Disney wokeness


NeuroTypical
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4 hours ago, LDSGator said:

Disney recently changed their annual pass holder program and people are losing their minds. I’m seeing people say “This is it, I’m never going back!” all over the place in social media. It’s nonsense of course, they’ll be back once the dust settles. 
 

I bring it up because it once again shows that Disney can’t win. Any move they make, someone will complain. Too woke, not woke enough, too profit driven, the rides always break down....some people just genuinely like complaining, and Disney is their target. 

Not enough Donald Duck at Disneyland/world.  Screw 'em.

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11 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

I literally had a dream the other night where I saw Kermit crying over Jim's grave because he was that frustrated with Disney and was asking Jim for a sign. 

Dude, you gotta lay off the peyote.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 8/24/2021 at 10:25 AM, NeuroTypical said:

Did anyone else pick up on how Luca is a nod to the transgender community?   They seemed to do it so well, pretty much the only folks who got it, was the transgender community.

 

Yes, I did. My kids and I watched Luca the day it was released. My kids are not allowed to watch it anymore. I was thinking it was more about homosexuality than transgenderism so I'd have to watch it again to decide if it applies there, too.

It was interesting to me that so many people didn't think it was LGBT. OK, so...it was not literally about that. The director even clarified such, saying that they were prepubescent boys and there was no romance going on. This is true. 

But the language and themes in the movie seem to be making a point and wanting to influence children to think a certain way. It seems to come from the viewpoint that people are homophobic and attempts to show that there's nothing to fear.

Some say you'd have to be looking hard to see parallels. I couldn't not see them. And I can't be convinced it wasn't deliberate. Not to mention that Disney + has put out openly gay content recently. Have you seen the animated short, "Out?" They waited a little while for us all to be comfortable with the streaming service and then started putting LGBT stuff on there. I think they want to normalize it on their platform a little bit at a time.

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Well, if you were going to not watch Luca because of the themes, you have to pretty much rule out 90% of all shows and movies and stuff these days. Two or three years ago, it became the norm to be alphabet inclusive and woke and put in intentional nods to such things.

Now you know why the church became so incredibly hyper expressive about religious liberty about a decade ago.  They saw us drawing near to a time where we would be any in ever shrinking minority.

Edited by NeuroTypical
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1 hour ago, LDSGator said:

I wonder how that happened. Obviously the values that one generation had were not passed down to the next generation.

Oh that’s easy. It started in the 60s, with the children of the World War II vets. Bunch of pot smoking peace sign throwing antiwar hippie Beatnix. Throw in birth control, which made free love consequence free in theory, but not always practice.  Picture them raising a generation or two, throw in the easy accessibility of divorce, and public policy that put an entire generation or two of black fathers in prison. Next thing you know, religious folks preaching good old celibacy until monogamous marriage, are in the cultural minority.

 

and yes, it’s absolutely how life works. When we see it in the book of Mormon, we call it the “Pride cycle“.

Edited by NeuroTypical
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I don’t like the term “greatest generation” for several reasons. They failed to give their values to their children, and it also takes away from every other generation that came before them. The founding fathers were pretty great too. So were those that fought in the English Civil War. So were the original apostles....

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I watched Luca recently and did not see any themes purposefully put in there regarding LGBT audiences.  I can see how they MIGHT interpret it that way, and very easily say that it was made that way, but I don't feel as if it was.

It seems more like the Foreign films that I've seen in the past or films in other areas of the world.  It has a feel different from the usual US film.  I'd say it was more of a fanciful take on a childhood from whoever wrote it than purposefully promoting anything on a more "adult" scale. 

That said, anyone can interpret things as they want these days, and the film could be easily interpreted in a manner supportive of LGBT if someone wanted to.  It could also be interpreted as supportive of someone who was LDS or the first convert in their family in a state beyond Utah.  It could be any number of things I supppose, as it was a pretty open story of kids who are somewhat on the outside of the group trying to find their way and fit in.

I have had a problem with some of the more recent Disney films, but I didn't really see anything that objectionable about Luca.

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2 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

I have had a problem with some of the more recent Disney films, but I didn't really see anything that objectionable about Luca.

Oh, agreed.  There's really nothing objectionable about Luca.

- When you figure out you are different than everyone else, to an extreme that makes you wonder about your core identity, it is scary.
- It's normal for your parents and loved ones to not have the faintest clue what's up with you, and maybe act out in blundering ways that are at least unhelpful, at most dangerous to you.
- After you transform to your new state of being, it's normal for the people that see the 'new you' to react in fear, disgust, or violence.
- As you go back and forth between your two worlds, you can become lost as to who you actually are.
- The older kid who becomes your hero, who seems to have it all figured out, is probably carrying around his own unresolved crap too.
- You may find unexpected allies and foes, in unexpected places.
- In the end, staying true to yourself is your best bet.
- In the end, your parents and loved ones may even want to join you in transforming to new selves to be around the people in your new world.

I mean, I'm not Luca, I'm just a regular old landcrawling human.  When I get into the water, I just get wet, I don't transfer into a brightly colored sea creature (except on halloween).  But for all the Lucas of the world, it's a very very very relevant movie.   And pretty much every transgender person out there is a Luca.  And half the LGB folks too, depending on how they're raised.

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5 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

I watched Luca recently and did not see any themes purposefully put in there regarding LGBT audiences.  I can see how they MIGHT interpret it that way, and very easily say that it was made that way, but I don't feel as if it was.

And most people agree with you. The movie didn't feel right to me. I have impressionable kids at home, and there are so many other options of movies to watch that I feel better avoiding Luca. I disagree that it wasn't meant to be interpreted that way, as I already mentioned. Just my opinion.

On 9/23/2021 at 11:18 AM, NeuroTypical said:

Well, if you were going to not watch Luca because of the themes, you have to pretty much rule out 90% of all shows and movies and stuff these days. Two or three years ago, it became the norm to be alphabet inclusive and woke and put in intentional nods to such things.

These days? Yes, there is a lot that we don't watch. But, if we are talking about all of the great Disney movies from over the years, then I don't agree with it being anywhere near 90% at all. They have shied away from LGBT for a long time, because they know their audience. And the audience is changing, of course, with younger generations raising kids. That's why they have been throwing in "nods," as you say. I'm fine with many of the nods. To me, Luca was different. And it was so plain to me that I don't understand why others don't agree with me, but I respect their opinions. I also didn't like the movie in general so, again, it's easy to avoid.

You were the one who brought it up haha so I feel a bit baited. Did I miss some sarcasm in your question?

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On 9/24/2021 at 6:18 PM, The Folk Prophet said:

That doesn't mean it's healthy, useful, or good.

My opinions about things transgender haven't changed in a long time.  Gender dysphoria and it's sidekicks like body dysmorphia, are horrible and real things.  Folks who suffer from such things deserve to be understood, loved, respected, and helped.    That said, for every actual sufferer of one of these mental illnesses, there are an ever-growing pile of people in our changing culture who figure transgender is the new black, gender is a preference, biological sex isn't relevant, if you think otherwise you should be outed and cancelled, and whatever else people are coming up since I checked the news.

So, for the .1% of the population that actually struggle with this stuff for real, Luca is probably a relevant and interesting movie to watch.  For the millions of folks* blown by the latest cultural wind of transgenderism, they'll probably slavishly lap it up like it was scripture or something. And Disney, along with pretty much all of the rest of the profit driven entertainment industry, as well as corporate America, government, and education, are all happily pursuing wokeness as hard as they can.

 

*Just checked my phone - it's tens of millions of folks.  With an extra million or two every few days.  Someone oughta do something about that, before good is fully evil, evil fully good, the US loses it's status as righteous nation in God's eyes, and we all send ourselves and our children to hell.

Edited by NeuroTypical
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  • 6 months later...

Disney has really shot themselves in the foot here with this Florida bill thing.

Of course, they may be too big and strong for that to really matter. But....I suspect they're going to hurt from what they're doing, and badly.

It will be very interesting to see what happens.

As for my hope, I hope Bob Chapek is fired because he's spineless, and some hard-nosed business guy comes in and lays down the law and starts firing anyone who dares bring up progressive ideas. Short of that, I hope they continue down their radical path and die a slow and painful death.

Of course neither of those things will actually likely happen. More likely they'll weather the storm until the parents who are all hating on them now get in line with the progressive ideologies being pushed, and they'll be back on top again. Either that or all the parents who are hating on them right now won't, in actuality, put their money where their mouths are. Actually that's probably the most likely thing. People will complain about Disney for a while, but everyone will keep dumping their money into the devil's coffers. And then, of course, the consumption of Disney media will be a part of the means where all these conservative parents who are hating on Disney now slowly sell their souls.

Everything is terrible. I'm so depressed.

But...one can hope.

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33 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Disney has really shot themselves in the foot here with this Florida bill thing.

Of course, they may be too big and strong for that to really matter. But....I suspect they're going to hurt from what they're doing, and badly.

It will be very interesting to see what happens.

As for my hope, I hope Bob Chapek is fired because he's spineless, and some hard-nosed business guy comes in and lays down the law and starts firing anyone who dares bring up progressive ideas. Short of that, I hope they continue down their radical path and die a slow and painful death.

Of course neither of those things will actually likely happen. More likely they'll weather the storm until the parents who are all hating on them now get in line with the progressive ideologies being pushed, and they'll be back on top again. Either that or all the parents who are hating on them right now won't, in actuality, put their money where their mouths are. Actually that's probably the most likely thing. People will complain about Disney for a while, but everyone will keep dumping their money into the devil's coffers. And then, of course, the consumption of Disney media will be a part of the means where all these conservative parents who are hating on Disney now slowly sell their souls.

Everything is terrible. I'm so depressed.

But...one can hope.

Chapek is a business man, and so while the entertainment trades are tearing into him the business trades are standing by him. 

The issue with Disney is that Iger was so blinded by money he took his eyes off the day-to-day. This allowed corruption and incompetence to flourish, and by the time Chapek was put in charge it had taken firm root. 

Chapek's decision to have all studio heads report to the head of merchandising and the head of distribution was a key part in bringing people to heel and enforcing order by actually making people listen to folks who ostensibly monitor what is and isn't selling. But the prospect of actually having to be accountable is enough that the corrupt and incompetent within the company are freaking out. They know that if Chapek was any more hardball, let alone "one-time Marvel Comics editor Jim Shooter" levels of disciplinarian, they'd all be in deep, deep trouble. 

This latest round of things has turned over another rock, and the cockroaches that were living under it are therefore in a frenzy. 

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49 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Of course, they may be too big and strong for that to really matter.

Do you honestly think Disney is going to suffer any long term effects over this? 
 

I have no doubt there are people who no longer shop at Target, avoid the NFL, and will no longer go to Disney because of politics. However, that group is small. Very, very small. Vocal and passionate? Yup. But still, very small.

International travelers haven't heard about the drama, and even if they have, they’ll still go to the parks. Same with your average suburbanite family. 

Speaking as a regular park goer, I’m actually a little hopeful that this “boycott” is successful. Hopefully it means shorter lines and wait times at the parks. 

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47 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

Chapek is a business man

Yes, but, apparently, a spineless one. We'll see though. Maybe he'll surprise us.

48 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

Iger was so blinded by money he took his eyes off the day-to-day

As I understand it from the things I've followed, Iger had political ambitions and did more than took his eyes off things...he encouraged/pushed it.

49 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

Chapek's decision to have all studio heads report to the head of merchandising and the head of distribution was a key part in bringing people to heel and enforcing order by actually making people listen to folks who ostensibly monitor what is and isn't selling. But the prospect of actually having to be accountable is enough that the corrupt and incompetent within the company are freaking out. They know that if Chapek was any more hardball, let alone "one-time Marvel Comics editor Jim Shooter" levels of disciplinarian, they'd all be in deep, deep trouble. 

I've heard this theory...but....the last week or two seem to imply that he's not so in control or willing after all. Maybe. We'll see.

49 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

This latest round of things has turned over another rock, and the cockroaches that were living under it are therefore in a frenzy. 

I would love it if this is the case and the result of this is all the wacko's that have been outted as wackos get fired. But....really? I'm doubtful.

32 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Do you honestly think Disney is going to suffer any long term effects over this? 

No. But as I said. Hope.

33 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

I have no doubt there are people who no longer shop at Target, avoid the NFL, and will no longer go to Disney because of politics. However, that group is small. Very, very small. Vocal and passionate? Yup. But still, very small.

I think this is a bigger deal. They've (Disney) really put it out there. They've stated in no uncertain terms that they are coming for the children with their agenda. It's a real wake up call to a lot of people who've been able to write off things thus far.

I could, of course, be wrong. And I'm sure you'll see it differently. But I don't think Disney is going to only lose a little bit of business because of this. They're going to lose a LOT of business.

The question is more, in my opinion, whether they'll learn from that or just take the standard course so many companies are. Blame the toxic fandom and press forward losing money. I expect they will do just that. And, as I said, the culture is moving further and further into the extreme, and eventually it'll catch up to Disney's vision. And Disney can take it. They will still make tons of money. As much as they lose out on profits they could have had, they'll still make money. They'll still have people paying for Disney+. They'll still have people go to their parks. Etc.

So, yes, you're right that Disney will probably weather the matter without too much suffering. But that's only because they're a behemoth that can take getting several of their thousands of heads chopped off without dying. I think though that you're underestimating the response this will garner. I don't think it's like them on the sly saying they put a gay character in Beauty and the Beast. It's big news. And it hits people in ways that really matters to them.

But I could be totally wrong. I probably am. I'm just....sort of....kind of.....a little......hopeful. But not really.

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2 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I think though that you're underestimating the response this will garner.

You may be right-I absolutely could be misreading this. Maybe Disney finally pushed too far.

Like you though, I’m skeptical. I’ve heard roughly the same crowd say the same things about Target, the NFL…and they are still doing just fine. 

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1 minute ago, LDSGator said:

You may be right-I absolutely could be misreading this. Maybe Disney finally pushed too far.

Like you though, I’m skeptical. I’ve heard roughly the same crowd say the same things about Target, the NFL…and they are still doing just fine. 

"Just fine" is relative though.

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10 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

"Just fine" is relative though.

Perhaps. I think political junkies (and I’m one of them, not an insult) misread things about business though. They’ll hear what they want to hear and ignore the rest.
 

Ie-they’ll embrace a “news story” that says the NFL lost revenue here or there but are unwilling and unable to comprehend that 1) their boycott wasn’t the reason and 2) COVID was and 3) the NFL is estimated to make close to 25 billion in a few years. So no, the boycotts have made no bump. 
 

So you are right-“just fine” is relative. And these companies will continue to thrive. 

Edited by LDSGator
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11 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Perhaps. I think political junkies (and I’m one of them, not an insult) misread things about business though. They’ll hear what they want to hear and ignore the rest.
 

Ie-they’ll embrace a “news story” that says the NFL lost revenue here or there but are unwilling and unable to comprehend that 1) their boycott wasn’t the reason and 2) COVID was and 3) the NFL is estimated to make close to 25 billion in a few years. So no, the boycotts have made no bump. 
 

So you are right-“just fine” is relative. And these companies will continue to thrive. 

Part two about misreading news stories. ESPN ratings plummeted lately and conservatives might be thinking it’s because of their boycott of the network because it’s owned by Disney. That’s partially true, but it’s less than 3-5% of the reason why.
 

The real reason their ratings are awful is because I can get sports news, scores and analysis anytime I want to, 24/7. Which makes ESPN irrelevant. I have seen conservatives claim “victory” when they are just unable to see the big picture. 

Edited by LDSGator
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1 minute ago, LDSGator said:

they’ll embrace a “news story” that says the NFL lost revenue here or there but are unwilling and unable to comprehend that 1) their boycott wasn’t the reason and 2) COVID was and 3) the NFL is estimated to make close to 25 billion in a few years. 

Except the boycott was definitely PART of it. Some (particularly the companies) seem to be unwilling and unable to comprehend that. Disney has been bleeding money on their movies since they really started going woke. With few exceptions, their movies are (relatively) failing. And yes, Covid and all that is part of it. But there is no question that the dissatisfaction people have with the woke garbage is a big part of it. But there's also the fact that some of the movies just haven't been that good.

Because there are always going to be multiple components in failure, it's easy to focus on one thing and excuse the other. And that is what Disney and other companies are clearly doing. They have excuse after excuse as to why their current approaches aren't doing as well. But then you get a movie like Spider-man No Way Home come along and...somehow Disney thinks that putting the gay kiss back into the children's Buzz Lightyear movie doesn't basically guarantees it's not going to do very well. It's delusional. But they'll come up with many an excuse as to why it underperforms. None of those excuses will be the inclusion of the gay kiss.

Maybe I'm wrong and parents, in droves, will take their kids to see it and then purchase it and etc., etc., anyhow. Maybe it'll be the next big Disney hit. Heaven help us all if that is the case.

The Wokeness/Brokeness scale is not the only variable in the matter. That is true. You can't make a crappy move without wokeness and expect success. And if you make a crappy movie with wokeness in it's going to fail because it's no good as a movie, despite any wokeness. And you can't make any movie in a pandemic and expect it to be a hit. And if you make a really, really good movie with wokeness in it it may well still do well. Wokeness is not the end all of it. But when you get middling movies that make 100 mill instead of 150 mill because of wokeness, that's still a 50 mill a movie loss. How all those numbers actually work and how much wokeness will actually hurt a company is an unknown. But the plain fact that it is, indeed, hurting companies seems indisputable. Disney, and all companies, would be wise to wise-up and stay politically neutral.

It is, decidedly, more difficult to become neutral after having allowed the wokeness to bleed in though. They all should have stayed neutral throughout.

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