Musicals


The Folk Prophet
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6 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

 

I don't relate to or understand the Javert suicide

SPOILERS!!!! :D 

On another note, how is it no one has mentioned Greatest Showman yet?  I gotta admit I like the music.  The story was fairly compelling as well.  I'm a big fan of stories where the spouse doesn't "follow their heart" and go with adultery.

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10 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Problems with Les Miz:

I just watched the 25th anniversary special.

I don't relate to or understand the Javert suicide or his obsession with Jean Valjean. I don't relate to or understand the revolution and why it was worth dying for. I don't understand Jean Valjean's interaction with Fantine and adopting her daughter out of nowhere because she was an employee. I don't understand or relate to Jean Valjean's over the top melodramatic concern for a kid he doesn't even know. And the whole Thenardier presenting the ring as some sort of a-ha twist moment is a weak-sauce plot device, and the pay off is...what, exactly?

Les Miz sells itself on "passion" but most of the passion is stupid and unrealistic and not how people actually behave or react with or toward others.

Maybe the book and the details therein explain things better and it doesn't come across as silly. To be fair the musical hides the silliness pretty well because it does such a good job of selling the passion with the music and performances. But for being known and understood as a less silly musical that deals with serious drama and meaning...it's kind of silly. Not all of it, of course.

You're much better off reading the book. If you find Victor Hugo's French off-putting, there are any number of serviceable translations.

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3 minutes ago, Vort said:

You're much better off reading the book. If you find Victor Hugo's French off-putting, there are any number of serviceable translations.

I was just reading the plot summary on Wikipedia, and even with just the summary, apparently the book does (as suspected) address some of these issues much more convincingly.

Who has time to read though? Maybe an audio version of the book. :D

Edited by The Folk Prophet
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15 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Has anyone seen the In The Heights movie? It showed up available on VUDU. Worth a rent? Purchase? None of the above?

The film has *serious* issues with pacing, such that it's very easy to nod off or zone out during quiet - and often critical - sequences. 

I'd actually recommending stopping the movie every half hour or so to get up and stretch. 

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I’ve been giving some thought to the jukebox musical. I mentioned before that I tend to not like them. I once saw an “honest movie poster” of sorts for Rock of Ages that retooled it Karaoke: the Musical! and I think that sums up my issues with them. If I want to listen to Billy Joel’s music I’m not rushing to hear someone else cover it theatrically. I would prefer to listen to the covers performed at his Kennedy Center award show before going to Moving Out.

My exceptions seem to have two general forms: the originals were already theatrical, or the treatment is so transformative of the originals that I don’t care about the loose (or stupid) plot.

in the first category I have Singing in the Rain. Only one song was original but I’m not familiar with any of the earlier performances. And my understanding is that these were already written for Vaudevillian style films. Similarly I enjoy some Gershwin. The particular play that introduced me to his work was Crazy For You, which was written after George and Ira’s death. It’s not the only one written posthumously either. For these the story still has to carry it (there’s some stupid treatments of Gershwin numbers) but the music isn’t as shoehorned because it was originally written to capture tropes. Additionally, it’s not some theater major performing BB King’s blues theatrically*; it’s theatric jazz written for the stage performed on the stage.

For the other category I mentioned that I enjoyed Across the Universe (don’t watch it just because I enjoyed it. There is nudity that should have been omitted). Julie Taymor lined up visuals to really make the songs something else. I Want You is sung by Uncle Sam while drafting young men (check out the clip on YouTube). Strawberry Fields works for me because she doesn’t have the character explain an analogy of soldiers bleeding out like crushed strawberries. She takes advantage of film and creates a visual metaphor. I respect that.

I’ll probably never watch Moulin Rouge again (I’m not a fan of burlesque, Baz Luhrmann uses clownery too much (there’s a technical term for it but it escapes me at the moment), and the whole story is the Bohemian style of love that’s stupid (I could probably grant some leeway on the last one because that’s how the majority of entertainment media presents love, but it already had other things working against it)) but I thought it was clever with some of their arrangements. El Tango de Roxanne has way more passion than the original and the music better matches the pathetic lyrics. The play does a smooth transition of Rolling Stones songs in Sympathy for the Duke (normally not a big deal, but it gets messed up so often) and Backstage Romance has an arrangement that uses a Gaga song for a mashup that’s a bop.

Yes, I give you permission to rag on me for my taste.

* just to clarify: listen to this and tell me what’s changed for the better. The arrangement is nearly identical, the voice is your standard Broadway voice (that’s not saying it’s bad, it’s just not bringing anything new), and at the end of the day it’s karaoke built around a single songwriter.

 

Edited by mordorbund
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OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOKLAHOMA!

Finished watching it. Here's my commentary, for what it's worth.

Dang, the show has NO bad music. Every song it good. The music is written really well.

Additionally, the plot actually makes sense and resolves itself and all that. Yes, it's a simple plot. Bad guy is jealous and does bad things. Gets defeated. Not a ton more to it than that, but it works.

Where does it fall down? 2 ways. Well, sort of 1. But 2. I say sort of 1 because it's all about the dancing. But... the first way is that there's too many dance breaks in the songs. In Kansas City the dance break works (Who would have thought a tap dance number in a "western" could work so well?). In Many a New Day the dancing just goes on a bit too long. By The Farmer and the Cowman it's like...enough already! This is a minor complaint. Just, ideally, the dance interludes in Many a New Day and Farmer would be shortened.

Second...the danged stinking boring and useless dream ballet!! Seriously. Terrible. Take it out. Entirely! Remove that entire thing from the show and what do you have? The exact same story, nothing weakened, but without the *snore.... I'm so bored...* ending of the first Act. Just kill it entirely. Why it wasn't cut is beyond me. Honestly they probably should have ended it with a version of the song Oklahoma and then reprised it in the second Act. But who am I to second guess Rodgers and Hammerstein? :)

Now, granted, I'm not a big fan of ballet. But in this case...what's the point? The message of the ballet is this... Jud's a scary guy that Laurey is scared of and she really loves Curly. Really? We didn't already know that?

But overall this is a great show and very entertaining. Would that it were the worst of Rodgers and Hammerstein. As it is, I'm thinking top 3.

Edited by The Folk Prophet
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6 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

I’ll probably never watch Moulin Rouge again (I’m not a fan of burlesque, Baz Luhrmann uses clownery too much (there’s a technical term for it but it escapes me at the moment), and the whole story is the Bohemian style of love that’s stupid (I could probably grant some leeway on the last one because that’s how the majority of entertainment media presents love, but it already had other things working against it)) but I thought it was clever with some of their arrangements. El Tango de Roxanne has way more passion than the original and the music better matches the pathetic lyrics. The play does a smooth transition of Rolling Stones songs in Sympathy for the Duke (normally not a big deal, but it gets messed up so often) and Backstage Romance has an arrangement that uses a Gaga song for a mashup that’s a bop.

This moment is the only cool thing in Moulin Rouge. If Obiwan only had a bit more vibrato in his singing it would be even cooler.

 

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1 hour ago, LDSGator said:

@The Folk Prophet-Thoughts on Little Shop of Horrors? An all time favorite of mine. If I could sing (I can’t) I’d love to play the Dentist! 

So I'm familiar with some of the music but I haven't ever seen it. On your recommendation I'll look into doing so. 

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15 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

So I'm familiar with some of the music but I haven't ever seen it. On your recommendation I'll look into doing so. 

It's my understanding that the original, non-musical film is in the public domain. 

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On 9/5/2021 at 9:03 PM, LDSGator said:

@The Folk Prophet-Thoughts on Little Shop of Horrors? An all time favorite of mine. If I could sing (I can’t) I’d love to play the Dentist! 

The brainchild of Alan Menken and Howard Ashman — the same duo that brought us The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, and half of Aladdin. They should have kept the play ending for the movie. The devil always wins when you make a Faustian bargain.

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On 8/31/2021 at 12:57 PM, Vort said:

A very brief musical history lesson: (.......something about Mozart.......)

So I specifically searched for the term "Mozart" to find this post, and you edited it (clearly to be more concise) and removed that side comment, but since I remember you saying you thought Mozart was the top in your view. though even before you removed it I wasn't entirely sure if you meant the top classical or the top period.

Anyhow, I watched Amadeus again last night and had some Mozart thoughts that were new so I hunted down your now removed comment to comment upon. :)

The first new thought: I noted that I didn't care for a lot of the Mozart music. I don't know for sure, but generally speaking, the music gets better and better through the movie, which I think (like I said, I'm not sure) corresponds to Mozart earlier works vs later works. Now I am not familiar with all Mozart. Even being a music major and having studied music, he was just too prolific, so unless one studies Mozart specifically in detail...or is some sort of really crazed fan, no one is. That is to say, he produced over 600 works. Ouch. But my sense is that his later works are what I really love. Some of his earlier works...not so much. (Thought maybe the earlier/later thing is irrelevant.)

So the thought was this...maybe Mozart wasn't as genius as I used to think...he just wrote so much, and had enough genius that some of it rose to the top. Without checking out all 600 of his works I can't say for sure, but I can say that I just don't care for some of his pieces in the movie Amadeus. Alternatively, some of the music is just gold.

The other thought I had: Mozart died at the ripe ol' age of 35. And had produced that gold by then. And when I say gold, I mean GOLD.

You'd said, as I mentioned, that you viewed Mozart as the best in your view (or something like that), and there is no question anywhere, that I'm aware of, that he was the best classical period composer. But the best of all genres, baroque, classical, romantic, 20th Century...well there's going to be some debate there. Though I'd guess that in most debates Mozart would still rise, easily, to the top 3 or 4, and a great many would place him in the number 1 spot (as I would -- I mean you've got Bach, Mozart and Beethoven clearly up there, probably Wagner and Stravinsky... I mean there's your top 5, right? Some debate...but yeah....I think so*).

Considering that, his early death, and 1 other point is of interest to me. Mozart died in 1791. Had he lived to (for math's sake) 100 he would have died in 1856. That crosses right into Beethoven territory. Beethoven's 1st was in 1800 --- only 9 years after Mozart died!

So....what if? Double Mozart's musical maturity...he dies at 70 or 80, having written 1200 works instead of the scant 600. He competes directly against Beethoven as well.

What might he have written? I think it safe to say these things would have influenced him greatly. I think he would have likely moved into the Romantic style. It was what became popular. And I expect he would have felt competitive with Beethoven.

Anyhow, just some interesting thoughts I had. Not actually commentary on your now removed comment...just commentary that sprang from having watched Amadeus and then recalling you'd said something.

*These would be my "top" based on knowledge, not taste. Taste-wise I'd take Bach and Wagner out and probably put in....um....John Williams? :D:D

This list is interesting. Puts Stravinsky at #1. Has Stephen Sondheim at #43 though...and the fact that it has John Cage on the list at all.... To be fair, it was only 174 composers who where surveyed, which means it really likely only took one idiot mentioning anyone and they make the list.

Edited by The Folk Prophet
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On 9/1/2021 at 6:34 PM, dprh said:

On another note, how is it no one has mentioned Greatest Showman yet?  I gotta admit I like the music.  The story was fairly compelling as well.  I'm a big fan of stories where the spouse doesn't "follow their heart" and go with adultery.

The choice against adultery was refreshing and the biggest positive in the story. As a musical though, I'm not a fan.

That link's not going to link correctly so I'll quote it here.

Quote

I recently saw this too and had a similar problem with the opera singer performing a pop number with a pop voice. I don't know that the pop just didn't jive with the period or the setting. I think leads just didn't draw us in. Barnum embraces his low-brow show and customers (as shown in through his treatment of critics), except when he doesn't (as shown with his moving up in housing, leaving his show for the high-brow opera performer, ditching his workers at high-brow parties). After a montage showing how he's distancing himself from his "freak" workers, they come together to support him in the finale - but nothing has been done to resolve the slight! As I'm writing this, I guess the character of Barnum doesn't show any growth, which can be okay as long as his character is intended to be the compass for the others (usually moral, but in this case entrepreneurial), and we see very little of that except when building the show.

Musically, the songs seemed to blend together, but that might be more a reflection on me than the music. As an old man, I am compelled to complain that the opening number is a little lost on me since I could not hear Jackman's part because the chorus was disproportionately loud. And I'm not a fan of listening to people singing in a can. Pandora keeps trying to tell me I would like Glee songs, and I keep telling her that I don't listen to musical autocorrect (Pandora also thinks I'm gay, so take that for what you will). On the plus side, it sounds like they stayed in Jackman's range.

Hiring the cast for the show should have been a musical montage. I was thinking that this practice may be considered old-fashioned since Frozen has this same failure when introducing visitors to the kingdom, but the musical montage is used in Showman to age the leads and show their romance. So there's no reason it couldn't have been employed. "This is Me" is a defiant anthem that would have better fit the "freaks" confronting the locals. It can still be used as a triumphant, but it properly ought to be a reprise in contrast.

A few dance numbers drew the eye, but the circus dance (particularly with "This is Me") is too physically tight. The greatest show should be larger than life and expansive. The dance should reflect this, similar to the panoramic shot of the museum that kept showing one more thing just around the corner. Again, if this song and dance is part of a defiant anthem, then it makes sense to have them step so close together (reflecting a brawling atmosphere), but as a triumph it makes the circus seem small.

 

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40 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

As a musical though, I'm not a fan.

I agree. It wasn't terrible. But nothing super inspiring. I've only seen it once. I felt the This is Me song was a bit too on the nose progressive-leftist-gay-trans-whatever in intent. In a different culture maybe it wouldn't have come across that way. But....

There were a few musical moments and scenes I liked. I didn't hate the movie. But didn't love it. That's about all I can say, really.

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Andrew Lloyd's Webbers musical Cinderella, apparently, has the soundtrack available on Youtube (I assume elsewhere too).

Act I:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqtDYZpzYwR_vIQlpo-ZcIsxLy5F0mCWw

Act II:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqtDYZpzYwR9fAEzoYmG-7OfzOehd0_eu

I'm not hopeful this musical will be one I love, but the prospect of a new musical from Andrew Lloyd Webber to check out is exciting. Listening......now.

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Well good golly if I didn't enjoy that a lot!

I have some critiques. And it's not like...super high art...but...

Okay...here's my detailed review.

Music-wise it's up there pretty high for Andrew Lloyd Webber. I don't know that I'd put any one song in his top 10. But there were several solid good songs. And that's not typically typical. In fact, Phantom is unique in that regard, in that it has several great songs. But Cinderalla did too, darn it all.

In fact, I'd handily and readily put this in his top 5. Out of 20, that's not bad.

Now for the critiques: Well, for one, I dislike rock songs in musicals. I don't mind back beats entirely. They can work. But just straight up rock orchestrations....no. (One of my reasons for not loving The Greatest Showman, I'm sure.) Now, to be fair, I happen to know that some of the songs there were studio recordings and I don't know for sure if the orchestrations match. I suspect they do. But I don't know for sure. But, for example, the song Bad Cinderella would have been better with more of an orchestra-y orchestration instead of the rock one, in my opinion. It could have had some elements of that...sure. But...well...there it is.

Secondly, the song The Vanquishing of the Three Headed Sea Witch was terrible. I mean talk about killing the show. It should have been a short snippet, nothing more. Even better, do a flash back in the start of the show where the prince sings a short snippet about going off to fight the sea witch, and then reprise it here. Keep them both short and recitative in style instead of the mind-numbingly long straight up rock and or roll style song -- which was.....okay. I mean it sounded like a Tenacious D song (meaning a parody of DIO or something...). I dunno. It'll probably be @LDSGator's favorite song in the show. Sung by Adam Lambert for the recording (though played by another in the show, apparently). But whether one likes the song or not...plot wise it killed the momentum badly. There were a few other songs that did that a bit too...but not too badly. Forgivably. Not that one though.

Putting that aside, the ending was...quick. And simple. But it worked. I found myself satisfied. Very much so. So that works.

Finally...and here's the kicker for me... I found myself emotional a few times in the show. It was moving in parts. That's a good, good thing in my book. I felt for the characters. It worked. Simple. But it worked.

Now I do place it high for an Andrew Lloyd Webber musical, relatively. But that doesn't mean I place it that high overall. It's mediocre. It's fun. It works pretty well. I'll take it. But, I dunno. 3 out of 5 stars. Maybe.

Edited by The Folk Prophet
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3 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Lol! I think musicals might be our only common ground when it comes to music! Lol. 

I think you'd be surprised.

Don't get me wrong. The problem with rock in musicals to me is like pineapple on pizza. It just doesn't belong. Give me rock when I want rock. Give me musicals when I want musicals.

That being said, it can work. I secretly really like Jesus Christ Superstar. I dislike the concept. I very much like the music.

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