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Requiring a COVID-19 Vaccine (shot/s)

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18 minutes ago, clwnuke said:

Good science on new health technologies and treatments never speaks in the black and white terms that are currently being thrown around the medical industry.

This is a good point as to why mistrust is bred with COVID-19 vaccinations.

Only a Sith Lord speaks in absolutes.

Since when in the history of the US did the CDC and others In the medical community vehemently speak in absolutes rather than the traditional approach of methodically evaluating pros and cons?

It’s such an aggressive push to get people to shut up and take the vaccine and save their questions for later.

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58 minutes ago, SpiritDragon said:

having concerns about covid vaccines being too early to tell and one-sided in reporting

Both valid points.

Even though it’s been a year and half since the outbreak of COVID-19, no one fully understands this virus or knows what the long-term effects are going to be from getting the virus or the vaccinations. 

As for those who criticize people who have chosen not to receive the vaccination yet, there are valid points in not doing so. If anyone should be criticized, it should be agencies like the CDC who bred mistrust in the first place for its contradictions and those in the medical community that stopped behaving like medical professionals when presenting skewed and biased data to the public to fit a narrative. Just give us the data and let us draw our own conclusions rather than have us listen to the obvious spins.

The misinformation and one-sided reporting can’t help but create skeptics. The blame really needs to be directed at those who poorly managed the information the public needed to know during this crisis.

What makes me seriously consider getting the vaccine now are the statistics. Is the data perfect? No. Can it be trusted? I think to a degree. While we don’t know how much the numbers may be skewed, I trust the general trend of the numbers, and that trend is clearly showing us that the benefits of receiving the vaccine far outweigh any risks associated with receiving the vaccine.

But you have to ask yourself, have you already had coronavirus and recovered and possibly have natural antibodies already built up in your system? The vaccine might not be necessary for you in that case. Still too much we don’t know.

Have you already had the virus and how old are you? These are important questions to ask ourselves when considering if the vaccination is necessary. 

I’ve had coronavirus and recovered, and I’m 35 years old which puts me in a low risk category from dying from COVID-19.  Should I get the vaccination? I’m not sure at this point considering the statistics. But what I do know is the media, the CDC, and everyone else should more focused on the necessity of the vaccination for people who have naturally created antibodies against COVID-19. This is hardly talked about or investigated at all, something else that breeds mistrust since looking into it doesn’t fit the media’s pro-vaccine narrative. 

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6 hours ago, clbent04 said:

Both valid points.

Even though it’s been a year and half since the outbreak of COVID-19, no one fully understands this virus or knows what the long-term effects are going to be from getting the virus or the vaccinations. 

As for those who criticize people who have chosen not to receive the vaccination yet, there are valid points in not doing so. If anyone should be criticized, it should be agencies like the CDC who bred mistrust in the first place for its contradictions and those in the medical community that stopped behaving like medical professionals when presenting skewed and biased data to the public to fit a narrative. Just give us the data and let us draw our own conclusions rather than have us listen to the obvious spins.

The misinformation and one-sided reporting can’t help but create skeptics. The blame really needs to be directed at those who poorly managed the information the public needed to know during this crisis.

What makes me seriously consider getting the vaccine now are the statistics. Is the data perfect? No. Can it be trusted? I think to a degree. While we don’t know how much the numbers may be skewed, I trust the general trend of the numbers, and that trend is clearly showing us that the benefits of receiving the vaccine far outweigh any risks associated with receiving the vaccine.

But you have to ask yourself, have you already had coronavirus and recovered and possibly have natural antibodies already built up in your system? The vaccine might not be necessary for you in that case. Still too much we don’t know.

Have you already had the virus and how old are you? These are important questions to ask ourselves when considering if the vaccination is necessary. 

I’ve had coronavirus and recovered, and I’m 35 years old which puts me in a low risk category from dying from COVID-19.  Should I get the vaccination? I’m not sure at this point considering the statistics. But what I do know is the media, the CDC, and everyone else should more focused on the necessity of the vaccination for people who have naturally created antibodies against COVID-19. This is hardly talked about or investigated at all, something else that breeds mistrust since looking into it doesn’t fit the media’s pro-vaccine narrative. 

This.

 

I've had Covid and I'm in the over 50 crowd.  On a scale of 1-10 on how bad it was?  About a 3.  For 2-3 days my lower back was killing me and going up the stairs from the basement was exhausting.  I had a big of a cough.  For about 2-3 days.  Otherwise...meh.  I have natural anti-bodies now.  Even the CDC says I should wait 3 months before getting the vaccine.  I probably don't need it at all now that I've had it.  They are going to push for the vaccine for people like me because "to be on the safe side/money/big pharma (take your pick.)

 

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10 hours ago, SpiritDragon said:

now that vaccines are out that diagnostic criteria are changing and how covid deaths are reported and recorded are changing, so that by changing definitions we can make the disease less problematic. It ultimately means that we can't compare apples to apples and have junk data.

This is all that has happened ^^^
Changed definitions.
Changed PCR levels.
Changed covid registering requirements.

We are simply fed the data they want us to have, to do the thing they want us to do = shut up and comply

Quote

In a real pandemic people would be fighting for the vaccines.
Not marching in the streets, leaving jobs, and fighting to avoid them.

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22 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

Not surprised one bit at this point if the video disappears from Youtube.
Here is a link to the video as well as the information from the studies the doctor is referring to:
https://hancockcountypatriots.blogspot.com/2021/08/dr-dan-stocks-presentation-to-mt-vernon.html

My friend posted this video on his Facebook feed, and Facebook -- of course -- had it labeled as misleading context. I clicked on it to see what misleading information I would receive this time and it could only say that articles specify masks work. I was pretty sure I kept hearing the science was settled on "masks" and yet you have plenty of scientific articles -- about masks -- which are ignored. Its amazing when you begin to study for yourself what you actually see out there, and how easily to see who is misleading.

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So, I've been a hobbyist prepper and zombie flick aficionado for two decades now.  I started talking and reading about pandemics and killer flu and biological warfare back in the late '80's.  

Absolutely zero things I've heard in the last 18 months about COVID have surprised me.  None of it is new.  Conflicting, changing, and contradictory messages from "them in charge" isn't new.  Public health mandates being anything from helpful to tyrannical is not new.  People being all over the map on opinions, everyone yelling at the top of their lungs, even getting violent, not new. Political and cultural radicalization and an increase in crime/violence/uprisings/killings - not new.

You know what else isn't new?  Here - let this sink in for a minute.  The going notion by historians who have followed the history of global pandemics: You'll never get much more than 70% of any large free population vaccinated.   No matter how much you try.

I am hugely grateful for an effective vaccine.  I'm thrilled that me and my family are now ~288x less likely to have severe negative impacts of COVID.  I'm a fan of efforts to educate people and encourage vaccination.  Arguing in the public square, and having different sources battle it out.  Walmart giving out $100 gift cards to anyone who gets vaccinated.  State lotteries.  Employers offering incentives to people who get vaccinated.  I'm an enthusiastic participant in the first one.  We have an effective vaccine - shout it from the rooftops!

But yeah, history and human nature dictate that attempts to force folks to get the shot simply won't work.  Communist China at it's most gun-pointingly totalitarian can improve on 70%, and Israel with their "everything that isn't us is an enemy" mindset can do it.  Do you think New York banning black people from restaurants will do anything?

Yeah, if you haven't already had COVID, get your shot.   But if you need someone to show up to protest unconstitutional mandates, gimme a call.

Edited by NeuroTypical

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18 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

But if you need someone to show up to protest unconstitutional mandates, gimme a call.

Now we are talking, you rebel scum you.

Quote
Alma 43:45

Nevertheless, the Nephites were inspired by a better cause, for they were not fighting for monarchy nor power but they were fighting for their homes and their liberties, their wives and their children, and their all, yea, for their rites of worship and their church.

 

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On 8/11/2021 at 9:42 AM, Anddenex said:

I was pretty sure I kept hearing the science was settled on "masks" and yet you have plenty of scientific articles -- about masks -- which are ignored. Its amazing when you begin to study for yourself what you actually see out there, and how easily to see who is misleading.

Do Masks Work? Viral immunologist Dr. Byram Bridle performs a simple experiment to see:

 

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6 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

Do Masks Work? Viral immunologist Dr. Byram Bridle performs a simple experiment to see:

 

Dang! I am surprised that our Google savior hasn't removed this video yet. It must be because it hasn't gone viral yet.

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9 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

Sort of fascinating. For years people would lecture us about wearing a white shirt because not wearing one goes against prophetic counsel....

 

but when the prophets advise something the white shirt wearers don’t like, they have every excuse in the book not to follow it. 

Edited by LDSGator

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Why do we require a declaration of war instead of a simple executive order?  Is there a correlation between full FDA approval and EUA?

Have any executive orders ever backfired on us?

I find it interesting that the recent  official church announcement uses the term ‘War’.

Edited by mikbone

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I can tell you that many people in the medical field feel like they are being bullied into taking these emergency approved vaccinations.  Medical professionals of any kind (in my county) including the pregnant have been instructed to be fully vaccinated by end of September or face immediate severance.

Bully - seek to harm, intimidate, or coerce (someone perceived as vulnerable).

 

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31 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Sort of fascinating. For years people would lecture us about wearing a white shirt because not wearing one goes against prophetic counsel....

 

but when the prophets advise something the white shirt wearers don’t like, they have every excuse in the book not to follow it. 

@LDSGator, do you drink alcohol?
I don't mean in your past, I mean now days.

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10 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

@LDSGator, do you drink alcohol?
I don't mean in your past, I mean now days.

Not recently, no. The last year or so yes. Remember though, my temple recc expired years ago. So no, I haven’t lied to anyone. Why do you ask? Looking for recommendations?

Edited by LDSGator

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41 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Sort of fascinating. For years people would lecture us about wearing a white shirt because not wearing one goes against prophetic counsel....

 

but when the prophets advise something the white shirt wearers don’t like, they have every excuse in the book not to follow it. 

Which counsel are you referring too from the prophets? 

I'm following the counsel to seek out through mine own study, prayer, and the Spirit. 

I'm following the medical counsel from medical experts, not just the ones mainstream media wants us to follow. 

Do you assume my parents who were specifically told by their medical professionals not to take the vaccine, and who have prayed about it. And who taught their kids to wear a white shirt and tie aren't following counsel? 

Not so black and white as you make it especially in light of counsel already given. 

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11 minutes ago, mikbone said:

I find it interesting that the recent  official church announcement uses the term ‘War’.

Also interesting is the wording of:
"protection... can only be achieved by immunizing"

Does prayer, fasting, faith in God, the immune system in our God given bodies and priesthood blessings still play a role any longer?

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31 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

Which counsel are you referring too from the prophets?

The one @mirkwood posted. Sounds like prophetic advice/counsel to me. 
 

 

31 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

I'm following the counsel to seek out through mine own study, prayer, and the Spirit. 

Good. I advise that. But, I’m also deeply worried when that goes against basic science. Again though, your right. 

 

31 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

Do you assume my parents who were specifically told by their medical professionals not to take the vaccine, and who have prayed about it. And who taught their kids to wear a white shirt and tie aren't following counsel?

Okay, I’ll be blunt. I’ve heard that story 44,000 times and while I’m sure you parents are being truthful, I no longer believe it. Real vaccine exemptions are incredibly rare, but it seems like everyone knows someone who has one.  But in your case, I’ll believe you. 

 

31 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

Not so black and white as you make it especially in light of counsel already given. 

Indeed. 

Edited by LDSGator

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7 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

The one @mirkwood posted. Sounds like prophetic advice/counsel to me. 

Yes it does and is. What about this counsel, which is why the question was asked. 

"Vaccinations administered by competent medical professionals protect health and preserve life. Members of the Church are encouraged to safeguard themselves, their children, and their communities through vaccination. 

Ultimately, individuals are responsible to make their own decisions about vaccination. If members have concerns, they should counsel with competent medical professionals and also seek the guidance of the Holy Ghost."

This second paragraph sounds like good counsel to me also which I'm following pertaining to vaccinations. 

Edited by Anddenex

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1 minute ago, Anddenex said:

competent medical professionals

That’s the issue right there my friend. The four hours of Google “research” your buddy Steve the plumber did doesn’t compete with the 95% of doctors who think vaccines and masks work. 

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6 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

Yes it does and is. What about this counsel, which is what the question was asked. 

"Vaccinations administered by competent medical professionals protect health and preserve life. Members of the Church are encouraged to safeguard themselves, their children, and their communities through vaccination. 

Ultimately, individuals are responsible to make their own decisions about vaccination. If members have concerns, they should counsel with competent medical professionals and also seek the guidance of the Holy Ghost."

This second paragraph sounds like good counsel to me also which I'm following pertaining to vaccinations. 

The way I read that section of the Handbook, it seems that getting vaccinations is the default.  Only if someone has a reason for concern, then seek counsel and guidance.

Edited by dprh

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1 minute ago, LDSGator said:

That’s the issue right there my friend. The four hours of Google “research” your buddy Steve the plumber did doesn’t compete with the 95% of doctors who think vaccines and masks work. 

So the best response in light of actually following prophetic counsel is to assume the doctors i listened to are plumbers, not competent in their field. Ok.

Would love to see the article that gives 95%  of the doctors all agree. Please provide the link. 

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