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The Folk Prophet

Musicals

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Just now, mordorbund said:

I've got a fuzzy memory about the sacrifice but I think you're right about that. When I watched it I thought of the Anastasia and the many Romanov pretenders that came out of the woodwork. Tangled ends with a known charlatan presenting yet another heiress-to-be as the bona fide daughter of the king and queen. And the one identifying trait that she has that would positively show she's the missing daughter (her hair) no longer matches. But the power of happy endings wins out and the queen immediately accepts her. Nope. Not buying it.

Thanks for ruining Tangled for me! Jerk.

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@mordorbund have you seen the Big Bang Theory where Amy "ruins" Indiana Jones for them? And then Sheldon spends all his effort and time trying to pic apart stuff she loves to ruin. That's you and me and our relationship moving forward!

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29 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Haha. Ebert is spot on though for most AWL musicals. It's one of the things that really set Phantom apart. More than one hit number.

I am interested in this. Is that plot point that they didn't kill off Eugene? Because boy howdy that would have been SO much more powerful.

I love Tangled. And it isn't destroyed by that Disney choice. But man the power it could have had if he'd actually given his life for her.

I think you're missing the reason Moana is so good. Perfect? No. I agree with your critiques. But they don't ruin what is, at it's core, to me a very powerful and solid show.

And the slow motion singing scene.... HOW DID THAT WORK?!?! It was SO cool!

I'll acquiesce to these points. But I agree with @LDSGator who said that Phantom lives or dies on the Phantom's voice. And why the stink didn't they just use Michael Crawford?!

I saw Phantom as a kid in LA with Crawford in the lead role.  It was pretty awesome.   As an adult, the plot seems amazingly stupid.

it seems to me that the difference between “classic” movie musicals and the newer ones, is that the classical ones still kept the story in the forefront.  The newer ones focus more on wowing audiences either by spectacle, CGI, or the star power of the performers.

Thoughts on The Scarlet Pimpernel, Jekyll and Hyde, and Hello Dolly?

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Oh...and also @mordorbund, (sorry for the multiple posts in a row....), she had the magic healing power still (in her tears). That's how Eugene didn't die. So if push came to shove she could still easily prove she was the one who ate the magic flower or whatever. So neener and pooh on you.

Edit: Which, oddly enough, if she didn't have that, so Eugene actually died, per my "it would be better that way" would indeed create the plot problem you indicate. Hmm.

Edited by The Folk Prophet

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8 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

it seems to me that the difference between “classic” movie musicals and the newer ones, is that the classical ones still kept the story in the forefront.  The newer ones focus more on wowing audiences either by spectacle, CGI, or the star power of the performers.

I think this is true of movies in general. There are some that break through with solid, meaningful story. But mostly it's all about spectacle. Good point.

8 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

The Scarlet Pimpernel

Good. But some weaknesses.

8 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Jekyll and Hyde

Very good. But some weaknesses.

The Anthony Warlow performance in the 1994 Complete Works version may well be the best musical performance of all time.

8 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Hello Dolly

As a story/play. Stinks. I mean it's not terrible. Just...you know...not particularly meaningful. It's light-sauce. Fluff. Some really great music...but not my favorite. I love Put On Your Sunday Clothes and We Got Elegance as music pieces...but not necessarily as musical pieces. If you took the music out of Hello Dolly though it's a throw away nothing. With the music it's classic...but...

Plus Dolly is a jerk. That's never a good thing. She's supposed to be this beloved character but she's a manipulative jerk. It's not funny or endearing. It's just annoying. Cornelius saves the show, of course, as far as character goes.

 

Edited by The Folk Prophet

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25 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

The Scarlet Pimpernel, Jekyll and Hyde

On these, additionally...

After Les Miz and Phantom the "Mega" musical was the in thing, and there were a lot of knock offs...just like there were a lot of knock-offs of Harry Potter post it's success...a lot of knock-off extended universes after Marvel, etc... Typically knock offs are knock offs and don't live up to what they're knocking off. These shows and some like them are part of that syndrome...particularly Jekyll and Hyde.

I understand that. I've spent 25 years writing knock-offs of Les Miz and Phantom. I wish all the extended universe ideas had panned out. I wish all the Harry Potter rip offs had panned out. I would LOVE more Les Miz and Phantom style musicals that were actually good. Better even than those two. We had, arguably, a few that were close. Miss Saigon. Maybe Sunset Boulevard. Jekyll and Hyde. But the mega musical was too expensive to make a return on unless you had a smash hit. So it died. And juke box musicals and known property Disney shows became the thing for the next two decades.

Then we got Hamilton.

As much as I don't particularly care for Hamilton, the existence of it excites me. But I'm also not hopeful. Why? Because the way the "knock-off" world thinks is: "Deadpool was a success...let's make our own R-rated superhero movie!" or "Extended Universes are the key to success..." or "Fantasy books where kids are in school together is what sells..." And of course all of that is nonsense. But what we'll probably get in the wake of Hamilton (If anything. The pandemic may have killed Broadway) is more rap musicals. Because...hey...the novel thing was the rap, therefore that's why it succeeded, therefore...more rap. Right?

I wonder if anyone in Broadway-land has a clue that Hamilton is solidly in the tradition of the Mega musical brought back to life. Yes...it removes the ridiculous stage effects and stuff. But that's never why Les Miz and Phantom were so popular. So...it's smart to simplify. But that being gone means the producers will latch onto some other nonsense icing and ignore the meat. (I think I just mixed metaphors in a disgusting way...but......)

My hope is that Lin Manuel Miranda understands what he did. He, after all, is a hip hop guy, but he's also a musical guy. He knows what he created and why. And he may (finger's crossed) realize that A. another hip hop musical is going to feel very derivative. and B. hip hop is not the key to musical theater's future. And...importantly...he's a really good song writer. So I'm hoping he writes another musical that's not hip hop and brings back the musical tradition that I love the most... through-sung dramatic pieces...but with quality and originality instead of the knock-off mentality that plagues everything so badly right now.

Edited by The Folk Prophet

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42 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

I did not like Starlight Express.  I'm ashamed to admit I'm a sucker for a bouncy song with energetic and clever and sarcastic lyrics, so I love every South Park song I've heard, and 'd probably hate myself for loving The Book of Mormon musical.

I like the show South Park. Under your same reasoning, I thought I'd be a fan of the musical The Book of Mormon. I went to see it with 3 friends. I did not enjoy it and probably would've walked out if I had of been by myself. I really thought the jokes would be centered on unique Mormonism beliefs and the Church's culture, but they went much further beyond that.

The Book of Mormon musical also mocks the Savior in the most obscene, irreverent, and degrading way. I feel ashamed and regretful for having watched it let alone inviting 3 friends along with me.  Matt and Trey, the creators, were really trying to make the musical not just sarcastically funny, but uncomfortable for anyone who places the Savior even on the lowest of pedestals. 

I like to consider myself having an open mind, but the mockery of the Savior was too much for me and left me with a sick feeling in my stomach.  I would dissuade anyone from seeing it, especially those who have a relationship with Christ. 

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Just now, clbent04 said:

I like the show South Park. Under your same reasoning, I thought I'd be a fan of the musical The Book of Mormon. I went to see it with 3 friends. I did not enjoy it and probably would've walked out if I had of been by myself. I really thought the jokes would be centered on unique Mormonism beliefs and the Church's culture, but they went much further beyond that.

The Book of Mormon musical also mocks the Savior in the most obscene, irreverent, and degrading way. I feel ashamed and regretful for having watched it let alone inviting 3 friends along with me.  Matt and Trey, the creators, were really trying to make the musical not just sarcastically funny, but uncomfortable for anyone who places the Savior even on the lowest of pedestals. 

I like to consider myself having an open mind, but the mockery of the Savior was too much for me and left me with a sick feeling in my stomach.  I would dissuade anyone from seeing it, especially those who have a relationship with Christ. 

Thank you for sharing that. I have always felt uncomfortable with that show but for the more obvious reasons. I think they do some (emphasis on some) funny things some (emphasis again) times. I even think the Joseph Smith song in South Park is moderately funny. ("Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb"). But The Book of Mormon musical just feels wrong somehow. Now I have a good argument against it. Thanks.

(I haven't seen much South Park because it's too crude. But I've seen a bit here and there, and purposefully watched the Joseph Smith one.)

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I'm learning some of your real names here as you subscribe to me on youtube! Haha!

Well...maybe. I guess people don't have to use their real names on youtube. Plus I have no idea who's actually who.

I'm Charles, btw, for any of you who don't know. You all would know now since I shared my channel. But...I've often wondered if I shouldn't have just used my real name when I joined the forum. I've always tried to be representative of myself and don't particularly like some of the things anonymity brings with it in the interweb world.

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10 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I think they do some (emphasis on some) funny things some (emphasis again) times. 

This episode I thought was funny where all the good, faithful followers of other religions are confused why they went to Hell. Hell's spokesperson taps the mic and explains "Umm, yes, the Mormons were the correct answer."

mormons.jpg.04a04904cb243911bc2b15d01e74fcca.jpg

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Just now, clbent04 said:

This episode I thought was funny where all the good, faithful followers of other religions are confused why they went to Hell. Hell's spokesperson taps the mic and explains "Umm, yes, the Mormons were the correct answer."

mormons.jpg.04a04904cb243911bc2b15d01e74fcca.jpg

Yeah, I've seen that part before. It was, indeed, funny.

Sure...it's making fun... counting on the fact that people are going to find the idea so ridiculous that it's funny... but in proper "Mormon" fashion, the "Mormons" just smile and say, "Darned straight!"

I also love how the church took out a full page advertisement in The Book of Mormon musical's program:

suge3qe646401.jpg

So much grace and diplomacy. Honestly a proud moment there.

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26 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I'm learning some of your real names here as you subscribe to me on youtube! Haha!

Well...maybe. I guess people don't have to use their real names on youtube. Plus I have no idea who's actually who.

I'm Charles, btw, for any of you who don't know. You all would know now since I shared my channel. But...I've often wondered if I shouldn't have just used my real name when I joined the forum. I've always tried to be representative of myself and don't particularly like some of the things anonymity brings with it in the interweb world.

Oh shoot!  Unsubscribe, change my name, burn my fingerprints off...... ;) 

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2 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Been checking the channel out. Stealthman and All My Life were the first 2 I listened to. You got talent, TFP! Good singing voice and well composed songs. Honestly, a lot of high-quality content. Some of those renditions you have are already in the thousands of views. At least we can say we knew you before you became famous. Thanks for sharing.

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4 hours ago, clbent04 said:

Been checking the channel out. Stealthman and All My Life were the first 2 I listened to. You got talent, TFP! Good singing voice and well composed songs. Honestly, a lot of high-quality content. Some of those renditions you have are already in the thousands of views. At least we can say we knew you before you became famous. Thanks for sharing.

To be fair the ones with that many views are Metallica songs I added orchestra to. 

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30 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Thoughts on My Fair Lady? 

My Fair Lady is a top tier movie musical. It's only real flaw is the boring On The Street Wear You Live song. Which is a fine song, I suppose...but a great example of bringing the story to a dead halt for a song. Otherwise I very much like My Fair Lady.

And Marni Nixon is incredible in everything she does.

Edited by The Folk Prophet

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1 minute ago, The Folk Prophet said:

My Fair Lady is a top tier movie musical. It's only real flaw is the boring On The Street Wear You Live song. Which is a fine song, I suppose...but a great example of bringing the story to a dead halt for a song. Otherwise I very much like My Fair Lady.

My thoughts almost verbatim. 

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Speaking of Marni Nixon, The King and I. Another fine movie musical...that's somewhat flawed...but quite good.

Maybe they should have gotten Marni Nixon to dub over Russel Crowe for Les Miz.

Edited by The Folk Prophet

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7 hours ago, dprh said:

One of my favorites is less popular, Thoroughly Modern Millie. Julie Andrews, Mary Tyler Moore, Carol Channing.... Even Pat Morita.

Holy cow. How did I forget about that one?! One of my wife's most favorites. Silly. But fun.

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14 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Holy cow. How did I forget about that one?! One of my wife's most favorites. Silly. But fun.

Okay, one more. Your thoughts on the Rocky musical? When I first heard about it, I thought it was a little silly. I can't imagine Rocky Balboa the character singing. But, to be fair, it has some decent songs. 

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