Doolittle in the stage version of My Fair Lady. (I bet he was great, though I've only ever seen the movie version with Audrey Hepburn and Rex Harrison*.)

This clip has him in, together with Tony Azito as the police sergeant. I love his reaction every time his men start melting away at the thought of meeting the pirates!

Pirates of Penzance - When the Foeman bares his Steel (Tarantara) - YouTube

* I'm told that Rex Harrison was something of a git in real life, which disappoints me because I've always loved his screen persona. Audrey Hepburn is my all-time goddess. I used to have a huge poster of her on the wall over my desk at work.