Traveler

Requiring a COVID-19 Vaccine (shot/s)

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1 hour ago, pam said:
On 5/21/2021 at 10:04 PM, Traveler said:

Perhaps I have missed something that @Just_A_Guy could better clarify.  But requiring any discloser of someone's personal health records - I believe is in violation of HIPPA laws. 

 

The Traveler

Vaccinations do not fall under HIPAA laws.  

Employers requiring employees disclose their personal medical information may not run afoul of HIPAA laws either.

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10 hours ago, pam said:

Vaccinations do not fall under HIPAA laws.  

I posted the following earlier:

Okay I looked up the HIPPA Rules and found the following:

  Quote

The HIPAA Privacy Rule governs how ePHI can be used and disclosed. In force since 2003, the Privacy Rule applies to all healthcare organizations, the providers of health plans (including employers), healthcare clearinghouses and – from 2013 – the Business Associates of covered entities.

The Privacy Rule demands that appropriate safeguards are implemented to protect the privacy of Personal Health Information. It also sets limits and conditions on the use and disclosure of that information without patient authorization.

Then a few paragraphs below I found the following:

  Quote

Covered Entities should make sure their patient authorization forms have been updated to include the disclosure of immunization records to schools,

In other words HIPPA Rules do include disclosure of immunization records to schools.  You appear to be correct - every school in the country has broken the law.  I am somewhat surprised that no one has figured this out yet.  Note that businesses cannot access personal records for employment and I think the airlines have a problem as well.  HIPPA was initially passed to protect those that had the AID virus - which BTW was at the time listed as a pandemic.  It looks like when the law was made that there was not a lot of foresight. 

 

The Traveler

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1 hour ago, Traveler said:

I posted the following earlier:

Okay I looked up the HIPPA Rules and found the following:

  Quote

The HIPAA Privacy Rule governs how ePHI can be used and disclosed. In force since 2003, the Privacy Rule applies to all healthcare organizations, the providers of health plans (including employers), healthcare clearinghouses and – from 2013 – the Business Associates of covered entities.

The Privacy Rule demands that appropriate safeguards are implemented to protect the privacy of Personal Health Information. It also sets limits and conditions on the use and disclosure of that information without patient authorization.

Then a few paragraphs below I found the following:

  Quote

Covered Entities should make sure their patient authorization forms have been updated to include the disclosure of immunization records to schools,

In other words HIPPA Rules do include disclosure of immunization records to schools.  You appear to be correct - every school in the country has broken the law.  I am somewhat surprised that no one has figured this out yet.  Note that businesses cannot access personal records for employment and I think the airlines have a problem as well.  HIPPA was initially passed to protect those that had the AID virus - which BTW was at the time listed as a pandemic.  It looks like when the law was made that there was not a lot of foresight. 

 

The Traveler

No they do not apply to schools.  Schools have not been breaking any laws regarding requiring proof of vaccinations.  According to the Hipaa laws:

Vaccination information is classed as PHI and is covered by the HIPAA Rules. However, HIPAA only applies to HIPAA-covered entities – healthcare providers, health plans, and healthcare clearinghouses – and their business associates. If an employer asks an employee to provide proof that they have been vaccinated in order to allow that individual to work without wearing a facemask, that is not a HIPAA violation as HIPAA does not apply to most employers.

Hipaa only applies to healthcare facilities not being allowed to release information.  However businesses and schools can require proof of vaccines.  As well as traveling to specific countries, military service, requiring tetanus shots for some professions and of course our missionaries are required to have certain immunizations and must provide proof.  

I worked for a health insurance company for 10 years.  Knowledge of Hipaa laws was something we had to pass tests on as part of our employment to ensure we weren't breaking any laws.  

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On 5/22/2021 at 1:04 AM, Traveler said:

Perhaps I have missed something that @Just_A_Guy could better clarify.  But requiring any discloser of someone's personal health records - I believe is in violation of HIPPA laws. 

 

The Traveler

That is an EXCELLENT POINT!!!!!!!

I was actually scheduled to take the Phizer vaccination on May 26, 2021 but I did quite a bit of research in the three weeks before the proposed shot.... .and I decided to get my wife to cancel my appointment.... I am still unvaccinated!!!!!

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4 hours ago, DennisTate said:

That is an EXCELLENT POINT!!!!!!!

I was actually scheduled to take the Phizer vaccination on May 26, 2021 but I did quite a bit of research in the three weeks before the proposed shot.... .and I decided to get my wife to cancel my appointment.... I am still unvaccinated!!!!!

Again...I don't know how I can make it any clearer.  Please read my above post.  An employer or school requiring proof of vaccinations does not violate hipaa laws.  

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It is HIPAA not HIPPA.   Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act

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9 minutes ago, pam said:

Again...I don't know how I can make it any clearer.  Please read my above post.  An employer or school requiring proof of vaccinations does not violate hipaa laws.  

 Correct. 

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15 hours ago, pam said:

No they do not apply to schools.  Schools have not been breaking any laws regarding requiring proof of vaccinations.  According to the Hipaa laws:

Vaccination information is classed as PHI and is covered by the HIPAA Rules. However, HIPAA only applies to HIPAA-covered entities – healthcare providers, health plans, and healthcare clearinghouses – and their business associates. If an employer asks an employee to provide proof that they have been vaccinated in order to allow that individual to work without wearing a facemask, that is not a HIPAA violation as HIPAA does not apply to most employers.

Hipaa only applies to healthcare facilities not being allowed to release information.  However businesses and schools can require proof of vaccines.  As well as traveling to specific countries, military service, requiring tetanus shots for some professions and of course our missionaries are required to have certain immunizations and must provide proof.  

I worked for a health insurance company for 10 years.  Knowledge of Hipaa laws was something we had to pass tests on as part of our employment to ensure we weren't breaking any laws.  

I am still not sure how this works.  As I understand HIPPA was created during what was called the AIDS pandemic to prevent discrimination against anyone with AIDS.  

The other thing I do not understand is why there is discrimination against anyone with natural immunity to COVID-19 that does not want the risk of taking the shot(s).  As I understand such are no more risk than someone fully treated for COVID-19.  What kind of science would back forced treatment for anyone with immunity???  I am yet to see any such official statement from either the CDC or  Mr. Fauci (that seems to know a lot more about the studies of the COVID-19 virous than he is willing to openly admit). 

 

The Traveler

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7 hours ago, pam said:

Again...I don't know how I can make it any clearer.  Please read my above post.  An employer or school requiring proof of vaccinations does not violate hipaa laws.  

But they had better be aware of The Nuremburg Code and how they could potentially end up charged with violation of that code as more and more and more and more information comes out about these experimental, (non FDA approved), vaccines.  

 

Quote

 

"Nuremburg codes stipulate that consent must be voluntary.
Telling a child that they cannot go to school, firing people from work, or preventing their travel is NOT voluntary consent.
Threatening someone's livelihood unless they take an experimental vaccine is NOT voluntary consent." (Candace Owens, 7,7, 2021, 4:04 pm, Twitter for iPhone) 

 

 

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It would seem that with their less than stringent observance of covid related medical advice requiring the temporary lessening of certain social liberties, such as lockdowns, mask wearing and social distancing, some Americans have transformed the old rallying cry of give me liberty or give me death into give me liberty and thereby death. There’s nothing wrong with that, choosing liberty is a valid choice to make. Except when it impacts on the ability of others to make the same choice. Which is what happens when someone dies because someone else has chosen the liberty of not wearing a mask or not following other covid related medical advice.

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On 7/23/2021 at 12:58 AM, mirkwood said:

 Seems like an awful lot of finger wagging going on in the Church these days.

 

 

 

 

It seems to be more than just finger wagging

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/latter-day-saint-charities-unicef-covid-19-response

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On 7/24/2021 at 1:57 AM, Vort said:

You spelled HIPAA correctly. What's wrong with you?

 

21 hours ago, pam said:

  Knowledge of Hipaa laws was something we had to pass tests on as part of our employment to ensure we weren't breaking any laws.  

@pam did you pass the tests? :)

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1 hour ago, askandanswer said:

Which is what happens when someone dies because someone else has chosen the liberty of not wearing a mask or not following other covid related medical advice.

But this does not happen. Those who fear getting the dread Covid virus have but to "mask up" to gain the near-magical protection offered thereby.

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2 hours ago, askandanswer said:

some Americans have transformed the old rallying cry of give me liberty or give me death into give me liberty and thereby death. 

Them pesky Americans, at it again. 
In other news... pesky Australians appear to be demanding liberty too. 

f3c8d9e65da23ae2.thumb.jpeg.0c65d4ce24e492ba2e63f07d91887c65.jpeg
1732990122_Untitled-1copy.jpg.91d2a0a78e59fcf9bda4bb393c3be9aa.jpg

 

Edited by NeedleinA

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17 hours ago, askandanswer said:

 

@pam did you pass the tests? :)

I must have having worked there 10 years.

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15 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

Them pesky Americans, at it again. 
In other news... pesky Australians appear to be demanding liberty too. 

f3c8d9e65da23ae2.thumb.jpeg.0c65d4ce24e492ba2e63f07d91887c65.jpeg
1732990122_Untitled-1copy.jpg.91d2a0a78e59fcf9bda4bb393c3be9aa.jpg

 

I've had a careful look and I think they're all a bunch of American tourists who happened to be in Sydney last week. You can tell by the absence of beer bottles. :) 

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On 7/22/2021 at 6:37 AM, Carborendum said:

This is not possible, look at what our lovely President Biden had to say about being vaccinated (watch at 7:10). Maybe, just maybe, President Biden needs a Fact Checker to fact check him and manipulate what he said into a positive light. 😛

I think we live in a very interesting time where people -- are likely to be forced -- to get something for their protection that actually kills them. What a great world where we feel safer to end someones life for "their protection." Yes, that is a little cynical, but that's where we are. It's OK if the vaccine kills a few, as long as I am safe.

Edited by Anddenex

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On 7/22/2021 at 9:00 AM, dprh said:

Carb's article and Neurotypical's post indicates NJ's unvaccinated survival rate would be 1-0.0027, so 99.73%.  Survival rate of vaccinated people is 99.9991%.  Yes, it seems like a small difference but like I said before, it's degrees of magnitude in difference.

Edit: Just a little more maths.  I took the difference of the rates.  It's 0.26911%.  Multiply that by the estimated world population of 7.5 Billion and it's 20,182,500.  If everyone on the planet got the virus (which seems inevitable) , the difference if everyone were vaccinated or unvaccinated would be over 20 million deaths.

Did everyone get the Spanish Flu, and was their a vaccine given for the Spanish Flu? Honest question in light of your response about everyone going to get Covid.

Edited by Anddenex

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What was said:

On 7/22/2021 at 9:58 AM, mirkwood said:

38.7.13

Vaccinations

Vaccinations administered by competent medical professionals protect health and preserve life. Members of the Church are encouraged to safeguard themselves, their children, and their communities through vaccination.

Ultimately, individuals are responsible to make their own decisions about vaccination. If members have concerns, they should counsel with competent medical professionals and also seek the guidance of the Holy Ghost.

What some believe they actually heard:

Quote

Ultimately, individuals are responsible to take the Covid vaccine. 

 

Edited by NeedleinA

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Senator and physician Rand Paul recently said:

Quote

The largest area of misinformation is actually coming from the government...

...natural immunity is robust. A study from Washington University School of Medicine just recently says, "mild infection with SARS Covid 2 induces a robust antigen specific long lived humoral immune memory in humans". Cleveland Clinic studied 50,000 employees showing that those who had the disease previously had the same if not better immunity than those who had been vaccinated. 

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10 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

Senator and physician Rand Paul recently said:

Quote

The largest area of misinformation is actually coming from the government...

...natural immunity is robust. A study from Washington University School of Medicine just recently says, "mild infection with SARS Covid 2 induces a robust antigen specific long lived humoral immune memory in humans". Cleveland Clinic studied 50,000 employees showing that those who had the disease previously had the same if not better immunity than those who had been vaccinated

I don't care what politicians say, but I do care about studies and data.  And both of the things Paul cites are worthy additions to our understanding of Mommy Rona. 

Washington U study: https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/good-news-mild-covid-19-induces-lasting-antibody-protection/
Cleveland Clinic study: https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210608/No-point-vaccinating-those-whoe28099ve-had-COVID-19-Findings-of-Cleveland-Clinic-study.aspx

Both of these are common sense and hardly surprising, but it's still nice to see scientific confirmation.

That said, I can totally understand why public policy makers and health organizations are pushing the vaccination to everyone, whether they've been infected or not.  It's the large number of liar-liars-pants-on-fires out there.   Just like with mask wearing, suddenly there were millions of people who "can't wear a mask because I've got asthma" or some such lying bull crap.  Now with this news, suddenly there are millions of unvaccinated folks who "already had covid", who are lying to get past whatever questionnaire or checkpoint or conversation.

That said, I can totally understand why so many people easily lie in such situations.  Folks who love freedom tend to despise questionnaires or checkpoints or conversations delving into their personal medical decisions, for many good reasons.

At the end of the day, for me, the vaccine means now people have a choice.  That choice means the govt control and mandates and health orders and stuff all need to go away.

And honestly, they have, more than anyone wants to admit.  Now the politicians on the federal level are happily keeping the issue alive and on the front page, because it's a way to get votes.   I note that Colorado's solid blue governor dumped all the statewide mandates, stopped throwing news conferences, and is more than happy to get back to business as usual.  Your state may differ.

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13 hours ago, Anddenex said:

Did everyone get the Spanish Flu, and was their a vaccine given for the Spanish Flu? Honest question in light of your response about everyone going to get Covid.

Pretty much, yes.

https://www.history.com/news/1918-flu-pandemic-never-ended

https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2020/09/01/1918-flu-pandemic-end/

Edited by dprh

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49 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

I can totally understand why so many people easily lie in such situations.  Folks who love freedom tend to despise questionnaires or checkpoints or conversations delving into their personal medical decisions, for many good reasons.

I can too, because I generally share their “don’t tell me what to do” philosophy. However, and it’s a huge however, I also understand  things like the differences between “assault on freedom” and “light inconvenience”. If whining about wearing a mask is what you choose to complain about, your life is going amazingly well. 
 

There are, literally, people in India who are dying because of their lack of vaccines and masks. They’ll happily take yours. 

Edited by LDSGator

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32 minutes ago, dprh said:

Thank you. I do find Washington Post comment about how in communities where Spanish Flu spread it became less lethal with no vaccines, and the vaccines they were trying according to another article on the history of vaccines for Spanish it says the following:
 

Quote

Certainly none of the vaccines described above prevented viral influenza infection – we know now that influenza is caused by a virus, and none of the vaccines protected against it. But were any of them protective against the bacterial infections that developed secondary to influenza? Vaccinologist Stanley A. Plotkin, MD, thinks they were not. He told us, “The bacterial vaccines developed for Spanish influenza were probably ineffective because at the time it was not known that pneumococcal bacteria come in many, many serotypes and that of the bacterial group they called B. influenzae, only one type is a major pathogen.” In other words, the vaccine developers had little ability to identify, isolate, and produce all the potential disease-causing strains of bacteria circulating at the time. Indeed, today’s pneumococcal vaccine for children protects against 13 serotypes of that bacteria, and the vaccine for adults protects against 23 serotypes.

I guess, no vaccine and yet human condition overcame. I find that more telling.

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11 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

Senator and physician Rand Paul recently said:

My brother and sister-in-law in California were amongst the first to get Covid. They are actually part of the major studies in California and were also part of where they were able to see how it distributed to California residents in San Diego. When I recently spoke with my sister-in-law she mentioned how her anti-body count was significantly still higher than those who are now getting the virus. I find that interesting. Her anti-body count is also higher than those with the vaccine.

Now, to be fair and honest, despite their high anti-body count they both decided to get the vaccine because their anti-body count was getting lower, but I wonder if that also has to do with how much plasma -- anti-bodies -- from themselves they have donated. And because their count is so high they keep getting asked to come back and donate. They were part of the plasma donations in the beginning in California for people who were getting Covid.

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