Media parading unfortunate Covid victims - who could have been treated!


clwnuke
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https://www.deseret.com/2021/8/30/22648358/byutv-byu-sports-nation-host-spencer-linton-shares-experience-with-severe-covid-19

Today I read yet another of what has recently seemed to be an endless series of Covid-19 victim stories in the Deseret News. What frustrates me about each of these stories is that nowhere is it mentioned that the unfortunate patients could have easily been treated with Ivermectin, which carries a risk profile roughly on the order of a doctor telling you to take two ibuprofen and call them in the morning. Most Covid-19 patients are told by their doctors to go home and head to a hospital if things get worse. Why not at least offer some possible low-risk help in the interim?  I can't guarantee it will work, but who wouldn't take some aspirin each day if it might help?

Even if you are a doctor that doesn't believe it works, isn't it enough that critical care doctors at hospitals all over the United States use it to treat Covid patients every single day, and they swear by it?  ( FLCCC Alliance )  If there is little to no risk, and your patient is suffering, doesn't your Hippocratic Oath at least motivate you to try something that other doctors use to successfully treat their patients? What's the worst that can happen? Maybe it doesn't work, but by day 15 shouldn't you have tried it?

Patients all over the country have sued their hospitals to get access, and have won the right to take Ivermectin. Then they get better, and post their stories in videos that are censored as "misinformation". But even more frustrating is that the hospitals rarely acknowledge they were wrong, turn a blind eye to the patients getting better, and keep denying patients the right to be treated with this simple and safe medicine.

To me, this dereliction of medical duty almost borders on abuse! You don't have to believe that something works in order to try it, especially when you have no other options to offer your patients and the health risk is near zero.

Sometimes I have to remember that the medical establishment ridiculed Australian doctors J. Robin Warren and Barry Marshall for decades before admitting that Helicobacter pylori was the bacterial cause of peptic ulcer disease and began prescribing antibiotics. Unfortunately, IMHO the media is needlessly helping to inflict suffering upon Covid-19 patients by actively censoring the patient successes of Ivermectin treatment. It's not hard to find successes - if the media would seek, they would find. Then they could present a more balanced view to the public.

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Edited by clwnuke
Better image quality, grammar
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I'm not a big proponent of the current vaccines for lots of reasons.  

I don’t have any reasons to recommend Ivermectin for this pandemic.  

Especially veterinarian grade ivermectin…

Y’all be careful out there.

 

This is a pretty good graph too

1019388593_NicolasCageandDrowning.png.1f18ca8bcd3d7d762571473a3f871add.png

 

An association in and of itself does not prove causation

 

Edited by mikbone
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1 hour ago, mikbone said:

An association in and of itself does not prove causation

 

Oh, absolutely agreed.

As for the safety profile of Ivermectin, you need only search the pre-2019 clinical studies such as https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043740/

"There are few drugs that can seriously lay claim to the title of ‘Wonder drug’, penicillin and aspirin being two that have perhaps had greatest beneficial impact on the health and wellbeing of Mankind. But ivermectin can also be considered alongside those worthy contenders, based on its versatility, safety and the beneficial impact that it has had, and continues to have, worldwide—especially on hundreds of millions of the world’s poorest people."

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21 minutes ago, clwnuke said:

Oh, absolutely agreed.

As for the safety profile of Ivermectin, you need only search the pre-2019 clinical studies such as https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043740/

"There are few drugs that can seriously lay claim to the title of ‘Wonder drug’, penicillin and aspirin being two that have perhaps had greatest beneficial impact on the health and wellbeing of Mankind. But ivermectin can also be considered alongside those worthy contenders, based on its versatility, safety and the beneficial impact that it has had, and continues to have, worldwide—especially on hundreds of millions of the world’s poorest people."

The horse paste crowd has had considerable overdoses, if the news is correct, with no reported serious or lasting injury.

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5 minutes ago, Grunt said:

The horse paste crowd has had considerable overdoses, if the news is correct, with no reported serious or lasting injury.

Unfortunately, pharmacists are often refusing to fill doctor's prescriptions for Ivermectin (which isn't their job). This has forced people to seek alternative access routes, which are certainly not optimal. My regular pharmacist continually delayed my prescription without valid reason so I eventually filed a grievance against him for discrimination and moved my prescription to another pharmacy. Inconvenient, but at least I am lucky enough to have access.

But, your point is well taken. Even the horse paste overdoses (which receive all the media attention) are rarely serious - though I don't recommend using that route.

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1 hour ago, clwnuke said:

Oh, absolutely agreed.

As for the safety profile of Ivermectin, you need only search the pre-2019 clinical studies such as https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043740/

"There are few drugs that can seriously lay claim to the title of ‘Wonder drug’, penicillin and aspirin being two that have perhaps had greatest beneficial impact on the health and wellbeing of Mankind. But ivermectin can also be considered alongside those worthy contenders, based on its versatility, safety and the beneficial impact that it has had, and continues to have, worldwide—especially on hundreds of millions of the world’s poorest people."

It is a wonder drug at treating parasitic diseases. The article you linked only discusses parasitic diseases.  And yes it has reduced the suffering of millions in third world countries as well as livestock around the world.

You do realize that 10% of the USA population reports that they have an allergy to Penicillin.  I have seen an anaphylactic reaction to PCN it aint pretty.

Also look up Reye’s syndrome.  Although it is rare, it is lethal and associated with Aspirin. 

“Aspirin has been linked with Reye's syndrome, so use caution when giving aspirin to children or teenagers for fever or pain. Though aspirin is approved for use in children older than age 3, children and teenagers recovering from chickenpox or flu-like symptoms should never take aspirin.”

 

Edited by mikbone
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4 hours ago, mikbone said:

7D853549-EC69-405B-9EB9-3C77C10E04CD.png

7D6FBF3C-0ED9-4DC3-A07E-661FA34143F4.thumb.png.f2ea596c97ac8d0825bd991617d13252.png

I'm not a big proponent of the current vaccines for lots of reasons.  

I don’t have any reasons to recommend Ivermectin for this pandemic.  

Especially veterinarian grade ivermectin…

Y’all be careful out there.

 

This is a pretty good graph too

1019388593_NicolasCageandDrowning.png.1f18ca8bcd3d7d762571473a3f871add.png

 

An association in and of itself does not prove causation

 

My thoughts on this whole Ivermectin mess and collecting items that I've read and heard about it thus far (aka...the rumor mill)...

The association many make is with India...

But from what I've heard, most who remark about how it helped are not commenting on WHY it helped with the surge in India and some places.

Apparently,  Covid is NOT the only disease in the world, and in fact is not the biggest disease or health problem in India.  Parasites ARE a big problem in some of the poorer populations in India.  The idea with Ivermectin was that it would kill the parasites in the patients body.  These parasites were thought to be weakening the bodies immune system and the body itself making it more susceptible to the complications with Covid-19.  By Killing the Parasite the hope was that it would also strengthen their own body's response to Covid-19.

I'm not sure what the result of that was, but from the responses I've heard of people misinterpreting the reasons for it's use in India, I'd imagine it was quite successful to a degree.  Whether that was successful because they were more able to fight off Covid because they no longer had parasites eating away and weakening the body also, or some other response I have no clue.

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8 hours ago, clwnuke said:

Unfortunately, pharmacists are often refusing to fill doctor's prescriptions for Ivermectin (which isn't their job). This has forced people to seek alternative access routes, which are certainly not optimal. My regular pharmacist continually delayed my prescription without valid reason so I eventually filed a grievance against him for discrimination and moved my prescription to another pharmacy. Inconvenient, but at least I am lucky enough to have access.

But, your point is well taken. Even the horse paste overdoses (which receive all the media attention) are rarely serious - though I don't recommend using that route.

I don't recommend that route either, BUT......

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Take some time to listen to the critical care physicians in the hospitals that use it as an essential treatment protocol. If all you have done is read the headlines from doctors and researchers who don't actually use it to treat patients, but who still confidently say it doesn't work, then you are missing essential information on the subject. Your news and your searches are being unjustly censored.

https://rightsfreedoms.wordpress.com/2021/04/23/one-dose-of-ivermectin-was-all-it-took-to-get-81-year-old-john-swanson-off-the-ventilator/

 

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1 hour ago, clwnuke said:

Take some time to listen to the critical care physicians in the hospitals that use it as an essential treatment protocol. If all you have done is read the headlines from doctors and researchers who don't actually use it to treat patients, but who still confidently say it doesn't work, then you are missing essential information on the subject. Your news and your searches are being unjustly censored.

  

Yup, that link above no workie.

I can find all kinds of articles reporting on how people are taking Ivermectin like it is a miracle drug.  How it is flying off the shelves in feed stores.  And how the poison control inquiries concerning Ivermectin are up over 500%

I listen to critical care physicians all day long.  I also have a degree in Nutrition and Medicine.  Took courses in pharmacology and biochemistry etc.

You do you man.

But if I was going to join a conspiracy group.  It would be the one recommending social distancing, eating a healthy diet, and maintaining physical fitness instead of relying upon masks and medicine.

Edited by mikbone
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8 minutes ago, mikbone said:

Yup, that link above no workie.

I can find all kinds of articles reporting on how people are taking Ivermectin like it is a miracle drug.  How it is flying off the shelves in feed stores.  And how the poison control inquiries concerning Ivermectin are up over 500%

I listen to critical care physicians all day long.  I also have a degree in Nutrition and Medicine.  Took courses in pharmacology and biochemistry etc.

You do you man.

But if I was going to join a conspiracy group.  It would be the one recommending social distancing, eating a healthy diet, and maintaining physical fitness instead of relying upon masks and medicine.

I guess you and I will have to disagree on this one. Time will tell, just as it did for H. Pylori and antibiotics.

Agree on fitness and healthy diet!

Curious though, have the critical care physicians you listen to tried Ivermectin in their protocols at any point or consulted with others who have?

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18 minutes ago, clwnuke said:

I guess you and I will have to disagree on this one. Time will tell, just as it did for H. Pylori and antibiotics.

Agree on fitness and healthy diet!

Curious though, have the critical care physicians you listen to tried Ivermectin in their protocols at any point or consulted with others who have?

The critical care docs that I know. Nope.  Interestingly though, there is another LDS physician in town I know that took it.

And my Mother-in-Law asked that I prescribe it for her immediate family.  I declined.

I wouldn’t hesitate to prescribe Ivermectin for filariasis though.  The lecture series on parasites in med school gave me nightmares.

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23 minutes ago, clwnuke said:

Have you ever prescribed medicine off-label? I would imagine so, but you simply haven't for this one. Is that a correct read?

Nope.  I’m not a drug pusher.  You wouldn’t believe how many patients I see that are taking over 10 medications daily.

I’m more of a carpenter type doctor.

And I forgot to add prayer, righteous living, and priesthood blessings to my conspiracy group’s beliefs.

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15 hours ago, clwnuke said:

What was your experience like? Did you have any problems or issues with taking it? Do you believe it helped?

my wife got really nauseated and stopped two days short of complete dosage (per the doctor.)  I had no ill effects.  Did it help, probably.  I had two really bad days with my back.  It felt like someone had been beating on my lower back and kidneys.  The other issue at the same time was climbing stairs from my basement.  I was completely out of breath and a very elevated heart rate.  By the time I as done with the dosage (7 days) that had ended.  Did it help?  Probably.  My wife's doctor told us she had been seeing great success prescribing it since about February.

Edited by mirkwood
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Glad you and family are ok @mirkwood.  

Daughter and I caught the family's first cold/flu thing in 18 months last week.  Our covid tests are negative, but now we have to endure looks whenever we go out in public and sniff or cough.

My work says they'll let me into the office with symptoms, because I have my negative test result.  She's home from school until she feels a bit better. 

I am SO looking forward to putting this thing into our collective rear view mirrors.

Edited by NeuroTypical
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13 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Glad you and family are ok @mirkwood.  

Daughter and I caught the family's first cold/flu thing in 18 months last week.  Our covid tests are negative, but now we have to endure looks whenever we go out in public and sniff or cough.

My work says they'll let me into the office with symptoms, because I have my negative test result.  She's home from school until she feels a bit better. 

Strep is one of the fun things going around our area in addition to COVID. Everyone gets nervous at work when someone comes back from their quarantine period and they are still hacking up a lung.

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We are all descended from the survivors of the Spanish Flu.  That thing morphed and evolved and whatnot into the various flu strains that we get yearly.   I'm guessing the same thing will happen to COVID - eventually all humans will be exposed to it and "get" it - either by getting it, or developing antibodies via vaccination.  

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5 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

We are all descended from the survivors of the Spanish Flu.  That thing morphed and evolved and whatnot into the various flu strains that we get yearly.   I'm guessing the same thing will happen to COVID - eventually all humans will be exposed to it and "get" it - either by getting it, or developing antibodies via vaccination.  

Agree 100%. 

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4 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

We are all descended from the survivors of the Spanish Flu.  That thing morphed and evolved and whatnot into the various flu strains that we get yearly.   I'm guessing the same thing will happen to COVID - eventually all humans will be exposed to it and "get" it - either by getting it, or developing antibodies via vaccination.  

It might be of some relief to do some research on the “Spanish Flu”

It actually started in Kansas.  And we now know that it was caused by our good friend the H1N1 influenza A virus.

 

The same thing will happen with COVID.  In 5-10 years we will have all the scientific data and studies to show how we screwed it up.

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3 hours ago, clwnuke said:

Have you ever prescribed medicine off-label? I would imagine so, but you simply haven't for this one. Is that a correct read?

There are two types of physicians: Surgeons and non-surgeons. Surgeons look askance at the drug-pushers and maintain that they offer actual cures, while the drug-pushers merely cover up symptoms for a while. The non-surgeons deplore the brutality of the caveman-trepanning butchers and extol their own enlightened virtues of improving people's lives with natural (derived) curative potions and poultices—you know, real medicine.

mikbone is a butcher. Don't look for him to give favorable opinions on the milquetoast drug pushers. He will tell you that you need trepanning like you need a hole in the head, and then he will grab his big drill and offer to follow through.

(If I had followed my original med school plan, I would have gravitated heavily toward the caveman side of things. Just fwiw.)

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