Commercial Racism


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4 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Hey, just pretend she was a woman exposing her shoulders. Then she would have deserved being cat called, so it’s the same thing taken to another level.

there. Last word is all yours. 

You like to pretend that insults are strictly joking between friends. But then you misuse such insults to level cutting and unfair personal allegations against your so-called friends, all with what you think is the deniable plausibility of "Hey, just a joke, buddy! What are you getting all uptight about?"

Bull crap. I recognize your game, and I won't play it.

By the way, your insinuation that I think a woman baring her shoulders deserves being catcalled is a lie. Not a joke, a lie. You are lying. And that's not a joke.

Edited by Vort
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18 hours ago, Vort said:

You like to pretend that insults are strictly joking between friends. But then you misuse such insults to level cutting and unfair personal allegations against your so-called friends, all with what you think is the deniable plausibility of "Hey, just a joke, buddy! What are you getting all uptight about?"

Bull crap. I recognize your game, and I won't play it.

By the way, your insinuation that I think a woman baring her shoulders deserves being catcalled is a lie. Not a joke, a lie. You are lying. And that's not a joke.

Actually I was deadly serious in your case. Not joking. That’s between friends. Try to intimidate someone else. I’m not afraid of you. You can bully others, but not me. And you hate that. 
 

You are showing your arrogance and stupidity by claiming you know my personality and intentions. 

Edited by LDSGator
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1 minute ago, LDSGator said:

Actually I was deadly serious in your case. Not joking. That’s between friends. We aren’t there.

You don’t intimidate or frighten me either.  

So much for having the last word. Another lie, apparently.

I had thought we were friends until fairly recently. I had valued you as a friend and had tried to treat you as such. But as you have decided, we're not there. Guess we never will be.

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18 hours ago, Vort said:

Another lie, apparently.

Calling me a liar shows your lack of honor and integrity. It’s very validating to see. I was correct. Keep it up tough guy. Once again, your true colors are showing. 

Edited by LDSGator
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Dang folks, Friday afternoons are supposed to be happy times.

Principle: Responding to speech with violence is illegal and immoral.
Principle: If you go looking for trouble, you'll find it.

From where I'm standing, both of those principles get to be true at the same time.

 

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In the legal world, words have different definitions than Webster's (etc.)  Words and their legal definitions matter when talking about criminal conduct.  Murder and manslaughter both involve a death.  The actions equating to them are different and matter.  Short version, homicide (murder) is preplanned killing.  Manslaughter is actions that were reckless and cause death.

 

Just like the difference between a robbery and a burglary.  People call us all the time saying they have been robbed, but really they have been burglarized.  A robbery is an act of violence used against an individual(s) to steal property.  A burglary is breaking into a structure and stealing stuff.  Big difference between the two.

 

@Vort @LDSGator both of you take a deep breath and chill.

 

Or else  ;)

 

Taser X26 Spark Test - YouTube

 

 

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If I had to make the choice between being a victim of repeated racial slurs or the victim of a Homicide ... While I wouldn't like either option the choice would be easy.  The slurs every time.   And I would figure most people would also make the same choice.  In fact it is such a clear choice I would think it so much that I would question the reasoning ability of anyone making a different choice.

As such the seems that the moral outrage calculus is easy...   Homicidal actions are wrong... and so are racial slurs.  Greater then lesser in our expressions of outrage.  So when someone expresses their outrage at the racial slurs but the Homicidal action gets a 'well that is bad too' it does call into question if we are operating on even remotely similar moral/ethical systems. 

Sadly that does seem to be the way our society is going.  When racial slurs are used to justify homicides, physical attacks, or property destruction.  I think we need to be very clear that no it is not acceptable in any way shape or form.

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Two relevant scriptures

5  Know ye not, my son, that these things are an abomination in the sight of the Lord; yea, most abominable above all sins save it be the shedding of innocent blood or denying the Holy Ghost?

(Book of Mormon | Alma 39:5)

 

 

11  Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12  Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

(New Testament | Matthew 5:11 - 12)

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On 5/14/2021 at 5:16 PM, NeuroTypical said:

 

Principle: Responding to speech with violence is illegal and immoral.
Principle: If you go looking for trouble, you'll find it.

 

Immoral? Absolutely. Couldn’t agree more. Horrible, horrible horrible. A true tragedy. This is actually incredibly unpleasant to defend the kid. 
 

This is not about racial slurs or free speech. 

The awkward truth is that the old man apparently ASKED TO FIGHT and then took aggressive action. He opened his mouth (take away the slur) and backed it up by acting aggressively, thus forcing the kid to act in self defense. 

The old dude was causing problems and they must have been bad enough he was asked to leave. He left, then parked his car and returned and was asked to leave again, started throwing the racial slurs and stepped towards the young man challenging him to a fight and the young man punched him once in the jaw causing the old dude to fall backwards and strike his head on the pavement. 

The old man clearly planned the assault by yelling, refusing to leave, and then escalating the situation by stepping forward towards him. A reasonable man would conclude he was about to get assaulted. Yes, even a 77 year old can strangle someone. Yes, even a 77 year old can conceal a gun/knife, etc. 
 

 Corey swung once, and once that situation was defused, he stopped the action. 

It’s different than having car trouble, yelling “I’d sell this thing for a dime!” And then refusing when I give you a dime two seconds later. They had time to “cool down”. Age does not mean you are not accountable for your words and actions, sadly. 

You know me @NeuroTypical. I’m really stupid, naive, immoral and evil incarnate (someone actually called me that. I liked it so much that I stole it as a nickname) . But, silly me, I still think words (and, cough cough, actions) have meaning. Regardless of age, if you ask someone to fight, you are, at least partially accountable for your black eye.  Or, tragically, must worse. 

 

Edited by LDSGator
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I do not like to say this, but with the current indoctrination going on with critical race theory in too many institutions expect racism to get worse in America.  Critical race theory teaches nothing matters except race which is a disgusting doctrine that sows the seeds of hate which will lead to more violence in this nation.

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17 hours ago, LDSGator said:

The awkward truth is that the old man apparently ASKED TO FIGHT and then took aggressive action. 

Yep, engaging in consensual mutual combat may be a mitigating factor that works in the defendant's favor.  Earthly justice is earthly.

And yep, a 26 yr old beating an old man to death, no matter how mouthy and aggressive the old man was, says something about the 26 yr old.  No matter what earthly justice is done, we can rest assured that God's justice will be perfectly righteous.  As someone who watches a lot of earthly justice, I look forward to seeing the real deal eventually.

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15 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

As someone who watches a lot of earthly justice, I look forward to seeing the real deal eventually.

I cringe to think of divine justice, because in that case we are all doomed. Yes, I include myself, the kid, the old man, @NeuroTypical and you reading this. I pray for divine mercy. 

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  • 9 months later...

https://www.fox13news.com/news/dunkin-worker-who-fatally-punched-77-year-old-customer-sentenced-to-2-years-of-house-arrest?utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR099SveV7cQRUN_L9zbq26WShX-arAJ5cCgFC8Yz4wS4lWvJseQAjlJp20

Turns out that the dead guy was on the sexual offenders list and had a long, long rap sheet, including many crimes against children.
 

The prosecutors basically gave Puljos a slap on the wrist because they knew prosecuting him for “killing” a racist sex offender wouldn’t further their careers if they decided to run for higher office.

Edited by LDSGator
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20 hours ago, LDSGator said:

https://www.fox13news.com/news/dunkin-worker-who-fatally-punched-77-year-old-customer-sentenced-to-2-years-of-house-arrest?utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR099SveV7cQRUN_L9zbq26WShX-arAJ5cCgFC8Yz4wS4lWvJseQAjlJp20

Turns out that the dead guy was on the sexual offenders list and had a long, long rap sheet, including many crimes against children.
 

The prosecutors basically gave Puljos a slap on the wrist because they knew prosecuting him for “killing” a racist sex offender wouldn’t further their careers if they decided to run for higher office.

We refer to one branch of our government as the judicial system which means that branch is the system of justice.  It is my belief that such a title is misleading and unjustified (pun intended).  We should call that particular branch of our government the legal system or the legal branch of our government.  By definition the operations are legal but by no means or way a representation of justice and citizens would understand better the results and intent of our laws. 

 

The Traveler

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1 hour ago, Traveler said:

We refer to one branch of our government as the judicial system which means that branch is the system of justice.  It is my belief that such a title is misleading and unjustified (pun intended).  We should call that particular branch of our government the legal system or the legal branch of our government.  By definition the operations are legal but by no means or way a representation of justice and citizens would understand better the results and intent of our laws. 

 

The Traveler

 Wouldn't the legislative branch be more likely to be called legal branch? I think it makes sense that the judicial branch is so called. They adjudicate legal matters, after all.

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As I understand it, etymologically “judicial” comes from the Latin word for “judgment” whereas “legislative” and “legal” both derive from the Latin word for “law”.  Which makes sense—the legislative branch (theoretically) creates the laws; the judicial branch (theoretically) judges conflicts in accordance with those laws.

From an architectural standpoint, the judicial branch judges. One could argue that there’s no direct universal sociological requirement that the judgments be just; they just have to be judgments that the broader society is willing to accept in accordance with its own values.  Of course, our particular society places value on a particular concept of “justice”, so we expect the judicial branch to deliver it (and indeed, may well rebel against a system that fails to do so).  But from a civic stability standpoint, all you need is some sort of conflict resolution system—just or not—that a critical mass of society is willing to go along with.

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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54 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

But from a civic stability standpoint, all you need is some sort of conflict resolution system—just or not—that a critical mass of society is willing to go along with.

To be fair, our system isn’t perfect but it’s one of the best legal systems out there. The best in this world, really. 

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2 hours ago, Vort said:

 Wouldn't the legislative branch be more likely to be called legal branch? I think it makes sense that the judicial branch is so called. They adjudicate legal matters, after all.

It is my impression that the legislative branch is correctly named.  As to adjudicating (which is done by our justice system - means to make a judgment.  As we all know making a judgment does not in itself imply justice.  It is my impression that part of the problem in our society is that even the term of justice has become so convoluted that a large segment (even perhaps the majority) is conflicted as to what justice is and how it it unforced.

Thank you for engaging. 

 

The Traveler

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1 hour ago, LDSGator said:

To be fair, our system isn’t perfect but it’s one of the best legal systems out there. The best in this world, really. 

I cant say I agree - though I would very much like to.  To be honest I am not sure our system is even as good as it was when I was younger.  But it is interesting that the arguments about things that were obviously unjust then were exactly the same as your above excuse.   I have come to believe that no judicial system is any better nor worse than the individuals involved or in power of that system.  A good and just society does not need a perfect system - in fact they can find a way to get by with a rather bad system.  However, a really corrupt society will do much worse with a much more perfect system.

 

The Traveler

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6 hours ago, Traveler said:

To be honest I am not sure our system is even as good as it was when I was younger.

I guess that people get to a point in their lives when all they do is say things like this. Music, television, video games-They all were better back when I was younger! Kids today! Grumble grumble. 
 

It’s ridiculous. From the dawn of time people have said the same kind of things and they lack the self awareness to see that’s just so cliched. Heard it before, hearing it now. Will absolutely hear it again. 
 

I can’t tell if this is just how people age, or if it’s a sign of ego, bitterness, a sad life, refusing to adapt or seek out fresh perspectives, senility…hopefully I’ll never get to that point where I whine about how things were so much better “back then.” News flash-the “good old days” were awful. Thank goodness thoughts of the present, and the future, don’t fill me with the same dread. 

Edited by LDSGator
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1 hour ago, LDSGator said:

I guess that people get to a point in their lives when all they do is say things like this. Music, television, video games-They all were better back when I was younger! Kids today! Grumble grumble. 
 

It’s ridiculous. From the dawn of time people have said the same kind of things and they lack the self awareness to see that’s just so cliched. Heard it before, hearing it now. Will absolutely hear it again. 
 

I can’t tell if this is just how people age, or if it’s a sign of ego, bitterness, a sad life, refusing to adapt or seek out fresh perspectives, senility…hopefully I’ll never get to that point where I whine about how things were so much better “back then.” News flash-the “good old days” were awful. Thank goodness thoughts of the present, and the future, don’t fill me with the same dread. 

Well lets us consider some things together -  years ago I have ridden the New York subway system by myself late at night (not really knowing what I was doing and having to ask) and I was not worried.  Would you do so today?  Within the last two years I was with a group of individuals (8 of us) that got off the wrong subway station and when we got out on the streets there were several individuals that came up to us and warned us that we were in a unsafe place.  I have traveled a great deal throughout the world and been lost many times in very poor ghettos but I have only been warned in the USA that I was in unsafe areas and it has been more recently.

I have been in very poor places in Asia and informed that if I lost my wallet with a lot of cash that I could return days later and find my wallet and cash untouched.  When I was in Japan I saw vending machines that sold beer and when I asked if minors could purchase the beer they said no.  When I asked what would stop them - I was simply told it was against the law.  When I was in high school I took my father's hunting rifle to school to blue and machine the barrel and refinish the stock.  The rifle was too large for my locker so I took the rifle to my first 3 class periods and laid the rifle on the floor next to my desk - no one even questioned why I had the rifle - think that could happen today?

In my youth the public schools were considered the best in the world.  Private schools were generally for troubled youth.  That has flipped today.  I walked to school K-12 sometimes over a mile and no one thought it was child abuse.  I worked starting at age 8 (mostly picking fruit and washing windows for businesses) - there is too much child abuse today for parents to allow grade school children to be unsupervised for a few hours.   Now it is considered child abuse to allow children to play at a children playground without adult supervision.  

All of this is because our society does not trust our justice system and criminals are not worried about being caught.

 

The Traveler

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47 minutes ago, Traveler said:

Would you do so today?

No, but that’s more because I really hate NYC. I have walked around Tampa at night, Boston at night, and DC at night over the last ten years though. Rode the subway in Boston at that time too. Granted, it’s been over 7 years since I’ve walked around DC and roughly about four since Boston. Been about three months since I was in Tampa late at night. 

47 minutes ago, Traveler said:

All of this is because our society does not trust our justice system and criminals are not worried about being caught

Uh…criminals DO worry about being caught. That’s why they don't turn themselves in. But anyway. 
 

Are you aware that old people said the same things you are saying back when you were a child?
 

Older people have been saying things like that since the dawn of humanity. Every single generation thinks their music was the best, their times were the best, and all that comes after them is dangerous, demonic, corrupting the kids…

Again, maybe I’ll get there one day, but I truly truly believe that most people who say the same things you do don’t comprehend history or human nature. If they did, they probably wouldn’t allow themselves to turn into walking cliches. 

Edited by LDSGator
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12 hours ago, LDSGator said:

....

Older people have been saying things like that since the dawn of humanity. Every single generation thinks their music was the best, their times were the best, and all that comes after them is dangerous, demonic, corrupting the kids…

Again, maybe I’ll get there one day, but I truly truly believe that most people who say the same things you do don’t comprehend history or human nature. If they did, they probably wouldn’t allow themselves to turn into walking cliches. 

It is true that I am an old guy and I am well aware of excuses that have been made through much of our recorded history.  I was taught to not look at current event or even the current situation of individuals or investments but to rather carefully study and consider trends.  If you do not realize that there are accelerating trends in finances, morals, education, religious contributions and political ideologies then you will not have any input into what such things bring - I assume that you like the direction things are headed and will applaud what comes next.  For the record, my study of history indicates that things are currently  in a detreating cycle as we are given revelation for our day in the Book of Mormon.  It is true that previous civilizations have all gone through cycles but it is also true that all historical civilizations have collapsed and that though humans have survived the collapse of powerful civilizations it has never been a good time to enjoy being alive during such times.   There are sign of the time.  Though I do not convince you - I still very much appreciate your input.  I want you to know that I consider and ponder carefully your responses - and if I have misled anyone - I apologize and ask, even in advance for forgiveness.  

 

The Traveler

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