LugiaLvl138

Could the Utah drought force the Church to move?

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As the drought in many Western states intensifies, and as places like Seattle and Portland see triple digit temperatures, my eyes have been turning towards Jackson County Missouri. Specifically the prophecy about the Church moving there in the last days. I have always wondered about the sheer logistical challenge of moving several million people to one place. As crazy as Utah's house prices have gotten in the last year, that would be nothing compared to what would be happening if several million people suddenly tried to move to or even near Jackson County. Additionally I wonder if they all specifically have to move to Jackson County, or if it could be nearby, given that the Wasatch Front in Utah is made up of 4 main counties plus about 6 or 7 smaller secondary counties. Or perhaps I am simply overreacting and Utah's weather cycle will end up flipping around. While I wasn't alive in 1983 when State Street in Salt Lake became a river, I do remember ten years ago as a missionary serving in Midway, spending most of my service time making sandbags to help against potential flooding nearby.

Edited by LugiaLvl138

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Do I think this drought will trigger a mass exodus east? No. Do I think that this drought and other events may lead to some people moving east? Sure! Are these moves inspired by God? Perhaps. 

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I could be wrong but I don't know of any prophecy that says "the Church" is going to relocate to Missouri. Build up a Zion City there? Yes. But that doesn't mean everyone has to move there. I think it will be a gathering point at some future time but only for certain people to accomplish certain responsibilities. Otherwise, the Lord needs us all over the world to do his work.

Now concerning the drought it very well may be one of the many signs of the times. But if you think escaping to Missouri is to escape the less fun signs of the times I would think twice about that. I think that place is going to get "purified" like nothing we've seen before.  To be the Lord's Zion it's got to be.

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80% of Utah’s water goes to agriculture.  We don’t need people to move out, or even to let their lawns die.  We just need the state’s farmers to figure out that this is not California or Iowa, that our climate is naturally hostile to farming (and always has been), and that the rest of us Utahns do not owe them a living.  

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3 hours ago, laronius said:

But if you think escaping to Missouri is to escape the less fun signs of the times I would think twice about that. I think that place is going to get "purified" like nothing we've seen before.  To be the Lord's Zion it's got to be.

Yep. Something terrible would have to happen there to drive out the hundreds of thousands of current residents in the greater Independence area. I personally think much of it will be from man made evils...not just "natural disasters".

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I am most certainly not planning to leave Utah anytime soon. But if I had to go to Missouri, well at least I can still have arch plates, assuming cars are still a thing and I didn't have to walk or push a handcart there. The Gateway Arch in St Louis is a special place to me and, unlike Utah's Delicate Arch, the public is allowed to go atop it. I am also aware that currently, the command for all the saints to gather to a physical Zion such as Utah or Missouri is not in effect. Only sending certain people, like say certain priesthood leaders and their immediate family to do specific things makes sense and avoids most of said logistical problems.

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5 hours ago, LugiaLvl138 said:

I am also aware that currently, the command for all the saints to gather to a physical Zion such as Utah or Missouri is not in effect. Only sending certain people, like say certain priesthood leaders and their immediate family to do specific things makes sense and avoids most of said logistical problems.

Correct. Such direction was given, and unfortunately, ignored in the past, Many of the early saints suffered much for it.

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“On Sunday night (April 26, 1834) the Prophet called on all who held the Priesthood to gather into the little log school house they had there. It was a small house, perhaps 14 feet square. But it held the whole of the Priesthood of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who were then in the town of Kirtland, and who had gathered together to go off in Zion’s camp. That was the first time I ever saw Oliver Cowdery, or heard him speak; the first time I ever saw Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball, and the two Pratts [Orson and Parley], and Orson Hyde and many others. There were no Apostles in the Church then except Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery. When we got together the Prophet called upon the Elders of Israel with him to bear testimony of this work. Those that I have named spoke, and a good many that I have not named, bore their testimonies.

“When they got through the Prophet said, ‘Brethren I have been very much edified and instructed in your testimonies here tonight, but I want to say to you before the Lord, that you know no more concerning the destinies of this Church and kingdom than a babe upon its mother’s lap. You don’t comprehend it.’ I was rather surprised. He said ‘it is only a little handful of Priesthood you see here tonight, but this Church will fill North and South America—it will fill the world.’

“Among other things he said, ‘it will fill the Rocky Mountains. There will be tens of thousands of Latter-day Saints who will be gathered in the Rocky Mountains, and there they will open the door for the establishing of the Gospel among the Lamanites, who will receive the Gospel and their endowments and the blessings of God. This people will go into the Rocky Mountains; they will there build temples to the Most High. They will raise up a posterity there, and the Latter-day Saints who dwell in these mountains will stand in the flesh until the coming of the Son of Man. The Son of Man will come to them while in the Rocky Mountains.” (Wilford Woodruff, Conference Report, April 1898, p. 57.) 

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On 6/27/2021 at 6:39 PM, LugiaLvl138 said:

As the drought in many Western states intensifies, and as places like Seattle and Portland see triple digit temperatures, my eyes have been turning towards Jackson County Missouri. Specifically the prophecy about the Church moving there in the last days. I have always wondered about the sheer logistical challenge of moving several million people to one place. As crazy as Utah's house prices have gotten in the last year, that would be nothing compared to what would be happening if several million people suddenly tried to move to or even near Jackson County. Additionally I wonder if they all specifically have to move to Jackson County, or if it could be nearby, given that the Wasatch Front in Utah is made up of 4 main counties plus about 6 or 7 smaller secondary counties. Or perhaps I am simply overreacting and Utah's weather cycle will end up flipping around. While I wasn't alive in 1983 when State Street in Salt Lake became a river, I do remember ten years ago as a missionary serving in Midway, spending most of my service time making sandbags to help against potential flooding nearby.

One possible option may be of interest to the faculty and staff at B.Y.U. in Jerusalem.  

https://www.hutchisonwater.com/projects/sorek/

 

 

Sorek Desalination Plant

The Sorek sea water reverse osmosis desalination plant is able to processes 624,000 cubic meter of seawater every day. This revolutionary new plant supplies Israel with over 20% of the population’s potable water needs.

Hutchison Water, together with local Israeli partner, have successfully completed all aspects of the project from planning, design, engineering, technology, construction and operation. Through the shared entities of Engineering, Purchasing and Construction (EPC), through the operation of the concessionaire (a SPC) which obtained third parties’ financing for the project, and through the Operations and Maintenance entity, the Sorek Project has received world prominence and acclaim.
In 20014 the project was the awarded “Desalination Project of the Year” award by Global Water Intelligence.

Alleviating the severe water shortage in the region, in 2017 and 2018 the Sorek Desalination Project was able to increase its production by approximately 20% and provide 175 million cubic meters of the highest quality desalinated water annually.

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On 6/27/2021 at 6:41 PM, Fether said:

Do I think this drought will trigger a mass exodus east? No. Do I think that this drought and other events may lead to some people moving east? Sure! Are these moves inspired by God? Perhaps. 

My feeling is that you are being set up for an outreach to the nations of the Middle East that face shortages of water.

A New Mexico biologist and coach wrote an article that fits with Isaiah chapter thirty five that could be applied by Latter day Saints more effectively than by any other group of people.

 

Quote

Global Warming II by Carl Cantrell

So how is our problem of continental drying causing global warming? It all has to do with vegetation and sunlight. When sun light hits a plant, it causes a process which we call photosynthesis where the energy from the sun light creates oxygen for us to breath, water for us to drink, and is stored as sugar for plants and animals to use. When the same sun light hits the soil, all of its energy turns into heat and is radiated back into the atmosphere, carried away by running surface water such as rain fall, is carried away to other areas by our winds, and diffuses down into the soil towards the earth's crust. All of this warms our planet increasing its average temperature.

Therefore, the less vegetation you have on the planet, the more sunlight is being turned into heat and the warmer the planet becomes. This is very critical because warmer and dryer winds dry out other land areas faster decreasing the vegetation on those land areas. Less humidity in the air also reflects less sun light back out into space so that more sun light strikes the earth and more heat is generated.

The truth is that you can do more to decrease global warming by just reducing the average temperature for the Sahara Desert by one or two degrees than if we humans completely quit using fossil fuels and returned to the cave.

So, how would you start working to resolve this problem? Easy, cool the deserts and get some vegetation growing on them as soon as possible. But the method is much more complex than that. You have to use the prevailing trade winds in relation to the deserts to get the best results as quickly as possible and it will be extremely expensive.

Then we build desalination plants along the coast near these water sheds and pipe water to the tops or ridges of the water sheds

This will do a number of things. First, it will increase the moisture in the desert soil so that it will develop water tables and water will begin to run in the streams. This water will increase the amount of vegetation in the area and decrease the amount of heat being generated by sun light cooling the watered area and all areas down wind of the watered area. As more available water evaporates, it will cool the air and reflect more sun light back out into space cooling the area even more. Cooler and more humid air will have less of a heating effect on areas down wind and will reflect more sun light back into space in those areas cooling areas we won't be watering yet. Cooler and more humid air will also have less of a warming effect on our seas and oceans.

Rain water running off of cooler soil will decrease the heating effect on our oceans and our planet crusts which will decrease catastrophic storm activities for other areas and seismic activity for the entire planet. Also, returning more ocean water to the surface and aquifers of our continents will lower the sea levels providing more usable land for us to farm and build on.

With cooler desert areas and increasing vegetation, less water will evaporate from our deserts increasing the amount of surface water even more and increasing the amount of vegetation and animal life by huge amounts because deserts currently take up more than 20% of our land surface. Populations will be able to spread out and there will be less competition for existing land areas.

This strategy has to be done in steps with the first step being to begin slowing the rate at which our global warming is increasing. We need to focus on that until we have brought it to a point to where the temperature is not increasing any more and is reasonably stable. While we are doing this, we need to come to a global consensus of just how cool we want to cool our planet down to. If we cool it down too much, we will begin to have devastatingly harsh winters in large populated areas and even cause an ice age to set in.

Then we begin cooling the planet down to a point which will be most beneficial for all countries or the planet as a whole. We need to gradually bring the temperature down because there may be a lag effect in which the planet will continue cooling after we stop increasing our efforts to cool it off more. We may even want to stop cooling the planet once or twice before we reach our targeted temperatures to see if there is a lag effect


We need to start working on this as soon as possible because, if the planet reaches a point to where it is warming faster than our technology can possibly stop or reverse this warming trend, then our planet is lost and all life will cease to exist on this planet within a relatively short period of time. We will need to start with the largest and hottest deserts because cooling them will have the greatest benefit in the least time. (Global Warming II by biologist Carl Cantrell).

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/ot/isa/35?lang=eng

 

1 The wilderness and the asolitary place shall be bglad for cthem; and the ddesert shall rejoice, and eblossom as the rose.

2 It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of aLebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the bglory of the Lord, and the excellency of our God.

3  Strengthen ye the aweak hands, and confirm the bfeeble knees.

4 Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with avengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you.

5 Then the aeyes of the bblind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped.

6 Then shall the lame man leap as an ahart, and the tongue of the dumb bsing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert.

7 And the aparched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: in the bhabitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes.

 

 

Edited by DennisTate
add scripture

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I feel that you Latter day Saints are being set up for an outreach to all of the Middle East... even to the Islamic nations because this is an ancient Islamic prediction that fits perfectly with Isaiah chapter thirty five.

Empathy for nations with a shortage of water prepares you in a special way to do this type of huge outreach to many nations.  

Quote

Book 005, Number 2208:
"Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (way peace be upon him) as saying: The Last Hour will not come before wealth becomes abundant and overflowing, so much so that a man takes Zakat out of his property and cannot find anyone to accept it from him and till the land of Arabia becomes meadows and rivers."
SAHIH MUSLIM, BOOK 25: The Book on General Behaviour (Kitab Al-Adab)

 

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On 6/27/2021 at 3:39 PM, LugiaLvl138 said:

As the drought in many Western states intensifies, and as places like Seattle and Portland see triple digit temperatures, my eyes have been turning towards Jackson County Missouri. Specifically the prophecy about the Church moving there in the last days. I have always wondered about the sheer logistical challenge of moving several million people to one place. As crazy as Utah's house prices have gotten in the last year, that would be nothing compared to what would be happening if several million people suddenly tried to move to or even near Jackson County. Additionally I wonder if they all specifically have to move to Jackson County, or if it could be nearby, given that the Wasatch Front in Utah is made up of 4 main counties plus about 6 or 7 smaller secondary counties. Or perhaps I am simply overreacting and Utah's weather cycle will end up flipping around. While I wasn't alive in 1983 when State Street in Salt Lake became a river, I do remember ten years ago as a missionary serving in Midway, spending most of my service time making sandbags to help against potential flooding nearby.

It is unlikely that the western drought will placate plans and preparation that will effect the necessary events of the "End of Times".   However, for decades the Church has been acquiring land in Missouri and is now the single largest holder of land in that state.  I personally believe that when the time is right that all the Saints necessary to relocate to Missouri will be able to do so within the time needed - which I believe would be counted in weeks and months rather than years or decades.   For those that keep their covenants with G-d; all things necessary are ready or are being prepared.   And like so many things in history concerning G-d marvelous works and wonders - will likely come about in ways that seem unlikely and inconvenient and an exercise of faith.

 

The Traveler

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On 6/27/2021 at 10:27 PM, Just_A_Guy said:

80% of Utah’s water goes to agriculture.  We don’t need people to move out, or even to let their lawns die.  We just need the state’s farmers to figure out that this is not California or Iowa, that our climate is naturally hostile to farming (and always has been), and that the rest of us Utahns do not owe them a living.  

Or.....  could desalinated water be taken to Utah by pipeline?

The faculty and student body at Brigham Young University campus in Jerusalem are in a special position to really build up a relationship with Israeli scientists, educators, diplomats and religious leaders just by asking the many questions that this automatically leads us to!

 

 

https://www.saharaforestproject.com/

https://www.saharaforestproject.com/technologies/

 

 

Edited by DennisTate
use a different website link....

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In my opinion....  lives are at stake.....

we could even present an argument that millions or even tens of millions of lives are at stake with what is happening now with the heat wave in western USA and even up into Canada and Alaska.

I began a poll and discussion with the following title on another forum but so far I am the only person who chose one of the poll options.

"The heat wave in western USA and Canada, Global Warming or negation of Global Dimming Effect?"

?

Is the heat wave of the summer of 2021 the negation of The Global Dimming Effect?

  1.  

    No

     
    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2.  

    Yes

     
    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. *

    Maybe.... but that sure is not what BigMedia is telling us!!!!!

     
    1 vote(s)
    100.0%

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Here is an explanation for the Global Dimming Effect and interestingly enough much of the research on the topic was done first in the USA after the September 11, 2001 terrorist attack but also in the nation of Israel but then in the Malive Islands.  

"Actually.... much as volcanic activity puts ash, soot and dust into the atmosphere that causes COOLING of the climate...... so also the dust, soot and ash from industry STOPPING over the past year and half DECREASE THE GLOBAL DIMMING EFFECT.... which sets in motion rapid warming.... (which may help to explain the HEAT WAVE in the Western USA and western Canada now in July of 2021)???

Since April of 2020 the world economy virtually shut down...... which tends to Decrease the Global Dimming Effect..... which can cause rapid WARMING!!!!!???? The reporters on CNN and BigMedia are unlikely to tell you and I about this though!"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes/horizon/dimming_trans.shtml

Quote

...... "NARRATOR: Burning fuel doesn't just produce the invisible greenhouse gases which cause global warming. It also produces visible pollution, tiny airborne particles of soot and other pollutants. These produce the haze which shrouds our cities. So Ramanathan wondered: Could this pollution be causing Global Dimming? The Maldives were the perfect place to find out. The Maldives seem unpolluted, but in fact the northern islands sit in a stream of dirty air descending from India. Only the southern tip of the long island chain enjoys clean air coming all the way from Antarctica. So by comparing the northern islands with the southern ones, Ramanathan and his colleagues would be able to see exactly what difference the pollution made to the atmosphere and the sunlight. Project INDOEX, as it was called, was a huge multinational effort. For four years every possible technique was used to sample and monitor the atmosphere over the Maldives. INDOEX cost twenty-five million dollars, but it produced results - and they surprised everyone.

PROF VEERABHADRAN RAMANATHAN: The stunning part of the experiment was this pollutant layer which was three kilometre thick, cut down the sunlight reaching the ocean by more than 10%.

NARRATOR: A 10% fall in sunlight meant that particle pollution was having a far bigger effect than anyone had thought possible.

PROF VEERABHADRAN RAMANATHAN: Our models led us to believe the human impact on the dimming was close to half to one per cent. So what we discovered was tenfold.

NARRATOR: INDOEX showed that the pollution particles were blocking some sunlight themselves; but far more significant was what they were doing to the clouds. They were turning them into giant mirrors. Clouds are made of droplets of water. These only form when water vapour in the atmosphere starts to condense on the surface of naturally occurring airborne particles, typically pollen or sea salt. As they grow, the water droplets eventually become so heavy they fall as rain. But Ramanathan found that polluted air contained far more particles than the unpolluted air, particles of ash, soot and sulphur dioxide.

PROF VEERABHADRAN RAMANATHAN: We saw ten times more particles in the polluted air mass north of the Maldives compared with what we saw south of the Maldives which was a pristine air mass.

NARRATOR: In the polluted air billions of man-made particles provided ten times as many sites around which water droplets could form. So polluted clouds contained many more water droplets, each one far smaller than it would be naturally. Many small droplets reflect more light than fewer big ones. So the polluted clouds were reflecting more light back into space, preventing the heat of the sun getting through. This was the cause of Global Dimming.

PROF VEERABHADRAN RAMANATHAN: Basically the Global Dimming we saw in the North Indian Ocean, it was contributed on the one hand by the particles themselves shielding the ocean from the sunlight, on the other hand making the clouds brighter. So this insidious soup, consisting of soot, sulphates, nitrates, ash and what have you, was having a double whammy on the Global Dimming.

NARRATOR: And when he looked at satellite images, Ramanathan found the same thing was happening all over the world. Over India. Over China, and extending into the Pacific. Over Western Europe... extending into Africa. Over the British Isles. But it was when scientists started to investigate the effects of Global Dimming that they made the most disturbing discovery of all. Those more reflective clouds could alter the pattern of the world's rainfall. With tragic consequences."

 

Quote

NARRATOR (JACK FORTUNE): This is a film that demands action. It reveals that we may have grossly underestimated the speed at which our climate is changing. At its heart is a deadly new phenomenon. One that until very recently scientists refused to believe even existed. But it may already have led to the starvation of millions. Tonight Horizon examines for the first time the power of what scientists are calling Global Dimming.

NARRATOR: September 12th 2001, the aftermath of tragedy. While America mourned, the weather all over the country was unusually fine. Eight hundred miles west of New York, in Madison, Wisconsin a climate scientist called David Travis was on his way to work.

DR DAVID TRAVIS (University of Wisconsin, Whitewater): Around the twelfth, later on in the day, when I was driving to work, and I noticed how bright blue and clear the sky was. And at first I didn't think about it, then I realised the sky was unusually clear.

NARRATOR: For 15 years Travis had been researching an apparently obscure topic, whether the vapour trails left by aircraft were having a significant effect on the climate. In the aftermath of 9/11 the entire US fleet was grounded, and Travis finally had a chance to find out.

DR DAVID TRAVIS: It was certainly, you know, one of the tiny positives that may have come out of this, an opportunity to do research that hopefully will never happen again.

NARRATOR: Travis suspected the grounding might make a small but detectable change to the climate. But what he observed was both immediate and dramatic.

DR DAVID TRAVIS: We found that the change in temperature range during those three days was just over one degrees C. And you have to realise that from a layman's perspective that doesn't sound like much, but from a climate perspective that is huge.

NARRATOR: One degree in just three days no one had ever seen such a big climatic change happen so fast. This was a new kind of climate change. Scientists call it Global Dimming. Two years ago most of them had never even heard of it, yet now they believe it may mean all their predictions about the future of our climate could be wrong. The trail that would lead to the discovery of Global Dimming began 40 years ago, in Israel with the work of a young English immigrant called Gerry Stanhill. A trained biologist, Gerry got a job helping to design irrigation schemes. His task was to measure how strongly the sun shone over Israel.

DR GERALD STANHILL (Agricultural Research Organisation, Israel): It was important for this work to measure solar radiation, because that is the factor that basically determines how much water crops require.

NARRATOR: For a year Gerry collected data from a network of light meters; the results were much as expected, and were used to help design the national irrigation system. But twenty years later, in the 1980s, Gerry decided to repeat his measurements to check that they were still valid. What he found, stunned him.

DR GERALD STANHILL: Well I was amazed to find that there was a very serious reduction in sunlight, the amount of sunlight in Israel. In fact, if we compare those very early measurements in the 1950s with the current measurements, there was a staggering 22% drop in the sunlight, and that really amazed me.

NARRATOR: A 22% drop in solar energy was simply massive. If it was true surely Israelis should be freezing. There had to be something wrong. So when Gerry published his results they were ignored. DR GERALD STANHILL: I must say the publications had almost no effect whatsoever on the scientific community.

 

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