Requiring a COVID-19 Vaccine (shot/s)


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Just for clarification, the Johnson & Johnson vaccine is not based on traditional technology. It uses adenovirus vectors to produce spike proteins. It is simply a different version of the same principle behind mRNA vaccines.

Novavax and Covaxin are the two vaccines based upon more traditional protein sub-unit and whole virus technologies.

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I've changed my mind on getting the vaccine as well. Why...? Follow the prophet.

I recognize and fully accept that some may feel specific revelation to do otherwise, or may simply interpret the messaging differently than I have. I used to think that way. I have changed my mind. For me.

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4 hours ago, clwnuke said:

You are probably right, but I can't help but hope when you see statistics like this (as of Aug 5th, 2021) being completely ignored:

Uttar Pradesh on Ivermectin:  Population 240 Million [4.9% fully vaccinated]

COVID Daily Cases: 26

COVID Daily Deaths: 3

The United States off Ivermectin: Population 331 Million [50.5% fully vaccinated]

COVID Daily Cases: 127,108

COVID Daily Deaths: 574

Let us look at other Ivermectin using areas of India with numbers from August 5, 2021, compiled by the JHU CSSE:

This is why I have a hard time with how things are happening with Covid. The contrast between Uttar Pradesh and the US is astounding and puzzling. If Covid is as dangerous as some say -- without a vaccine -- then Uttar Pradesh should be closer to the statistics of the US. With half the population vaccinated and still so many cases and deaths it makes you wonder what is wrong in the US.

This actually gives evidence to the contrary of the relation to vaccine and Covid.

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Some brand new and concerning COVID vaccine information:  https://www.journalofinfection.com/article/S0163-4453(21)00392-3/fulltext

It's a bit of a technical read, but the bottom line is that it appears that the currently approved US vaccines actually result in the production of some antibodies that facilitate infection with the Delta strain of the virus. Luckily for now, the neutralizing antibodies are still eventually overwhelming the facilitating antibodies so vaccinated people are recovering but this is a concern for future variants.

This information also helps explain why most vaccinated people will likely get the Delta variant at some point.

It also explains why unvaccinated people are statistically more likely to catch COVID from a vaccinated person.  Perhaps the vaccinated should stop pointing fingers since they are the greater statistical danger to others?

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2 hours ago, clbent04 said:

 

Factors that changed my mind to receive the COVID-19 vaccination

-On August 10, 2021, I received an email notification from Ticketmaster informing me that the Maroon 5 concert I purchased tickets for several months ago will be requiring proof of being fully vaccinated 2 weeks prior to the event.

Your post could’ve come Word for Word out of my lunch buddy. We would just have to replace this paragraph with “ I got tired of my fiancé bringing it up.“  😁

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I must say I've been vaccinated from as soon as I could get vaccinated.  It helped me so that I could get cleared to do my job this summer and actually travel in research.

IT DID bring to light some interesting things about what is happening abroad with the Church which I'll probably comment about in another topic or thread (or make one). 

I have remained fairly healthy though I suspect that my vaccination may be put to the test HERE in the US ironically rather than abroad.

Today, as I greeted one of my grandkids I asked about my deodorant I was wearing  (I had put it on liberally and so was quite smelly, hopefully not in an offensive way).  Others had commented on it that I may have put it on a bit strong.  My grandchild came up and I asked them about the smell of it and they said they didn't smell anything.  They then said they had the sniffles and so couldn't smell anything recently...which raised my alarm a little. 

I suppose I'll see how good the vaccination is in being effective at protecting me (hopefully, as I've followed the First Presidencies recommendations from the Start as quickly as I can I have the blessings of protection in that light). 

I've found that I have at least one daughter in Law and many in that family that are not vaccinated and still do not plan on getting vaccinated, even with the most recent First Presidency message.  I will see how that turns out, hopefully they remain healthy.  Ironically she works in the medical field.

A great deal of mockery has been had at the US abroad due to their anti-science stance, especially regarding vaccines.  Unfortunately, the big news stories I saw abroad regarding Utah, Idaho, and Arizona that involved the Church also discussed these things which I think puts the Church in a bad light in the media recently. 

It's NOT like the Leadership is acting against science (or at least the Prophet and First Presidency), but it is the ACTIONS of the members that are bringing to light what the rest of the world is seeing and perceiving about Utah, Arizona, and Idaho.  It's not a good PR situation from what I could see.

It's not just Church members doing this though, there are several nations which have their own pockets of deeply anti-scientific individuals who are refusing to get vaccinated in almost every location I visited this summer, but it is interesting how actions of those in areas where the church is prominent sometimes were highlighted more in a negative light in regards to anti-vaccine and anti-masking actions then their own local backyards.

The prophet and First Presidency have been advocating Vaccination almost from the very start.  It's not new.  I think being more forceful about it though needs to be done and hopefully it makes international news that the Head Leadership of the Church is very strongly in favor of vaccinations and masking and thus putting the church in a favorable media light to counter the NEGATIVE news that have come out regarding the actions of many of the general membership in the Utah, Idaho, and Arizona areas. 

I hope that their statements paint a positive light in the international community.

To much negative news has come from the actions of members recently in their responses against masks and vaccinations in Utah and Arizona (and more limited in Idaho) that has seemed almost like a media paintjob internationally to paint the church in a bad light. 

Hopefully the First Presidency message and it's forcefulness counters this and puts the Church back in the news in a positive light.

Edited by JohnsonJones
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7 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

Hopefully the First Presidency message and it's forcefulness counters this and puts the Church back in the news in a positive light.

Ex-Mormons are loving it as they revel in the hypocrisy of anti-vax members not following Church leadership. They’re are anticipating a mass exodus from the Church of members leaving over the issue. 

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11 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

Ex-Mormons are loving it as they revel in the hypocrisy of anti-vax members not following Church leadership. They’re are anticipating a mass exodus from the Church of members leaving over the issue. 

I am an active member, but, I'm not so sure it's going to lead to a mass exodus, in fact I do not think that.  I don't see it leading anyone out of the Church in any great numbers or anything.  I think it deals more with reinforcing policy, and expressing what the policies of the church actually are to members and those who are not members.

I know that internationally the news stories over the past few months have seemed to be negative when they  mention the church in context of the actions of people in the US.

It's NOT as bad as the news stories coming out about Florida, but it IS pretty bad in painting the Church negatively whenever the areas where the Church is dominant in the states is mentioned.  They seem to relish pointing out the actions of those states and mentioning the Church's presence there, with the anti-vaccination and anti-masking actions of citizens of those states...implying this is a result of religious belief or action.  It paints the Church in a very negative light when the media has been doing this.  Unfortunately this has been the majority of media coverage I've seen coming out of the States regarding the Church in recent months, even though technically it's not really something that is the Church's fault nor relates what it's official policies actually are.

The Church NEEDS some good/positive news stories.

Regarding the negative vs. positive representation in the media internationally, it probably has MORE to do with missionary work and trying to get people to listen to missionaries or consider the Church as something they might be interested in (positive) rather than something they find repulsive (negative).

As I see it, the position of the Prophet and First Presidency have not changed, but being more blatant about their stance may be something to counter the negative media coverage of what is occurring in the areas of Utah, Arizona, and Idaho from an international perspective.

Edited by JohnsonJones
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1 minute ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I find myself greatly skeptical that there is much of an international perspective on Utah, Arizona, and Idaho. 

 

There's a surprisingly larger amount that one would have expected.  It's been more than what it's been in the past (at least from what I noticed this summer).  Most of it deals with what is happening regarding Covid-19 in the US and the infection rates.  LOTS of news about Florida recently before I left.  Mixed in were several many stories about Utah and Arizona, and probably two or three about Idaho.

Seeing that my co-workers and fellows all know I am a member, they invariably would point these stories out to me.  Many other things have happened abroad, but this isn't the thread for them.

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2 minutes ago, SpiritDragon said:

Yup JJ's post is the first I've heard of this!

I'll refrain from sharing my perspective on international views since I'm sure they care as much about what I think of their perspective as I do about theirs. 

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1 minute ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I'll refrain from sharing my perspective on international views since I'm sure they care as much about what I think of their perspective as I do about theirs. 

We'd likely agree to a great extent, but perhaps not. I see it kind of like workers with no experience in a particular field turning their nose up at how those who labour in that field go about their work, they don't have the requisite experience to understand why things are done a certain way. Most of the world can't seem to grasp the foundation of liberty that the United States is built on, and while they try to emulate those freedoms to an extent the majority are still quick to snuff out individual choices they are not in favour of.

 

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5 minutes ago, SpiritDragon said:

We'd likely agree to a great extent, but perhaps not. I see it kind of like workers with no experience in a particular field turning their nose up at how those who labour in that field go about their work, they don't have the requisite experience to understand why things are done a certain way. Most of the world can't seem to grasp the foundation of liberty that the United States is built on, and while they try to emulate those freedoms to an extent the majority are still quick to snuff out individual choices they are not in favour of.

 

I would guess that the perspective being spoken of in this case is not about freedom (mandates), but an inability to understand why people aren't choosing to wear masks and get vaccinated. But @JohnsonJones can clarify. 

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1 minute ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I would guess that the perspective being spoken of in this case is not about freedom (mandates), but an inability to understand why people aren't choosing to wear masks and get vaccinated. But @JohnsonJones can clarify. 

On that note, I find it interesting how people live in alternate versions of what they consider reality. I was just talking to my former Stake President yesterday and he blames Trump for sewing mistrust in everything and puts the blame on him for lower than expected vaccine uptake. I see Trump's rise as a symptom of that mistrust rather than a cause. And if I were to point any fingers on the vaccine issue in particular in the political realm, Biden and Harris were the one's saying they wouldn't trust Trump's vaccine leading up to the election, they are the same vaccines and were never "Trump's" to begin with, but they seem to skate free of having caused any controversy or doubt...

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11 hours ago, clbent04 said:

Ex-Mormons are loving it as they revel in the hypocrisy of anti-vax members not following Church leadership. They’re are anticipating a mass exodus from the Church of members leaving over the issue. 

Exmo’s have been expecting a mass exodus forever, but what’s far more damaging to the church is the “death by a thousand cuts” that seems to be happening. 
 

TS Eliot was right. The way the world ends is not with a bang, but a whimper. 

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On 8/15/2021 at 9:32 AM, SpiritDragon said:

We'd likely agree to a great extent, but perhaps not. I see it kind of like workers with no experience in a particular field turning their nose up at how those who labour in that field go about their work, they don't have the requisite experience to understand why things are done a certain way. Most of the world can't seem to grasp the foundation of liberty that the United States is built on, and while they try to emulate those freedoms to an extent the majority are still quick to snuff out individual choices they are not in favour of.

 

 

There IS a difference in culture between some of the cultural component in North America (I'd say it's not just the U.S., but a lot of the North American Continent to be honest, with some portions of the Continent having more of the same cultural attitudes that many find different than one would even find in the majority of the US's population) and much of the rest of the world. 

It's not about freedom...in my opinion (and as such, it is JUST my opinion, not some documented item), but the TYPE of freedoms and how they are best exemplified.

I should be clear though, the same problems that they find in the US can also be found in many of their nations to a greater or lesser degree, but ironically more media attention in certain areas is focused on the US's involvement of things at times than their own (and perhaps the news from the US is used as a distraction from what is occurring in their own nation at times). 

For my part, I'm glad to be back home, though I have a lot of work to do right now.  We are going full bore with students in class, so it should be interesting to see how things develop.  So far, no symptoms of anything, so still healthy.  I expect I'll get to see first hand how effective the vaccine is against some variants this upcoming year.  I trust in the Prophet though.

Started wearing a mask in public places as per how I understand their most recent letter.  It feels a little strange at times because I'm one of the only ones. 

I have decided it is EASIER to do things the church asks you to do and follow the prophet's instructions when among non-members because you can then say that it is instructions from your religious leaders than it is among members.  It is a LOT harder to follow the prophet in things that are outwardly observable (like wearing a mask) when many of the other members are actively opposing it.

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Does anyone remember the 5th of November?  Does this movie strike anyone else as prophetic?

“but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn't be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense.”

“You wear a mask for so long, you forget who you were beneath it.”

“Knowledge, like air, is vital to life. Like air, no one should be denied it.”

“Behind this mask there is more than just flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea... and ideas are bulletproof.”

 
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13 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

If that’s the reason why someone doesn’t wear a mask, they have to mature past the “Holden Caulfield temper tantrum” phase of life. 

There is actually not a whole lot of evidence that masking works.

Scientific evidence.  Im not talking about pseudo science.

I’m a surgeon.  We have used masks in the surgical theatre for over 100 years.

Guess what…  No real evidence via scientific studies that masking makes a difference in surgery.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4480558/

 

Edited by mikbone
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11 minutes ago, mikbone said:

I’m a surgeon.  We have used masks in the surgical theatre for over 100 years.

That’s a logical fallacy, called “Appeal to authority.” https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Appeal-to-Authority

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449

 

https://www.kxan.com/news/coronavirus/do-face-masks-work-here-are-49-scientific-studies-that-explain-why-they-do/

 

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent

 

Regardless, it doesn’t address what I said either. If you refuse to wear a mask because you “forget who you are under it” you’ve got to age past your emo phase. 

Edited by LDSGator
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12 hours ago, LDSGator said:

Most people think the following is science

2002529F-29CA-4F02-A796-3C02F75063F4.thumb.jpeg.34052e92266979c25ec3733c2ece723d.jpeg8767BC0D-421C-427C-905E-9E933E6B3BE5.jpeg.2e1e915eb76b4b00d4e281313c4f2c7c.jpeg

It isn’t

We know that COVID is aerosolized.  So instead of the pissing and sneezing example a more appropriate example is passing gas.  Guess what… Pants and masks don’t give you much protection. 

Edited by mikbone
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