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BYU Hawaii - vaccine required

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@Just_A_Guy Don't get me started on the honor code.

Of course it's BYU-H's prerogative. I just disagree with the stance.

And on #4 -- that's where my distrust-spidey-sense really starts to tingle.

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1 hour ago, Vort said:

I think the vaccine scare plays into the hands of the duplicitous media. I dearly wish that the many on "my side" that we hear loudly decrying the vaccine as a threat to America's health would just stop it. But in the larger view, their ignorance is certainly no worse in quality than the ignorance of the "other side", which is much greater in scope and much more directly targeted at curtailing liberty.

The problem is there's been this kooky (sp?) anti-vax stuff that's...you know...kooky. And so when a vaccine comes out where "normal" people might have legitimate concerns, it all gets lumped in with the kookiness.

I mean the same thing happens with various other issues. Take Pizza-gate. The kookiness was off the scales. And yet....Epstein Island. But anyone who expresses any suspicion about powerful people being involved in any sort of evil plots gets lumped in with the kooks who buy into all the Pizza-gate stuff.

The same has happened with the vote and "fraud".

Reasonable people are still reasonable....but somehow, all of a sudden, anyone who questions the potential danger of a rushed-to-market vaccine with scores of anecdotal issues being shared...and the even more suspicious suppression of those anecdotes...anyone who has what I believe are legitimate concerns about something that is, in my opinion, legitimately concerning, gets cast out of "polite" society, up to and including not being allowed to attend their otherwise dream college. That's HIGHLY concerning to me in principle.

So I tend to understand the up-in-arms-ness of it all.

1 hour ago, Vort said:

I think this is a losing issue all around for anti-government-encroaching conservatives. I would like to see fewer people getting up in arms over situations like this. If you don't like the policies at BYU-H (or Harvard, or Evergreen College, or Joe's Auto Body Repair and School of Life Sciences), then go somewhere else.

I dislike this. It feels defeatist. It's probably true. But that doesn't mean I have to like it.

Edited by The Folk Prophet

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4 hours ago, Vort said:

I don't think there is anything "particularly unpleasant" about dying of COVID, as opposed to dying of any other respiratory infection. Calling the number of deaths "large" is purely a value judgment. We have not lost 10% of the population to COVID.

I googled the death's in US by cause and found a JAMA study, linked below.  It is using preliminary data, but I found it interesting.  COVID is 3rd in cause of death for 2020 behind heavyweight killers heart disease and cancer.  Still the virus managed to rack up 10% of US kills.  I thought that was impressive.  I always feel pleased with myself if I score 10% of my teams points in basketball.

I do understand that there is a question among some about the veracity of cause of COVID death claims.  But in the "Understanding..." section, they say that at an analytical level, it appears that COVID deaths might actually be under-reported.

On a tangent, I also found it interesting that suicide deaths went down (4k) for the year.  I had assumed that they'd be up, thinking that the isolation would be harmful to those prone to it.  But unintential injuries increased (20k) and they think a lot of that is drug related.  So suicides are more than offset in that category.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2778234

(This isn't really directed at you @Vort, just quoted you because the comment on "large" is what sparked my search :) )

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It’s a shame that as soon as something becomes political, the scientific understanding of that thing becomes obscured. 
 

Instead, it seems that many individuals only seek confirmation bias. They find research that supports what they WANT the truth to be.
 

I’m not sure that any one person, agency, or group can definitively state the truth of COVID numbers as these statistics have been purposely obscured by both well intentioned and sinister-minded individuals from the start. 
 

I would assume that those making decisions for the CES are doing so prayerfully and with as much love and concern for the students as they can muster. I am also sure that they mistakes and err often, just like the rest of us. 

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1 hour ago, LDSGator said:

Can’t blame a liberal conspiracy for this one. 

Untitled-1.thumb.jpg.17286023e9a484ad083491acbeea5c45.jpg

Can I blame them for this one? 😉
1st suicide =  okay, maybe. A shame.
2nd = what the?
3rd = no freaking way!
4th = okay, who is killing them off and doesn't want them to talk about what actually happened that day?

 

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2 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

Untitled-1.thumb.jpg.17286023e9a484ad083491acbeea5c45.jpg

Can I blame them for this one? 😉
1st suicide =  okay, maybe. A shame.
2nd = what the?
3rd = no freaking way!
4th = okay, who is killing them off and doesn't want them to talk about what actually happened that day?

 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-people-fall-for-conspiracy-theories/

https://www.businessinsider.com/psychologist-explains-why-people-believe-conspiracy-theories-during-uncertain-times-2020-4

Truly interesting reading. Obviously, I know it won’t change the mind of anyone. But you never know. Regardless, it’s out there. 

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1 hour ago, NeedleinA said:


1st suicide =  okay, maybe. A shame.
2nd = what the?
3rd = no freaking way!
4th = okay, who is killing them off and doesn't want them to talk about what actually happened that day?

 

Sadly, our profession has about a 2-1 suicide vs. line of duty death rate every year.  

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3 hours ago, LDSGator said:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-people-fall-for-conspiracy-theories/

https://www.businessinsider.com/psychologist-explains-why-people-believe-conspiracy-theories-during-uncertain-times-2020-4

Truly interesting reading. Obviously, I know it won’t change the mind of anyone. But you never know. Regardless, it’s out there. 

 

 

"There is no 'conspiracy theory' in the Book of Mormon. It is a conspiracy fact." (Ezra Taft Benson)

 

 

From the Introduction of the Book of Mormon:

 

Quote
The Book of Mormon is a volume of holy scripture comparable to the Bible.  It is a record of God's dealing with ancient inhabitants of the Americas and contains the fulness of the everlasting gospel.
 
The book was written by many ancient prophets by the spirit of prophecy and revelation.

 

From President Ezra Taft Benson in a General Conference address:

 

Quote
Each of the major writers of the Book of Mormon testified that he wrote for future generations. … If they saw our day and chose those things which would be of greatest worth to us, is not that how we should study the Book of Mormon? We should constantly ask ourselves, “Why did the Lord inspire Mormon (or Moroni or Alma) to include that in his record? What lesson can I learn from that to help me live in this day and age?”
 

 

 

When the Book of Mormon was abridged, Mormon took those things he thought/was inspired, as most profitable to us.  This includes the book of Ether. 
 
The heading for Ether 8:
 
Quote

There is strife and contention over the kingdom—Akish forms an oath-bound secret combination to slay the king—Secret combinations are of the devil and result in the destruction of nationsModern Gentiles are warned against the secret combination that will seek to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries.

 

The chapter tells us the story of Akish and his rise to power using murder and Secret Combinations.

 

Moroni proceeds to tell us about the horrors of Secret Combinations.  In verses 23-26 he is speaking to us.  The modern church members.  Take particular note of verse 24.

 

Quote

23 Wherefore, O ye Gentiles, it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you, which are built up to get apower and gain—and the work, yea, even the work of bdestruction come upon you, yea, even the sword of the justice of the Eternal God shall fall upon you, to your overthrow and destruction if ye shall suffer these things to be.

24 Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this asecret combination which shall be among you; or wo be unto it, because of the blood of them who have been slain; for they cry from the dust for vengeance upon it, and also upon those who built it up.

25 For it cometh to pass that whoso buildeth it up seeketh to overthrow the afreedom of all lands, nations, and countries; and it bringeth to pass the destruction of all people, for it is built up by the devil, who is the father of all lies; even that same liar who bbeguiled our first parents, yea, even that same liar who hath caused man to commit murder from the beginning; who hath chardened the hearts of men that they have dmurdered the prophets, and stoned them, and cast them out from the beginning.

26 Wherefore, I, Moroni, am commanded to write these things that evil may be done away, and that the time may come that Satan may have ano power upon the hearts of the children of men, but that they may be bpersuaded to do good continually, that they may come unto the fountain of all crighteousness and be saved.

 

From the Introduction of the Book of Mormon:
 
  Quote

 

The Book of Mormon is a volume of holy scripture comparable to the Bible.  It is a record of God's dealing with ancient inhabitants of the Americas and contains the fulness of the everlasting gospel.
 
The book was written by many ancient prophets by the spirit of prophecy and revelation.

 

 
 
From President Ezra Taft Benson in a General Conference address:
 
  Quote

 

Each of the major writers of the Book of Mormon testified that he wrote for future generations. … If they saw our day and chose those things which would be of greatest worth to us, is not that how we should study the Book of Mormon? We should constantly ask ourselves, “Why did the Lord inspire Mormon (or Moroni or Alma) to include that in his record? What lesson can I learn from that to help me live in this day and age?”
 

 

 

 
 
When the Book of Mormon was abridged, Mormon took those things he thought/was inspired, as most profitable to us.  This includes the book of Ether. 
 
The heading for Ether 8:
 
  Quote

There is strife and contention over the kingdom—Akish forms an oath-bound secret combination to slay the king—Secret combinations are of the devil and result in the destruction of nationsModern Gentiles are warned against the secret combination that will seek to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries.

 

The chapter tells us the story of Akish and his rise to power using murder and Secret Combinations.

 

Moroni proceeds to tell us about the horrors of Secret Combinations.  In verses 23-26 he is speaking to us.  The modern church members.  Take particular note of verse 24.

 

 

  Quote

23 Wherefore, O ye Gentiles, it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you, which are built up to get apower and gain—and the work, yea, even the work of bdestruction come upon you, yea, even the sword of the justice of the Eternal God shall fall upon you, to your overthrow and destruction if ye shall suffer these things to be.

24 Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this asecret combination which shall be among you; or wo be unto it, because of the blood of them who have been slain; for they cry from the dust for vengeance upon it, and also upon those who built it up.

25 For it cometh to pass that whoso buildeth it up seeketh to overthrow the afreedom of all lands, nations, and countries; and it bringeth to pass the destruction of all people, for it is built up by the devil, who is the father of all lies; even that same liar who bbeguiled our first parents, yea, even that same liar who hath caused man to commit murder from the beginning; who hath chardened the hearts of men that they have dmurdered the prophets, and stoned them, and cast them out from the beginning.

26 Wherefore, I, Moroni, am commanded to write these things that evil may be done away, and that the time may come that Satan may have ano power upon the hearts of the children of men, but that they may be bpersuaded to do good continually, that they may come unto the fountain of all crighteousness and be saved.

 

It dumbfounds me the lengths members of the LDS church will go to write off the dangers of modern SC's in our world.  

 

Edited by mirkwood

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4 hours ago, LDSGator said:

https://apnews.com/article/health-courts-education-indiana-coronavirus-pandemic-eb1408814f3d3c7921fa371675f8c617
 

all three judges are Reagan/Trump nominees. Can’t blame a liberal conspiracy for this one. 

Umm . . .

Law school?

:satan:

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On 7/23/2021 at 11:49 AM, Vort said:

This statement is what the media reports, but it is meaningless. For one thing, life expectancy is calculated from data tabulations extending back for long periods. COVID is still largely a blip on the radar; its statistical effects on life expectancy will be noted in the years to come, not today. For another, "life expectancy" typically is applied to newborns: How long can this newly born child expect to live? What we have been seeing with COVID deaths for the last 20 or so months is mostly old people dying somewhat earlier than expected. To extend this to the 40-and-under crowd as a general "US life expectancy has declined!" is an unjustified scare tactic worthy of Comrade Stalin, Dear Leader Kim, and the 21st-century US news media.

I would like to hear @MarginOfError's take on this. I trust his understanding of and judgment about statistics more than I trust my own.

I've not bothered to read most of the thread, but happened to see this in my notifications.

You're right that putting it in terms of life expectancy is kind of silly.  It is a little alarming, but only in the sense that if only old people are dying, life expectancy shouldn't drop that much.  To get a big drop in life expectancy, you'd need a significant number of young people to die.  But life expectancy doesn't mean much compared between two adjacent years.  It's a metric that has more meaning as a long term trend.

A more meaningful way to look at it is-- and I'll do so without looking up the reference-- but the CDC's preliminary report on 2020 mortality estimated a 15% increase in total mortality in 2020 compared to 2019.  That's a pretty big jump.  Especially considering that most causes of death saw lower numbers. For instance, automobile deaths were something like half of what they usually are (at least through July; I stopped paying attention after that).

For a different way to look at it, the current estimate for COVID deaths is 618,000. Certainly there's some wiggle in that number depending on differences of "died of" vs "died with", but let's go ahead and assume that, generally speaking, most of those deaths are related to complications from COVID and round it down to 600,000. The estimated US population is about 331.5 million.  numerator, meet denominator and you get 0.18% of the population has died of complications from COVID.  In other words, a little bit shy of 2 out of every 1,000 people. 

 

Okay, I looked this one up, because I was curious.  Leading causes of death in the U.S. (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm)  COVID would take 3rd place on that list in 2020. It was pretty bad.

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I remember a song from my early childhood in the '60s called "Ode to Billy Joe". One lyric went:

There was a virus going 'round; Papa caught it, and he died last spring
And now Mama doesn't seem to want to do much of anything

People have been dying of flus and other viruses since mankind began. This is not only not new, it's not a startling horror. It's a part of life, and has been since time immemorial.

So when the news media and the political establishment use a virus as an excuse to engender widespread panic and consolidate their power, I recognize the evil taking place. It's no wild-eyed conspiracy theory to see what's going on right before our very eyes. We are facing a shift in social paradigms and a permanent change in liberties due to a temporary issue.

But woe to anyone who dares bring that up! You are shamed into silence with the most vicious of accusations—"People will DIE because of that!" Strangely enough, people die anyway, all the time. People die horrifically in automobile accidents, yet you don't see calls to get rid of motor vehicles. People die all the time in alcohol-related incidents, yet many today scoff at efforts 100 years ago to do away with such evils by getting rid of the drug that caused it. Death is very literally a part of life. But it's now okay to socially ostracize people and even refuse to employ them or allow them legally to mingle in society without putting on their paper-filter gas masks. And if you point out that the masks are of poor efficiency, you will simply be shouted down by the Ignorami screaming their favorite insult: "Science Denier®!!!"

Of course, all nuance is lost. It's impossible to question the veracity of claims without being assumed (and labeled) an anti-vaxxer. This is true, even if you have explicitly said the opposite. It's impossible to point out the concerning loss of personal liberties without being portrayed as a misanthropic troglodyte.

Sometimes I really, deeply loath our society and the stupidity of the masses (including, or especially, the masses that consider themselves educated). Just another of a long list of unChristlike traits I'm working to better myself on.

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4 hours ago, MarginOfError said:

....

 

Okay, I looked this one up, because I was curious.  Leading causes of death in the U.S. (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm)  COVID would take 3rd place on that list in 2020. It was pretty bad.

From my research I discovered that COVID kills its host via "cytokine storm" and yet for all that die from COVID I have not heard of anyone passing via cytokine storm????  I am very suspicious that the COVID deaths are being exaggerated. 

 

The Traveler

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Looks like SCOTUS won't be hearing cases related to university vaccine mandates.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-12/supreme-court-justice-leaves-university-vaccine-mandate-intact?cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_medium=social&utm_content=business&utm_source=twitter

Worth noting: Justice Barrett rejected the intervention without apparent objection from the other justices. 2 of the 3 7th circuit judges who previously upheld vaccine mandates are Trump appointees.

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