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Fether

Critical Race Theory - Someone (liberal) please explain

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7 hours ago, Manners Matter said:

I recently saw a headline about leaked documents from the Iowa school system and what teachers are forced to classify as racist thanks to CRT. You might want to google it.

Nvm I found it

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-h0EWxqHAZUfheFvuFRtVpEz5ODSxuI6/view?usp=drivesdk

What is extremely annoying is that those who push CRT talk as if this is all factual and we all know what is being talked about. I can’t help but think when I read “institutional racisms example: Government policies that explicitly restricted the ability of people to get loans to buy
or improve their homes in neighborhoods with high concentrations of African
Americans” that they are saying blacks can’t get loans because of racism, and not because of a poor financial history and high risk for the bank.
 

In the recent Falcon and the Winter Soldier, there was a scene where two black people were at the bank trying to get a loan, but because their business didn’t have a financial history for the previous 5 years, they didn’t qualify for a loan… but it was spun as if it was racism.

Edited by Fether

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27 minutes ago, Fether said:

Government policies that explicitly restricted the ability of people to get loans to buy
or improve their homes in neighborhoods with high concentrations of African
Americans” that they are saying blacks can’t get loans because of racism, and not because of a poor financial history and high risk for the bank.

There was a time when real policies existed for this purpose.  It was called Redlining.  Those policies are no longer in effect, so the current claim is that the historical issues propagated poverty to the current day, and impoverished communities (minorities in particular) are continually impacted by the racism of the past with no recourse to improve their lives on their own.  Of course, that is false, because almost anyone can improve their livelihood through their own efforts.

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40 minutes ago, person0 said:

There was a time when real policies existed for this purpose.  It was called Redlining.  Those policies are no longer in effect, so the current claim is that the historical issues propagated poverty to the current day, and impoverished communities (minorities in particular) are continually impacted by the racism of the past with no recourse to improve their lives on their own.  Of course, that is false, because almost anyone can improve their livelihood through their own efforts.

Indeed; redlining has been illegal since the late 1960s.  I can *sort of* see the argument that white middle class folks from better neighborhoods were able to leave their kids with a bigger inheritance which percolates down to the present day.  On the other hand, speaking anecdotally:  my parents inherited very little on their own parents’ deaths, and what they did inherit was after they were well-established in life.  The “inheritance” that really matters is cultural—a stable trauma-free childhood, two parents in the home who are both engaged in their children’s care and upbringing, and inculcation of values like respect for authority and delayed gratification and resilience and planning for the future.  

I would acknowledge that there are still stereotypes and influences out there that mean that all other things being equal, a black person probably has to work somewhat harder to get ahead in life than a whole person does.  But don’t think that skin tone alone permanently hamstrings a black person’s ambitions in the way the critical race theorists want me to think that it does.  Rejection of traditional American cultural values that critical race theorists pooh-pooh as “whiteness”—the stuff in that infamous Smithsonian infographic, for example; like nuclear families and property rights and rational, linear thinking and independence and self-reliance and scientific method and politeness and ability to keep to a schedule and clarity in speaking and writing and judging people by their intent as well as the results of their actions (https://www.newsweek.com/smithsonian-race-guidelines-rational-thinking-hard-work-are-white-values-1518333)—rejection of those ideals will set you back; in any society, no matter what color your skin is.  

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image.png.f4c7a718cb322dfe9bca389ba09a976e.png

Because of the modern social climate fostered by the organizations and individuals who support and sustain CRT, they have established real and actionable institutional power for minority races (black in particular), and have implemented Affirmative Action which is by definition "a system of advantage based on race".  Therefore, an interesting thing about this new-fangled definition of racism is that, in acquiring the power and influence to re-define the word racism and institute Affirmative Action, minority proponents of CRT have exerted "social and institutional power" and unintentionally defined themselves into perpetrators of racism.

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1 hour ago, person0 said:

the organizations and individuals who support and sustain CRT, they have established real and actionable institutional power

What are conservatives establishing as of late?
What 'action' are conservatives willing to actually do about issues facing us as a nation OR are 'we' (myself included) sitting on the sidelines neutralized simply watching things play out?
Every time I see a parent stand up at a School board meeting and voice their concerns over issues like CRT, I witness some glimmer of hope.
We need more of this, more action.

Are you (generic you), are we members of the Church?
Want a kick to the groin? (of course!)
President Ezra Taft Benson said:

Quote

And now as to the last neutralizer that the devil uses most effectively—it is simply this: “Don’t do anything in the fight for freedom until the Church sets up its own specific program to save the Constitution.” This brings us right back to the scripture opened with today—to those slothful servants who will not do anything until they are “compelled in all things” [D&C 58:26]. Maybe the Lord will never set up a specific church program for the purpose of saving the Constitution. Perhaps if he set one up at this time it might split the Church asunder, and perhaps he does not want that to happen yet for not all the wheat and tares are fully ripe.

The Prophet Joseph Smith declared it will be the elders of Israel who will step forward to help save the Constitution, not the Church. And have we elders been warned? Yes, we have. And have we elders been given the guidelines? Yes indeed, we have. And besides, if the Church should ever inaugurate a program, who do you think would be in the forefront to get it moving? It would not be those who were sitting on the sidelines prior to that time or those who were appeasing the enemy.

 

 

Edited by NeedleinA

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26 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

What are conservatives establishing as of late?
What 'action' are conservatives willing to actually do about issues facing us as a nation OR are 'we' (myself included) sitting on the sidelines neutralized simply watching things play out?

Well, my wife and I took our kids out of the public school system and are homeschooling them, that is the action we have taken.  There is some expansion in the works on that to create a local homeschool co-op.  I would suggest one of the most effective things that could be done would be for people to leave the public school system en masse.  Then you have complete control over what is being taught to your children, and the principles of the Constitution and liberty can be instilled within them at home.

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13 minutes ago, person0 said:

Well, my wife and I took our kids out of the public school system and are homeschooling them, that is the action we have taken.

Bingo!
We sold our home and moved to a different school district 4 years ago.
We home schooled our kids until Middle-School. We have one home schooler left and the other two are in a very conservative school district for now.

 

 

@person0 I hope my last post didn't come off as something directed at 'you' specifically... it was generic. I tried to edit/clarify it just in case.

Edited by NeedleinA

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On 6/21/2021 at 11:03 PM, mordorbund said:

Anyway, here in Loudoun County the superintendent didn't like all the hullaballoo around CRT so he released a statement making it very clear that it wasn't being used or taught.

Thought of your post @mordorbund when I saw this.
a.jpg.ad55eaeb90636e5989d24c84d18ceca8.jpg

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I have lived in different countries with diverse demographics. Maybe one day I will start a thread discussing my findings, but the impact that culture and traditions have in certain races and ethnicities cannot be ignored. Just last week, talking casually about the Royals with an acquaintance I was accused of  being racist because I said Meghan Markle's body language during the Oprah interview showed signs of deception. I didn't get upset... I laughed because that's what I do when I hear something  absolutely and ridiculously absurd.

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17 hours ago, person0 said:

Well, my wife and I took our kids out of the public school system and are homeschooling them, that is the action we have taken.  There is some expansion in the works on that to create a local homeschool co-op.  I would suggest one of the most effective things that could be done would be for people to leave the public school system en masse.  Then you have complete control over what is being taught to your children, and the principles of the Constitution and liberty can be instilled within them at home.

17 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

We sold our home and moved to a different school district 4 years ago.

We put our kids into a private school a few years ago.  They've been thriving.  So has the school.  There is a waiting list so long, we don't know if we can keep up.  We've been blessed with a generous benefactor.  They've purchased more properties to build new schools.  They've asked me to head up the efforts in developing the properties.

This may seem like a simple business model.  But it is more than that.

People are waiting in line because they see what is happening.  They know that they can no longer simply "hope" that the public school system won't corrupt their kids.  The School Administrator said in a meeting that we need to build these schools faster because too many families are concerned about what their children being taught.

  • Boys are girls and girls are boys. 
  • They're racist even when they've never even had a racist thought in their lives.
  • They're being taught that homosexuality is superior to hetrosexuality.  And "pansexuals" are the most tolerant of all. 
  • They're being taught that government running your life is the best way to live. 
  • They're being taught that the United States is the most evil, racist, oppressive nation that has ever been established on this earth.

Now, consider those last two and recognize just how contradictory the mindset is to accept such ideas.

Edited by Carborendum

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50 minutes ago, Carborendum said:
  • Boys are girls and girls are boys. 
  • They're racist even when they've never even had a racist thought in their lives.
  • They're being taught that homosexuality is superior to hetrosexuality.  And "pansexuals" are the most tolerant of all. 
  • They're being taught that government running your life is the best way to live. 
  • They're being taught that the United States is the most evil, racist, oppressive nation that has ever been established on this earth.

Then they look at the parents and say, "What are you all so upset over!?!"

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9 hours ago, Suzie said:

I have lived in different countries with diverse demographics. Maybe one day I will start a thread discussing my findings, but the impact that culture and traditions have in certain races and ethnicities cannot be ignored. Just last week, talking casually about the Royals with an acquaintance I was accused of  being racist because I said Meghan Markle's body language during the Oprah interview showed signs of deception. I didn't get upset... I laughed because that's what I do when I hear something  absolutely and ridiculously absurd.

Welcome to the evil side*, sister.  We’ll make a conservative of you yet!!!
 

 

*I was going to write “the dark side”, but given the nature of the thread that seemed . . . inappropriate . . .

Edited by Just_A_Guy

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On 6/23/2021 at 8:29 AM, Just_A_Guy said:

my parents inherited very little on their own parents’ deaths, and what they did inherit was after they were well-established in life.

This is what I don't understand about depending on inheritance: most people aren't sitting around in poverty waiting on an inheritance to save them. 

Yup, it just doesn't work as an excuse.

 

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On 6/23/2021 at 1:02 PM, person0 said:

Well, my wife and I took our kids out of the public school system and are homeschooling them, that is the action we have taken.  There is some expansion in the works on that to create a local homeschool co-op.  I would suggest one of the most effective things that could be done would be for people to leave the public school system en masse.  Then you have complete control over what is being taught to your children, and the principles of the Constitution and liberty can be instilled within them at home.

As someone who arguably helps kids homeschool, this is so dependent on what families are willing to do and sacrifice.

I've seen a number of families come to my online school in order to homeschool, watch and better control what their kids learn, bond as a family, etc ,...

And fail miserably.

These families say one thing of great values, but can't be bothered to work with their kids. Oh, we need to be a part of the education? We need to spend time with our kids for this to work? What if we don't like our kids?

The hard truth is families truly must take all this for their own responsibility.

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24 minutes ago, Backroads said:

As someone who arguably helps kids homeschool, this is so dependent on what families are willing to do and sacrifice.

I've seen a number of families come to my online school in order to homeschool, watch and better control what their kids learn, bond as a family, etc ,...

And fail miserably.

These families say one thing of great values, but can't be bothered to work with their kids. Oh, we need to be a part of the education? We need to spend time with our kids for this to work? What if we don't like our kids?

The hard truth is families truly must take all this for their own responsibility.

I will say that homeschooling is HARD WORK.  But the truth is that even if you do it half-baked, then it is still better than the great majority of public schools today.

When I was first married, one item of debate was whether to homeschool or public school.  We were nowhere near a position where we could even think about private school.

My biggest concern was that they would not get the quality of education I had growing up.  Her biggest concern was the indoctrination aspect.  It was hard for us to settle because the schools I was raised in didn't have the indoctrination issue.  But the schools she was in did have that problem, and they were not all that high quality.  So, our different backgrounds made for different opinions on the matter.

As we had our first child, we became more and more aware of what our surrounding school system was like.  I began seeing what my wife was talking about.  I also kept hearing more and more things in the news that said that those values I held dear were being shunned in public schools.  This was liberal media touting that as a good thing.

What vindicated me was my first born and his love of learning.  While my wife didn't have the best scholastic education (although she has taken great attempts at self-education through 1000 books) she did have a love of learning.  And this filtered down to the children. I've probably told the following story before. But I'll tell it again because I like bragging about my kids.

Quote

The primary of our ward separated junior and senior primary at 8 years old.  I'm not sure about the specifics of the calendar and whatnot.  But @Ffenix was 7 years old, junior primary.  When it came time for a child to come up and read the scripture of the week, the primary presidency had a tough time.  They had learned through the past 5 months (it was a new ward) that with the junior primary, child after child attempted to read, but couldn't.  Then they realized that my son could read.

They eventually took to simply asking my children to read any time in junior primary because they were the only ones that could.

When I realized that the public school system was doing worse than my homeschooled children, there was no more comparing pros and cons.  Public school (at least in my area) had nothing to offer.  I've been sold on homeschooling ever since.

**************************

Now, to the aspect of parents wanting to be involved.  One thing about this private school I'm involved in:  Most of the parents wanted it to be like a homeschool co-op.  They wanted to be involved.  They wanted to care about their kids.  But they just wanted more time to be at work and other things with life. 

Adding that many more hours a day helping kids learn is difficult to balance.  But the school is specifically peopled with parents who have already made that sacrifice.  Now that they're getting older, they want some more balance -- if it is available.  This school allows for that balance to be available.

All the parents have to go through training and sign contracts on the requirements for parents to be involved in various activities.  But the guides (teacher) are there to help supplement their time.  An underlying principle is that without the parental involvement, the system will not work.

Edited by Carborendum

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28 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

, to the aspect of parents wanting to be involved.  One thing about this private school I'm involved in:  Most of the parents wanted it to be like a homeschool co-op.  They wanted to be involved.  They wanted to care about their kids.  But they just wanted more time to be at work and other things with life. 

That's what I've seen. some of my families expected Mom to help with schooling and run the family business. It is often too much for the parents. Private school or even a co-op would provide balance.

Another one, and I'm not sure what would be another way to help them, so wanted to learn at home. But their kid's behavior and learning issues were too much. Last I heard the parents were trying to find some sort of hybrid plan with the local school district as they didn't have a nearby private school that provided special education or an agreeable homeschool group.

 I think families need to be prepared to make sacrifices for their needs.

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1 hour ago, Backroads said:

As someone who arguably helps kids homeschool, this is so dependent on what families are willing to do and sacrifice.

I've seen a number of families come to my online school in order to homeschool, watch and better control what their kids learn, bond as a family, etc ,...

And fail miserably.

These families say one thing of great values, but can't be bothered to work with their kids. Oh, we need to be a part of the education? We need to spend time with our kids for this to work? What if we don't like our kids?

The hard truth is families truly must take all this for their own responsibility.

I can imagine that.  My wife used to be a public school teacher, so she is accustomed to the effort.  We have a dedicated homeschool room where she works her magic with the kids.  I think it is fair to say that the majority of her time as a mother is spent teaching and preparing.

image.png.93f73918dee4e24e4a0ebbbe26aa407d.png

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@Backroadsand @person0  With rare exceptions the children that do well in school have parents that are interested and involved.  Please note that parents is plural.   The children that do poorly (with rare exception) are children without parental influence in their home that is interested and involved in their education.  It should be obvious that systemic racism or critical racism is that which abhors parents that are interested and invested in their children and instead glamorizes sex without responsibility of ever creating children - especially when such is done through institutions (schools and government) towards a specific group of people.  Abortion targeted towards a specific race (more in one race than another) is perhaps one of the greatest examples of critical race theory in action.

 

The Traveler

Edited by Traveler

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Welcome to the evil side*, sister.  We’ll make a conservative of you yet!!!

😂 You guys call me "liberal" or "progressive" (a term I use often to describe my views) BUT I don't think they fit into any particular "box". For example: I believe in legal immigration and at the same time I can empathize with those who are fleeing certain countries. But not to the point where they now jump the line and leave behind those people who have been patiently waiting for years. I believe in fairness, the system is a mess and  people shouldn't be waiting for decades to be reunited with family.

Then, racism. I don't believe when people say minorities use the "race card" for everything. This isn't always the case,  there are genuine cases of racism taking place daily and cannot and should not be ignored or automatically categorized as using the "race card".  Also, people assume too many things when they see someone from another ethnicity or culture , they automatically assume the person is illegal, uneducated,  they can't speak English or they are on welfare. This mindset cannot be right and I blame this to ignorance, particularly lack of exposure and traveling. The most "exotic" places  people go is Hawaii! Real exposure to people of other cultures and races is needed to stop prejudice.

What happened to George Floyd was horrible and yet some people chose to talk about his character rather than what was done to him and this isn't good. When the Black Lives Matter movement started, I understood the reason why because no one wanted a repeat of the 50's and 60's but things got out of control rather quickly, destroying property, hurting others, etc to the point of profiting from this and certain individuals becoming millionaires practically overnight. 

I also don't agree with the extent in which we engage in political correctness. It feels as though there is a new term we all have to be careful to use. I cannot keep up with them and I find myself having to explain what I mean when I'm not inclined to do so. And yet at the same time, I deeply believe in respecting every individual and I truly care how they feel and I don't wish to purposely offend anyone. I am just concerned with people losing their jobs or being accused of things they didn't mean. And don' get me started with cultural appropriation...GOOD CULTURE IS MEANT TO BE APPROPRIATED! Unless we are segregationists.

(sorry for the long post and hijacking this thread 😳)

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6 hours ago, Suzie said:

Welcome to the evil side*, sister.  We’ll make a conservative of you yet!!!

😂 You guys call me "liberal" or "progressive" (a term I use often to describe my views) BUT I don't think they fit into any particular "box". For example: I believe in legal immigration and at the same time I can empathize with those who are fleeing certain countries. But not to the point where they now jump the line and leave behind those people who have been patiently waiting for years. I believe in fairness, the system is a mess and  people shouldn't be waiting for decades to be reunited with family.

Then, racism. I don't believe when people say minorities use the "race card" for everything. This isn't always the case,  there are genuine cases of racism taking place daily and cannot and should not be ignored or automatically categorized as using the "race card".  Also, people assume too many things when they see someone from another ethnicity or culture , they automatically assume the person is illegal, uneducated,  they can't speak English or they are on welfare. This mindset cannot be right and I blame this to ignorance, particularly lack of exposure and traveling. The most "exotic" places  people go is Hawaii! Real exposure to people of other cultures and races is needed to stop prejudice.

What happened to George Floyd was horrible and yet some people chose to talk about his character rather than what was done to him and this isn't good. When the Black Lives Matter movement started, I understood the reason why because no one wanted a repeat of the 50's and 60's but things got out of control rather quickly, destroying property, hurting others, etc to the point of profiting from this and certain individuals becoming millionaires practically overnight. 

I also don't agree with the extent in which we engage in political correctness. It feels as though there is a new term we all have to be careful to use. I cannot keep up with them and I find myself having to explain what I mean when I'm not inclined to do so. And yet at the same time, I deeply believe in respecting every individual and I truly care how they feel and I don't wish to purposely offend anyone. I am just concerned with people losing their jobs or being accused of things they didn't mean. And don' get me started with cultural appropriation...GOOD CULTURE IS MEANT TO BE APPROPRIATED! Unless we are segregationists.

(sorry for the long post and hijacking this thread 😳)

Good . . . good . . . let the hate flow through you.  

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Right now, there's a big to-do in the world of fantasy fiction. 

A number of people who self-identify as "progressive" have decided that orcs, the common fantasy villain monsters, are somehow racist stereotypes and that they're "coded" to be black. As such, they're screaming, shrieking, and otherwise demanding that orcs no longer be used as a villain race because to do so is to perpetuate real-world racism. I've heard of at least one school banning fantasy tabletop gaming because of it, and people are ripping into the revived gaming company TSR because they feel that TSR isn't doing enough to combat "discrimination" since they won't bend the knee. 

In response, a large swath of fantasy fans from across the political spectrum are going "Wait... why do you think of black people when you see orcs? Doesn't that say a lot about you instead?". 

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A number of people who self-identify as "progressive" have decided that orcs, the common fantasy villain monsters, are somehow racist stereotypes and that they're "coded" to be black. As such, they're screaming, shrieking, and otherwise demanding that orcs no longer be used as a villain race because to do so is to perpetuate real-world racism.

I'm not into games but how in the world anyone sees an orc and they associate it with black people? Makes no sense whatsoever! But then again, in one of my trips I was asked if "Mormons" don't drink coffee because we're racist. 😳

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