BYU & Equality Act

[mikbone]

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2021/06/01/a-proclamation-on-lesbian-gay-bisexual-transgender-and-queer-pride-month-2021/

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equality_Act_(United_States)

 

I can’t imagine this legislation not getting passed.

I assume that it will impact our schools and church.

I bet the facial hair rules @ BYU are seeing their last days.

[Fether]

10 minutes ago, mikbone said:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2021/06/01/a-proclamation-on-lesbian-gay-bisexual-transgender-and-queer-pride-month-2021/

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equality_Act_(United_States)

 

I can’t imagine this legislation not getting passed.

I assume that it will impact our schools and church.

I bet the facial hair rules @ BYU are seeing their last days.

What exactly would this do to our church and school?

[mikbone]

Dunno, im a doc not a lawyer.

But it looks like any sexual orientation or gender identity will be free game.

Where do you draw the line?  There are so many sexual orientations and gender identities right now and they seem to be growing at an alarming rate.

We can all agree that pedophilia, necrophilia, and polygamy are wrong or can we?

[CV75]

2 hours ago, mikbone said:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2021/06/01/a-proclamation-on-lesbian-gay-bisexual-transgender-and-queer-pride-month-2021/

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equality_Act_(United_States)

 

I can’t imagine this legislation not getting passed.

I assume that it will impact our schools and church.

I bet the facial hair rules @ BYU are seeing their last days.

If it does, BYU will stand alone and succeed as Elder Holland's talk encourages, only if the faculty, staff and student body need to do their part.

[Fether]

2 hours ago, mikbone said:

We can all agree that pedophilia, necrophilia, and polygamy are wrong or can we?

We can. Maybe not polygamy, but everyone agrees the other two are wrong

[Fether]

3 hours ago, mikbone said:

Dunno, im a doc not a lawyer.

But it looks like any sexual orientation or gender identity will be free game.

I’m pretty sure the only thing that will happen is BYU will not longer have access to federal funding.

[Vort]

18 minutes ago, Fether said:

We can. Maybe not polygamy, but everyone agrees the other two are wrong

I guarantee you that not everyone agrees that such things are wrong.

[Fether]

12 minutes ago, Vort said:

I guarantee you that not everyone agrees that such things are wrong.

True.

other things that not everyone agrees on:

- murder is wrong

- rape is wrong

- Heroin is bad

- the Holocaust was bad

 

but if we are qualifying “everyone” as in all political leanings and movements with a reasonable following, then yes, we all agree pedophilia and necrophilia is bad. The LGBTQ movement does not support pedophilia and necrophilia.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Fether

[LDSGator]

17 minutes ago, Fether said:

True.

other things that not everyone agrees on:

- murder is wrong

- rape is wrong

- Heroin is bad

- the Holocaust was bad

 

but if we are qualifying “everyone” as in all political leanings and movements with a reasonable following, then yes, we all agree pedophilia and necrophilia is bad. The LGBTQ movement does not support pedophilia and necrophilia.

Exactly. If a political candidate tried talking about legalizing pedophilia or necrophilia, even in the most liberal districts, they’d lose in a landslide. You can ask Judge Roy Moore.  
 

I am confident that even in the most rural, conservative districts, a candidate who denied the holocaust would get crushed too. 

Edited August 29, 2021 by LDSGator

[mikbone]

38 minutes ago, Fether said:

The LGBTQ movement does not support pedophilia and necrophilia

Im not familiar with everyone involved in the LGBTQ+ movement.  They do seem to have lots of variation and a desire to be inclusive of every outlier though. 

Has anyone ever seen politicians pass an overarching law that is advertised to do one wonderful thing yet actually does something else?

On of my concerns about the whole LGBTQ+ movement is its dynamic fluidity.  

Edited August 29, 2021 by mikbone

[Fether]

1 hour ago, mikbone said:

Im not familiar with everyone involved in the LGBTQ+ movement.  They do seem to have lots of variation and a desire to be inclusive of every outlier though. 

You would be extremely hard pressed to find someone that accepts pedophilia:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/5462805002

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN2352J8
 

https://www.lgbt.foundation/pedosexual

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.advocate.com/news/2020/7/30/lgbtq-leaders-denounce-images-proclaiming-association-pedophiles%3famp

[mikbone]

19 minutes ago, Fether said:

You would be extremely hard pressed to find someone that accepts pedophilia:

orly?

https://cacjc.org/the-shocking-facts-about-child-pornography/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Man/Boy_Love_Association

 

From wikipedia - Incest

“Incest between an adult and a person under the age of consent is considered a form of child sexual abuse^[71][72] that has been shown to be one of the most extreme forms of childhood abuse; it often results in serious and long-term psychological trauma, especially in the case of parental incest.^[73]Its prevalence is difficult to generalize, but research has estimated 10–15% of the general population as having at least one such sexual contact, with less than 2% involving intercourse or attempted intercourse.^[74] Among women, research has yielded estimates as high as 20%.^[73]”

Edited August 29, 2021 by mikbone

[Just_A_Guy]

21 minutes ago, Fether said:

You would be extremely hard pressed to find someone that accepts pedophilia:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/5462805002

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN2352J8
 

https://www.lgbt.foundation/pedosexual

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.advocate.com/news/2020/7/30/lgbtq-leaders-denounce-images-proclaiming-association-pedophiles%3famp

In my experience, it’s not that they consciously support it; it’s that in justifying themselves they’ve undermined the ethical system that more broadly leads society to resist the darker impulses (especially those that are sexual in nature) that are constantly trying to drag humanity back into the animal kingdom.  In the aftermath of the sexual revolution, the victory of the doctrine of consent uber allies, and the marginalization of the Abrahamic moral code and religions rooted thereon; the ethical case against pedophilia is based primarily on inertia and (in the case of pedophilia) on canons about childhood developmental psychology that could be (and in some societies, have been) knocked over relatively easily once the right political pressure is applied to the right people.

To borrow a modern metaphor:  It’s not that LGBTQ guys are the Taliban.  It’s that they’re the American government that saw an Afghani army that had been trained to rely on close air support, and then suddenly deprived the Afghani army of direct air support while also choking off the resources they needed to fly and maintain their own aircraft.  No, the American government is not the Taliban; but they’re still pretty flippin’ dumb.  And in a similar vein:  No, most LGBTQ advocates aren’t pedophiles; but they’re still useful idiots.  

Edited August 29, 2021 by Just_A_Guy

[Fether]

9 minutes ago, mikbone said:

orly?

https://cacjc.org/the-shocking-facts-about-child-pornography/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Man/Boy_Love_Association

 

From wikipedia:

“Incest between an adult and a person under the age of consent is considered a form of child sexual abuse^[71][72] that has been shown to be one of the most extreme forms of childhood abuse; it often results in serious and long-term psychological trauma, especially in the case of parental incest.^[73]Its prevalence is difficult to generalize, but research has estimated 10–15% of the general population as having at least one such sexual contact, with less than 2% involving intercourse or attempted intercourse.^[74] Among women, research has yielded estimates as high as 20%.^[73]”

You are expanding the general consciences of the group. I’m sure there are Latter-day Saints that support child pornography, but I would never say “latter day Saints support child pornography.

[Fether]

4 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

In my experience, it’s not that they consciously support it; it’s that in justifying themselves they’ve undermined the ethical system that more broadly leads society to resist the darker impulses (especially those that are sexual in nature) that are constantly trying to drag humanity back into the animal kingdom.  In the aftermath of the sexual revolution and the victory of the doctrine of consent uber allies, the ethical case against pedophilia is based primarily on inertia and (in the case of pedophilia) on canons about childhood developmental psychology that could be (and in some societies, have been) knocked over relatively easily once the right political pressure is applied to the right people.  

I can get behind this. But as of now, there is no wide spread or common support if it. Ask any member of the LGBTQ and they would reject the idea of pedophilia just as quickly as a Latter-day Saint

[mikbone]

1 minute ago, Fether said:

You are expanding the general consciences of the group. I’m sure there are Latter-day Saints that support child pornography, but I would never say “latter day Saints support child pornography.

Neither would I.

I do believe that the LGBTQ+ movement as well as the Equality act are tools that the Lord’s enemies will use to exploit the innocent and make sin of all sorts more acceptable to all.

[Just_A_Guy]

1 minute ago, Fether said:

I can get behind this. But as of now, there is no wide spread or common support if it. Ask any member of the LGBTQ and they would reject the idea of pedophilia just as quickly as a Latter-day Saint

The P-word will never be supported on its own terms; just as “sodomy” or “perversion” never were.  It will be couched in terms of love and sexual autonomy and liberation.  They’ll start out with the most innocuous cases—the seventeen-year-old boy who fell in love with and married his 22-year-old teacher, the sixteen-year-old from an abusive home who was noticed by a middle-aged school janitor who treated her with a kindness and respect she’d never known before and taught her to finally trust men . . . and on and on it will go. 

[Fether]

2 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

The P-word will never be supported on its own terms; just as “sodomy” or “perversion” never were.  It will be couched in terms of love and sexual autonomy and liberation.  They’ll start out with the most innocuous cases—the seventeen-year-old boy who fell in love with and married his 22-year-old teacher, the sixteen-year-old from an abusive home who was noticed by a middle-aged school janitor who treated her with a kindness and respect she’d never known before and taught her to finally trust men . . . and on and on it will go. 

5 minutes ago, mikbone said:

Neither would I.

I do believe that the LGBTQ+ movement as well as the Equality act are tools that the Lord’s enemies will use to exploit the innocent and make sin of all sorts more acceptable to all.

I can get behind both of these. But let’s not extend this potential future to the present. As of now, we aren’t there, so let’s not accuse organizations or patterns of belief that aren’t accurate. 
 

Let’s be honest with the issue and attack it, not this pseudo boogeyman we think is coming.

[Just_A_Guy]

2 hours ago, Fether said:

I can get behind both of these. But let’s not extend this potential future to the present. As of now, we aren’t there, so let’s not accuse organizations or patterns of belief that aren’t accurate. 
 

Let’s be honest with the issue and attack it, not this pseudo boogeyman we think is coming.

Fether, I’d agree with this more if progressivism were a static movement that could see the ramifications of its own presumptions and come out with a robust theoretical explanation as to why progressivism should go “thus far, and no further”.

But it hasn’t.  I don’t think it can, because it has largely thrown out the religiously-rooted theoretical/philosophical foundations of western morality without really having anything sustainable and near-universally appealing that is capable of filling that foundational void.  The inevitable result of such tactics is collapse; and I think it entirely appropriate to point out what they’re doing even if they’re too short-sighted or too wrapped up on their own lust to figure it out themselves.

Incidentally,  you may recall that one of the prevailing arguments in favor of homosexuality was “well, there’s even homosexuality in the animal kingdom”.  But it may interest you to know that there is also coercive copulation in the animal kingdom; there is sexual exploitation of juveniles in the animal kingdom; and—yes—there is even necrophilia in the animal kingdom.  

Edited August 30, 2021 by Just_A_Guy

[NeuroTypical]

Something to keep in mind, the "alphabet community" is hardly a homogenous group that all thinks the same.   In fact, in some of the louder angrier (younger) activist circles, there is open warfare, with no small amount of violence, even some death, between some of the letters.

The LG end of things, and the T end of things, are at odds.  They're sort of forced to be at odds, due to the way they've defined words.   (The following is how they see things.  There are more than a few differences in how I see things.)

Lesbians and gays talk about how they've fought and struggled for decades to be accepted as just plain old preferring the same sex.  It's not a choice.  If you disagree, you're homophobic.

The trans people are all about gender being a social construct, and biological sex shouldn't matter, and if you disagree, you're transphobic.

LG folks talk about how important L only spaces or G only spaces are.  They're horrified at the prospect of a group of lesbians, many of whom have escaped from rape or whatnot, being 'invaded' by trans-women, often without 'bottom surgery', demanding to be included in those women-only spaces.  In other words, biological males want to hang with the lesbians and be treated like them, and often want to be part of the dating pool.  Lesbians get pressured to be inclusive.

There's also a 'healthy' debate about the role of consent in telling someone one's biological sex and associated parts, before hooking up.  This is where some of the violence and killing has come from - a trans person representing themselves as the other gender, and a surprise in the bedroom leads to violence.  Again, the LG are horrified at the open 'homophobia', the T are resentful and angry at the 'transphobia'. 

From what I can tell, those who would advocate for accessing children are still in the minority of all the letters of the alphabet.  Perhaps slightly less so for the T end of things.  I mean, they're all down with teaching this stuff from an early age, but most of 'em over 18 are as against taking an under 18 partner, as you or I.  Because they're kids, and that's wrong.

Edited August 30, 2021 by NeuroTypical

[Fether]

37 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Fether, I’d agree with this more if…

What do you think I am arguing for?

[mikbone]

19 minutes ago, Fether said:

What do you think I am arguing for?

 

[Just_A_Guy]

23 minutes ago, Fether said:

What do you think I am arguing for?

Oh, I’ll admit I’m being highly pedantic; I think overall we agree more than we disagree.  At the moment I’m merely taking issue with your characterization of the parade-of-horribles as a “pseudo boogeyman we think is coming” [italics mine, and apologies if I misread your emphasis] and with your apparent belief that these horribles aren’t really related to the issue at hand.  My position is the issues are integrally connected, even if the LGBTQ folks can’t or won’t understand the way they are preparing the way for what’s most certainly coming.

Edited August 30, 2021 by Just_A_Guy

[Fether]

2 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Oh, I’ll agree I’m being highly pedantic.  At the moment I’m merely taking issue with your characterization of the parade-of-horribles as a “pseudo boogeyman we think is coming” [italics mine, and apologies if I misread your emphasis] and that you seem to think isn’t really related to the issue at hand.  My position is the issues are integrally connected, even if the LGBTQ folks can’t or won’t understand the way they are preparing the way for what’s most certainly coming.

My original comment was toward the OPs assumption that the LGBTQ are also pushing to normalize pedophilia and necrophilia. This is not the case. They are not for that.

I do, however, completely agree that it is paving the way to normalize it one day. I can get behind that.

Maybe you can help me with this then. Today, Is there anything gained on accusing the LGBTQ movement of supporting pedophilia when they currently do not?

[Vort]

4 hours ago, Fether said:

You would be extremely hard pressed to find someone that accepts pedophilia:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/5462805002

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN2352J8
 

https://www.lgbt.foundation/pedosexual

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.advocate.com/news/2020/7/30/lgbtq-leaders-denounce-images-proclaiming-association-pedophiles%3famp

Shameless hypocrites. Of course pedophilia is a sexual orientation, just a much so as homosexuality. That they so openly reject it makes them openly guilty of doing exactly what they decry in others.

Edited August 30, 2021 by Vort