Requiring a COVID-19 Vaccine (shot/s)


Traveler
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3 hours ago, Vort said:

...and who kill their babies who dare to give life a try.

To be pedantic and nit pick the stink out of this......... that's not really an "and". Killing a baby is included in "not having" them. :D

(Unrelated anecdote: The other day I was playing a video game with my daughter (who's 4) and we were just shooting a wall over and over again and I just kind of commented casually, "Man, we're shooting the stink out of this wall!" A while later, mommy came in the room and my daughter jumped up and exclaimed, "Mommy, we shooted the smell out of it!")

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13 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Statistically (I believe) that doesn't hold up though. A "conservative" family with 10 kids might have 2 or 3 go liberal. More likely, even if said family was LDS and 2 or 3 left the church, they'd mostly likely still be politically conservative for the most part. But even if those 2 or 3 went liberal -- that's still 7 or 8 solid conservatives.

I don't know for sure the actual numbers, but I've heard that is the case before. And I can speak from my own family that this is VERY true. I come from a family of 9 kids. We are all conservative. My older sister has 10 kids. So far the adult children are all conservative (very, very conservative). I have another brother who has 10 kids. They all lean conservative. Etc. This is also true for my cousins, uncles, aunts, etc. We are ALL conservative, because our parents all taught us these values. There are (in the cousins) here and there a few that went off the rails in one way or another and have, indeed, left the church. Politically, for the most part, they're still conservative (though they do tend towards liberal ideas when it comes to morality issues like gay marriage or something).

It will be interesting to see. But I think in a few decades we may see some interesting things happening politically. But then again....Satan is working hard. And the corrupting forces at work are extreme. So....yes. It is complicated.

That’s understandable and like I said, I do generally agree with you. The larger the family, certainly the more conservative, and on average they have a better chance of remaining conservative. No argument there, really. 
 

and yes, it’s complicated. Very much so. 

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On 7/26/2021 at 3:23 PM, NeuroTypical said:

Out of all the reasons to not get vaccinated, this is one of the harder to understand.   Since 'downtime' and 'issues' with catching COVID are orders of magnitude higher than vaccine side effects, it sort of begs the question.   If downtime is something you don't want, why not decrease your odds of having it by like 288X?

My mom wouldn't stop nagging me, so I got my shot today under the condition that she be there with me in case I had a reaction.

Today is the only day of the week I don't have fixed plans for work or other activities in the evening, so it's my only real shot. 

...But dad decided he had plans for today on top of what mom already had, and so it was close to 2:30 PM by the time I got my shot. 

On a normal Tuesday, I'd have done my errands around 9 AM, gotten home, and gotten right on my paperwork. Instead, I waited until about 11 AM to give them the benefit of the doubt before doing my own errands because I wanted to give them time, and instead it was 2 PM before they finished up with theirs.

Had I done things to my schedule, I'd have already been done with paperwork when the office called to let me know some customers hadn't gotten their papers. Instead, I had to drop everything *yet again* to run, re-deliver those papers, and come back. 

I'm now several hours behind, missed an important message about some people from church getting spoof friend requests (meaning I'm now worried about my Facebook account), and now have a blazing stress headache. It's 6 PM local, and I figure it'll be about 10 PM local before I'm done with what I need to do. 

This is the kind of snafu I was hoping to avoid, but she just wouldn't stop. 

She knows I have issues with stress, she knows I'm likely on the autism spectrum to the point that I need to get in to see someone, but she just wouldn't let up. 

Once again, her drama became my drama, and I'm paying for it. 

(And no, so much of my paycheck goes for Obamacare that I can't even afford regular medical checkups, let alone rent on a place of my own.)

Edited by Ironhold
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19 hours ago, Ironhold said:

so it was close to 2:30 PM by the time I got my shot. 
...
I'm now several hours behind, missed an important message about some people from church getting spoof friend requests (meaning I'm now worried about my Facebook account), and now have a blazing stress headache. It's 6 PM local

Sorry to hear about the 'fun' day you're having.  The stress headache probably doesn't have anything to do with the shot.  If you have symptoms, they'll likely show up tomorrow.  Common ones include fever, or sore arm, or general fatigue/feeling lousy.  The symptoms tend to disappear totally within a day, so if anything shows up tomorrow, it should be gone by the day after. 

I remember when I got my 2nd shot I had that general achey/feeling lousy feeling the next day.  Of course it was my day to clean the church, so I had to groan my way through it.

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2 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Sorry to hear about the 'fun' day you're having.  The stress headache probably doesn't have anything to do with the shot.  If you have symptoms, they'll likely show up tomorrow.  Common ones include fever, or sore arm, or general fatigue/feeling lousy.  The symptoms tend to disappear totally within a day, so if anything shows up tomorrow, it should be gone by the day after. 

I remember when I got my 2nd shot I had that general achey/feeling lousy feeling the next day.  Of course it was my day to clean the church, so I had to groan my way through it.

 Same. I felt like garbage after my second shot, but it’s better than actually having Covid. 

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In other news, here's how things are going for yours truly as a participant in the phase III Moderna trial:

1. Phone call:
"Hi, this is the [COVID vaccine phase III trial people], calling for your routine health check.   Any changes in your medical history?"
"Nope"
"Any changes to your medications?"
"Nope"
"Are you showing any COVID symptoms?"
"Nope"
"Thanks for your time, have a nice day!"

2. Text a few hours later:
"Your Vaccine study debit card ending in XXXX has received funds in the amount of $27."

I'm a year in next month. Probably have been paid a grand or so for my part in the study.   Probably will get paid another couple hundred bucks over the next 2-3 years for the rest of the study.  If I grow a toe out of my forehead or something, and can link it to the trial vaccine, all my medical bills will be covered.

This is my first time through an experimental medical treatment program.  They tell me this is on par with how they tend to work.  Hence that classic Simpsons clip of Barney paying his bar tab with his medical experimentation winnings, and we see the back of his head shaved with wires hanging out.

 

Other interesting things:

- Whenever I have a change in my medical history (like having elective plastic surgery, or experiencing COVID-like symptoms after getting a shingles shot, or something), and I report it, after completing the medical interview about things, they pay me $90.  Should I get sick and die of some random illness, that data would get entered into various databases like VAERS, and then ignorant folks who don't understand would claim "The vaccine kills some people up to a year after they get the shot!".

- Every 3 or 4 months, I go in and give up to 8 vials of blood.  One obvious test is the antibody test to see how long the vaccine remains effective.   Some of the blood is frozen indefinitely for future tests they haven't thought to run yet.

 

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10 hours ago, LDSGator said:

 Same. I felt like garbage after my second shot, but it’s better than actually having Covid. 

When I had COVID I had no symptoms.  It would be nice to know how many positive cases of COVID had no symptoms and the demographics.  I am not sure if there is even an effort to gather this data - when I ask the professions that were contacting me during my quarantine - none were able to answer my questions.   I am of the opinion that the high risk demographics are too broad.  For example, I am 75 and thus are considered a high risk but I am not overweight.  Overweight may be much more important than advertised. I do not believe we are getting the full range of what is actually known about COVID.  Also in my research I discovered that COVID kills it host via cytokine storm - which is in essence an overaction of the immune system but I have yet to see any COVID deaths that indicate the cause of death as a cytokine storm.  I wonder if deaths are way over reported.

There is a lot of political talk about "The Science" but very little data published and explained.  But what troubles me the most is that no one can tell me why data is not made available and open to peer review and public discussion. 

 

The Traveler

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9 hours ago, Traveler said:

There is a lot of political talk about "The Science" but very little data published and explained.  But what troubles me the most is that no one can tell me why data is not made available and open to peer review and public discussion.

Don't ask questions @Traveler. :nownow:
Questions lead others to doubt. Asking questions is a form of misinformation. Misinformation will get you banned on all social media platforms.

White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki:

Quote

We are regularly making sure social media platforms are aware of the latest narratives dangerous to public health that we and many other Americans are seeing across all of social and traditional media and work to engage with them to better understand the enforcement of social media platform policies...

...we want to know that social media platforms are taking steps to address it (misinformation)...

... You shouldn’t be banned from one platform and not others for providing misinformation...

Of course... the real question...'who' actually wields the power to decide what is misinformation and what is not?

Edited by NeedleinA
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21 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

Sorry to hear about the 'fun' day you're having.  The stress headache probably doesn't have anything to do with the shot.  If you have symptoms, they'll likely show up tomorrow.  Common ones include fever, or sore arm, or general fatigue/feeling lousy.  The symptoms tend to disappear totally within a day, so if anything shows up tomorrow, it should be gone by the day after. 

I remember when I got my 2nd shot I had that general achey/feeling lousy feeling the next day.  Of course it was my day to clean the church, so I had to groan my way through it.

Oh, they showed up. 

Yesterday I just got hammered around noon, feeling so incredibly exhausted I just laid down on the couch and slept. 

I'd sleep for a while, wake up, have a severe nose bleed (I am prone to nose bleeds because of damage to my sinuses, but even for me this was bad), then once the bleeding stopped I'd go back to sleep. 

I finally woke up around 6:30, had a little bit of dinner, watched wrestling, watched a game show, and then basically went to sleep... 

...During which I had repeated fever dreams and woke up sweating hard, and as before when I was awake my nose was bleeding. 

I'd say that between the nose bleeds and the fever dreams, I've very much had a reaction. 

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55 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

Oh, they showed up. 

Yesterday I just got hammered around noon, feeling so incredibly exhausted I just laid down on the couch and slept. 

I'd sleep for a while, wake up, have a severe nose bleed (I am prone to nose bleeds because of damage to my sinuses, but even for me this was bad), then once the bleeding stopped I'd go back to sleep. 

I finally woke up around 6:30, had a little bit of dinner, watched wrestling, watched a game show, and then basically went to sleep... 

...During which I had repeated fever dreams and woke up sweating hard, and as before when I was awake my nose was bleeding. 

I'd say that between the nose bleeds and the fever dreams, I've very much had a reaction. 

This is right in line with CDC guidelines for possible COVID vaccine side effects:

Common side effect include:

  • Pain
  • Redness
  • Swelling
  • Tiredness
  • Headache
  • Muscle pain
  • Chills
  • Fever
  • Nausea
  • Nosebleeds
  • Fever
  • Nighmares
  • Tooth loss
  • Projectile vomiting
  • Halitosis
  • Baldness
  • Insanity
  • Temporary or permanent sex change
  • Death
  • Boils
  • Blains
  • Spousal abandonment
  • Genetic changes to descendancy

Looks like your symptoms are well within expectations.

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13 hours ago, Traveler said:

There is a lot of political talk about "The Science" but very little data published and explained.  But what troubles me the most is that no one can tell me why data is not made available and open to peer review and public discussion

I find it more grimly amusing than troublesome. I’ve heard anti vaxxers say “they don’t want to be part of an experiment” but a grand total of zero of them comprehend that they are now the control group. So, it’s not funny “ha ha” but it is darkly ironic. 

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33 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

I find it more grimly amusing than troublesome. I’ve heard anti vaxxers say “they don’t want to be part of an experiment” but a grand total of zero of them comprehend that they are now the control group. So, it’s not funny “ha ha” but it is darkly ironic. 

When I was working as a consultant (automation and robotics) I would stress to my clients that knowledge was critical to making meaningful decisions and changes and that data is critical to knowledge.  In essence, until something is measured and recorded it cannot be improved.  Often more work was needed to gather accurate data than to design and make changes (implement a solution).  @Vort listed what he called "common side effects" of COVID.  I wonder if the term "common" should have been left out of that description.  As I have come to understand the single most common reaction to a COVID infection is no symptoms what-so-ever (because symptoms seem to vary with age and a variety of health conditions).  

I wonder if the symptoms that are attributed to COVID are misplaced - in that COVID acts more as a catalysts than a cause of such symptoms and that other conditions (outside of COVID) are necessary for most of the so called "expected" or "common" symptoms of COVID.   Someone correct me if I am wrong but I understand the so called vaccine to be a gene therapy that alters the RNA message created by the virous - which in tern alters the immune response.  That the therapy does nothing about the so called side effects - or in essence a direct treatment towards "THE CAUSE" rather than treating any symptom.  This concept is very different than taking a aspirin to "cure" a headache.  Realizing that headaches are never caused by a lack of aspirin in someone's system.  

My point is that it seems to me that we are being mislead on many fronts concerning COVID and that anyone that is trying to make a decision based in knowledge is being denied accurate data and information.  I am also impressed that I am not the only one in our society that is unimpressed with how COVID has been address by the CDC, news outlets, our elected government leaders and our entire health care system.  We all should be skeptical of those that are hiding or not collecting the full spectrum of information regardless of the reason. 

 

The Traveler

Edited by Traveler
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20 minutes ago, Traveler said:

We all should be skeptical of those that are hiding or not collecting the full spectrum of information regardless of the reason. 

Being skeptical is fine, I’m with you completely. I’m just “skeptical” of anti vaxxers and people who don’t understand science too. 
 

I sort of get the conspiracy buffs because shamefully, I used to be one. Than, I began to “educate myself” and realized how wrong I was about JFK, 9/11, vaccines, etc. One day I’d honestly like to write a book about how I finally began to think critically. 

Edited by LDSGator
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52 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

This joke would be funnier if he had an oxygen tank and needed help going to the restroom.

I'm going to Photoshop your suggestions in the picture,  but first I have to find the perfect caption for my creation.

Option 1: "Trust the science" says the party who thinks men can have babies.
OR
Option 2: If you've been vaccinated, please stay six feet away from me and wear a mask.
We're all in this together.

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3 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

Trust the science" says the party who thinks men can have babies.

 imagine being a republican, like me, who trusts vaccines/ masks but also thinks that it’s comical when leftists say men can have babies or that there are 67 genders. It’s a lonely boat to be in, but at least we have chips and salsa and the music is good. 

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1 hour ago, LDSGator said:

Being skeptical is fine, I’m with you completely. I’m just “skeptical” of anti vaxxers and people who don’t understand science too. 
 

I sort of get the conspiracy buffs because shamefully, I used to be one. Than, I began to “educate myself” and realized how wrong I was about JFK, 9/11, vaccines, etc. One day I’d honestly like to write a book about how I finally began to think critically. 

A lot of my attitudes changed when I researched an article on archeological evidence of the Book of Mormon.  I started with the references in the article.  My research lasted about 5 years.  I discovered two trends.  The first I will call circle references.  This is where an assumption is made based on a reference - but when I traced down the initial reference that paper (or article) made its conclusions based on another reference.  After checking each reference for an original source, I found myself circling back to an article written by the initial author - in essence quoting themselves indirectly through others of the exact same opinion and through the entire cycling back there was no original source material or data.

The second trend was to misquote the referenced source.  The referenced source in this case does include the subject but the referenced source data does not support the premise of the referencing article.  I was very disappointed that this was done by my fellow LDS but I was soon to discover that such tactics is very common and I will add that I discovered these trends before the advent of the internet that has perfected these two trends to a whole new level.

I have also discovered other elements necessary to be known whenever one is doing research (fact checking).  That is to find out who is overseeing and publishing the information and where is the funding coming from for the research.  I was doing research on the AIDs virus when I discovered that much of the research used by the CDC in reference to AIDs was funded by Big Pharma and without government oversite.  I had thought that the CDC was government run meaning dependent on government subsidies and not beholding to private interests.

In short, my friend @LDSGator it would seem that I have gone completely the opposite direction to your journey.  I use to believe conspiracy buffs were kind of nut cases trying to swim in the deep end and not knowing what they were doing.  I have come to a very different conclusion.  If money and the government are somehow involved in any information; there is no chance that there is not a conspiracy involved in it.  The conspiracy buffs may be way off track (as per the UFO and extra terrestrials) but something is being covered up and hidden from the public - and that by definition is a conspiracy.

 

The Traveler

Edited by Traveler
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42 minutes ago, Traveler said:

In short, my friend @LDSGator it would seem that I have gone completely the opposite direction to your journey.  I use to believe conspiracy buffs were kind of nut cases

No worries at all bro. Life takes all of us in many different, interesting journeys. 
 

And to be clear, some conspiracy buffs are lunatics, while many are good people who are just misguided. That’s basically how I feel about leftists too. Some are totally nuts, but most are just good people who are misguided. 
 

Here’s what funny/sad though. Many conspiracy nuts are arrogant, dismissive, rude and nasty. Instead of me thinking they are good people who are misguided, they think those who disagree with them are “sheep” or “uneducated” or, in the worst cases, part of their whacky conspiracy and think everyone who doesn't agree with them is “out to get them” or “evil”.
 

Is this how everyone who believes that 9/11 was an inside job acts? No, but I’ve honestly never met a true blue conspiracy nut who didn’t call others “sheep” or “blind” or pretend they are smarter than everyone else. Charming. 

Edited by LDSGator
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9 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

Don't ask questions @Traveler. :nownow:
Questions lead others to doubt. Asking questions is a form of misinformation. Misinformation will get you banned on all social media platforms.

White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki:

Of course... the real question...'who' actually wields the power to decide what is misinformation and what is not?

Naturally, it's the Ministry of Truth and the thought police...

A reasonable person voicing reasonable concerns about the only treatment we're supposed to know about and want is intolerable and must be censored.

 

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