Requiring a COVID-19 Vaccine (shot/s)


Traveler
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3 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

I sure hope you are not referring to my winky face exchange with @LDSGator earlier? 
I was poking the bear, nothing more. 

I'm actually more on this level 😉

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I wasn’t.  I’m seeing Facebook posts in that vein that are quite serious.  

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Will someone please explain to me why someone with immunity (t-cell) against the virus needs the "vaccine"?  

Why does anyone think someone with immunity (t-cell) against the virus is more of a threat to anyone than someone that is fully "vaccinated"?

We now know that there are individuals that have been "vaccinated" that have been infected by the virus - and can pass the virus on to others - Does anyone know of anyone that has immunity (t-cell) that has been infected and/or has passed the virus on to others?????

There is a lot said about those currently getting the virus and being hospitalized are those that are unvaccinated - but how many have t-cell immunity against the virus?

Why can't we recognize those that are immune (t-cell immunity)?  

There is already indications that booster shots may be needed against  COVID-19 in the future.  The science is that those that have t-cell immunity are immune for life (better than the vaccine) and are more immune against the variant than those with the "vaccine".  And if history is any indication - there is a possibility that those with t-cell immunity may also pass on their immunity to their decedents.  But this will take some time to validate for sure.

Last question ----- Why do those that say everyone should have the vaccine fail to recognize those that have t-cell immunity?????  Is it because there is more politics than science?  

 

I have a suggestion - I think it is because it is most difficult to prove that someone does not have t-cell immunity - mostly because of false negative testing.  But I also believe that their medical history is a better source than testing - but HIPPA would never allow forced discloser to medical histories - and I believe that is mostly based in the politics of AIDS.  I believe we have painted ourselves into a vary foolish political corner!!!! - that makes it most difficult to "follow the science".   It is also my understanding that the only way to have t-cell immunity to COVID is to be infected.

 

 

The Traveler

 

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10 hours ago, Traveler said:

Will someone please explain to me why someone with immunity (t-cell) against the virus needs the "vaccine"?  

Why does anyone think someone with immunity (t-cell) against the virus is more of a threat to anyone than someone that is fully "vaccinated"?

We now know that there are individuals that have been "vaccinated" that have been infected by the virus - and can pass the virus on to others - Does anyone know of anyone that has immunity (t-cell) that has been infected and/or has passed the virus on to others?????

There is a lot said about those currently getting the virus and being hospitalized are those that are unvaccinated - but how many have t-cell immunity against the virus?

Why can't we recognize those that are immune (t-cell immunity)?  

There is already indications that booster shots may be needed against  COVID-19 in the future.  The science is that those that have t-cell immunity are immune for life (better than the vaccine) and are more immune against the variant than those with the "vaccine".  And if history is any indication - there is a possibility that those with t-cell immunity may also pass on their immunity to their decedents.  But this will take some time to validate for sure.

Last question ----- Why do those that say everyone should have the vaccine fail to recognize those that have t-cell immunity?????  Is it because there is more politics than science?  

 

I have a suggestion - I think it is because it is most difficult to prove that someone does not have t-cell immunity - mostly because of false negative testing.  But I also believe that their medical history is a better source than testing - but HIPPA would never allow forced discloser to medical histories - and I believe that is mostly based in the politics of AIDS.  I believe we have painted ourselves into a vary foolish political corner!!!! - that makes it most difficult to "follow the science".   It is also my understanding that the only way to have t-cell immunity to COVID is to be infected.

 

 

The Traveler

 

My understanding is that the NIH is saying that mRNA vaccines appear to give “immunity” [I use air quotes here to acknowledge that to some extent different people will react to the vaccine differently] against a broad panoply of potentially mutant COVID strains, whereas natural immunity seems directed towards the single strain of COVID that the person actually had.

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13 hours ago, Traveler said:

Will someone please explain to me why someone with immunity (t-cell) against the virus needs the "vaccine"? 

CDC website, August 6th 2021, states the following:

Quote

Reinfection with human coronaviruses, including SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, has been documented. Currently, limited evidence concerning the protection afforded by vaccination against reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 is available.

The kicker... after stating there is 'limited evidence' that it offers any protection if you have already had Covid, they then go on to say everyone should still take the vaccine anyways. 

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13 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

My understanding is that the NIH is saying that mRNA vaccines appear to give “immunity” [I use air quotes here to acknowledge that to some extent different people will react to the vaccine differently] against a broad panoply of potentially mutant COVID strains, whereas natural immunity seems directed towards the single strain of COVID that the person actually had.

 

10 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

CDC website, August 6th 2021, states the following:

Reinfection with human coronaviruses, including SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, has been documented. Currently, limited evidence concerning the protection afforded by vaccination against reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 is available.

The kicker... after stating there is 'limited evidence' that it offers any protection if you have already had Covid, they then go on to say everyone should still take the vaccine anyways. 

I am trying to understand - but I am not an expert in virology.   But from my studies there is a difference between T-Cell immunity and antibodies and we should not think in terms that all that have recovered from SARS-CoV-2 have T-Cell immunity.  It appears that the only way to know for certain if someone has T-Cell immunity is to test for the specific T-Cells that is more complicated than testing for antibodies.   In all the reporting on COVID-19 I have only heard one Dr. (that occasionally reports on Fox News) that even talks about T-Cell immunity.  

There are some articles on the internet that address specifically T-Cell immunity specific to COVID-19.  But I have not heard any experts in the media or any research that talks about reinfections that specifically addresses T-Cell immunity.  I will be meeting with my doctor this month and I plan to talk to him about my questions.

 

The Traveler

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Covid has 'animal reservoirs (hosts)' so it will never go away. 
"Why are we have breakthough cases in summer at the height of vitamin d levels?"
The single best, easy to understand, summary of current covid/vaccine/mask events that I've seen. 

 

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I have never understood the visceral hatred for Nickelback. I admit I have not listened to their music much, but one popular song was called Photograph, and I thought it was okay.

Sometimes I think some bands are hated just because hating that band becomes a popular meme, and people like to show their sophistication by perpetuating the meme. I think this principle applies pretty widely and to many different types of individuals, groups, and things.

EDIT: For the record, I meant "meme" in its original sense, not in the sense of "a photograph with a snarky caption that gets posted around the internet." I was not referencing LDSGator at all, just making a general observation.

Edited by Vort
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5 minutes ago, Vort said:

I have never understood the visceral hatred for Nickelback. I admit I have not listened to their music much, but one popular song was called Photograph, and I thought it was okay.

Sometimes I think some bands are hated just because hating that band becomes a popular meme, and people like to show their sophistication by perpetuating the meme. I think this principle applies pretty widely and to many different types of individuals, groups, and things.

EDIT: For the record, I meant "meme" in its original sense, not in the sense of "a photograph with a snarky caption that gets posted around the internet." I was not referencing LDSGator at all, just making a general observation.

It’s based in jealousy and it’s what the hipster elite think.
 

Now, having said that, all their songs sound the same and aren’t written very well. So, while there are legit reasons to dislike them, I fully admit that many people who dislike them can’t tell you why they do. 

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22 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

Covid has 'animal reservoirs (hosts)' so it will never go away. 
"Why are we have breakthough cases in summer at the height of vitamin d levels?"
The single best, easy to understand, summary of current covid/vaccine/mask events that I've seen. 

 

Sadly @NeedleinA - this will probably be removed from YouTube. Most likely the studies he is using will probably disappear also.

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On 8/7/2021 at 9:11 PM, Traveler said:

Will someone please explain to me why someone with immunity (t-cell) against the virus needs the "vaccine"? 

I was just listening to a doctor who mentioned that there are people who are still showing immunity with the Spanish Flu. If that is correct, as I don't have access to the reports they mentioned -- natural immunity seems to last longer.

EDIT:

Actually this is possibly two sources that highlight this:

1) https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/flu-survivors-still-immune-after-90-years

2) https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2008/08/researchers-find-long-lived-immunity-1918-pandemic-virus

Edited by Anddenex
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20 hours ago, Vort said:

I have never understood the visceral hatred for Nickelback. I admit I have not listened to their music much, but one popular song was called Photograph, and I thought it was okay.

Sometimes I think some bands are hated just because hating that band becomes a popular meme, and people like to show their sophistication by perpetuating the meme. I think this principle applies pretty widely and to many different types of individuals, groups, and things.

EDIT: For the record, I meant "meme" in its original sense, not in the sense of "a photograph with a snarky caption that gets posted around the internet." I was not referencing LDSGator at all, just making a general observation.

"Edge of a Revolution" was the kind of pretentious "We want to be seen as doing something to change the world but don't actually want to put any effort behind it!" nonsense that a lot of rock and punk fans in the late 2000s / early 2010s were sick and tired of, and so even people who hadn't yet gotten on board the bandwagon started writing them off. After that, the band slowly faded away to the point of them only being remembered as a living meme. 

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14 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

Sadly @NeedleinA - this will probably be removed from YouTube. Most likely the studies he is using will probably disappear also.

Not surprised one bit at this point if the video disappears from Youtube.
Here is a link to the video as well as the information from the studies the doctor is referring to:
https://hancockcountypatriots.blogspot.com/2021/08/dr-dan-stocks-presentation-to-mt-vernon.html

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@NeuroTypical I'm not anti-vaccination, but the media, politics and misinformation turned me off from the COVID-19 vaccine. 

I couldn't trust any information after being dumbfounded by the many contradictions that were pumped out by supposed authoritative sources like the CDC as everyone has scrambled for over a year claiming to have the answers to something they didn't fully understand.

Never have I seen a health issue politicized the way COVID-19 has been.

And then, speedier than any other vaccine to be approved, they fast-tracked the approval process for the COVID-19 vaccinations with the FDA Emergency Use Authorization.

Ever since the COVID-19 outbreak, I've been astonished that for the first time ever, world economies nearly came to a complete halt over what many described as a virus not much more serious than the flu but more contagious.

With that said, the media finally started speaking my language recently by using meaningful statistics in their headlines over the typical politized squabble.  And to your point, the statistics win the case to be vaccinated.  The benefits of taking the vaccine clearly outweigh the negative side effects.

I am not vaccinated at this point in time, but after reviewing the statistics and seeing the FDA is close to giving its full endorsement for the vaccines, I think I might proceed in receiving the vaccine.

Two questions for you:

1.) I had the 'rona back in January 2020 before anyone knew what it is was.  One gray area around COVID-19 is how long do the naturally produced antibodies last in someone who has recovered from it?  I know the Delta variant is out there and I might not have immunity against that, but I wouldn't want to inject that vaccination cocktail into my system if I still have natural immunity.

2.) Which vaccine do you recommend?

Edited by clbent04
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41 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

Two questions for you?

1.) I had the 'rona back in January 2020 before anyone knew what it is was.  One gray area around COVID-19 is how long do the naturally produced antibodies last in someone who has recovered from it?  I know the Delta variant is out there and I might not have immunity against that, but I wouldn't want to inject that vaccination cocktail into my system if I still have natural immunity.

2.) Which vaccine do you recommend?

1- Yep, we're still learning how long the antibodies last, either natural or from the vaccine.  I was in the Moderna phase III trial, got my 1st shot a year ago last week.  I have periodic blood tests, next one early September.  Make sure you watch the news the next day - they'll tell ya' how my antibodies are doing! :)    My buddy caught the virus last year too, and it was a sad day when he finally caved to work/fiance/family pressure to get vaccinated anyway.  I don't know if it was a waste of time or not, but he's doing fine.

2- I'm ok with any of the 3 US brands out there.  Moderna or Pfizer are the two new science-fiction-y lab-grown mRNA string vaccines.  They don't actually have any COVID virus in the shot.  These require two shots.  The Johnson & Johnson one is old school traditional "weakened or dead virus" vaccine, only one shot needed.   I hear the Chinese-made vaccine being used in China may not be as effective on the variants, as the US 3 seem to be.  That's about all I know of the different kinds.

Edited by NeuroTypical
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1 hour ago, clbent04 said:

@NeuroTypical I'm not anti-vaccination, but the media, politics and misinformation turned me off from the COVID-19 vaccine. 

I couldn't trust any information after being dumbfounded by the many contradictions that were pumped out by supposed authoritative sources like the CDC as everyone has scrambled for over a year claiming to have the answers to something they didn't fully understand.

Never have I seen a health issue politicized the way COVID-19 has been.

And then, speedier than any other vaccine to be approved, they fast-tracked the approval process for the COVID-19 vaccinations with the FDA Emergency Use Authorization.

Ever since the COVID-19 outbreak, I've been astonished that for the first time ever, world economies nearly came to a complete halt over what many described as a virus not much more serious than the flu but more contagious.

With that said, the media finally started speaking my language recently by using meaningful statistics in their headlines over the typical politized squabble.  And to your point, the statistics win the case to be vaccinated.  The benefits of taking the vaccine clearly outweigh the negative side effects.

I am not vaccinated at this point in time, but after reviewing the statistics and seeing the FDA is close to giving its full endorsement for the vaccines, I think I probably will proceed in receiving the vaccine.

Two questions for you:

1.) I had the 'rona back in January 2020 before anyone knew what it is was.  One gray area around COVID-19 is how long do the naturally produced antibodies last in someone who has recovered from it?  I know the Delta variant is out there and I might not have immunity against that, but I wouldn't want to inject that vaccination cocktail into my system if I still have natural immunity.

2.) Which vaccine do you recommend?

I completely understand where you are coming from. I know that as I often post the counter position to the pro-vaccine narrative that I must be considered quite the anti-vaxxer, and yet I don't consider myself as such (In fact, aside from never taking flu shots and having concerns about covid vaccines being too early to tell and one-sided in reporting, I'm fully vaccinated aside from tetanus boosters after a bad reaction leaving my arm in a state of paralysis for a week following my last booster 20+ years ago). My position has always been that of pushing for informed consent where we have better information to work with and don't have to be worried about medical tyranny forcing any procedure on any individual or group, it needs to be a voluntary decision made based on the best available evidence (including the risks that don't get their due attention). This current vaccine push does appear to be opening others eyes to how the information is presented works in favor of one authorized outcome which is sadly not new in the world of vaccines. The messaging is always "safe and effective" downplaying vaccine reactions, injuries and deaths while up-playing disease risks and complications. Consider that throughout this pandemic anyone with Covid at the time of death could have been documented as a covid death, even if they didn't die of covid. This unnecessarily inflates the numbers making it appear more dangerous than it is. On the flip side, vaccine reactions are only passively monitored through VAERS where they should be followed up on with better data analysis than it is capable of providing (as though they don't really want to know about problems) and then simply considered unverified and probably only a temporal association. When disease rates come down after vaccination campaigns correlation is causation, but when adverse events go up with the campaign correlation is not causation. It certainly continues to breed mistrust when now that vaccines are out that diagnostic criteria are changing and how covid deaths are reported and recorded are changing, so that by changing definitions we can make the disease less problematic. It ultimately means that we can't compare apples to apples and have junk data. 

You may find this a worthwhile watch:

 

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Like normal, here I come out of left field asking questions and making statements that would normally be welcome in the free market of ideas, but lately are grounds for woke treason. 

IMHO mandates and increasing threats of isolation don't work. The logical course of action to take in regards to people's concerns with mRNA vaccines is to offer them other choices. The NOVAVAX vaccine, which data shows is superior to all our currently available mRNA experimental vaccines ( https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/06/novavax-now-best-covid-19-vaccine/619276/ ) is based on familiar protein sub-unit technology, and Bharat Biotech International Limited's COVAXIN vaccine is based on traditional inactivated whole virus technology. 

Both have been administered to millions in other countries and would find a welcome audience in the United States. All available data indicates that they are safe and effective against COVID and its associated variants. If the FDA and Centers for Disease Control and Prevention would focus on approving these for emergency use it would do far more than the current threats of force and isolation against the unvaccinated.

Good science on new health technologies and treatments never speaks in the black and white terms that are currently being thrown around the medical industry.

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