Biden's Mandate may be a tad too far

[clwnuke]

8 minutes ago, scottyg said:

It is the same drug, so yes, it is safe for human consumption...if the proper amount is taken. All it takes is a simple math conversion, yet folks don't even bother to think that an animal dose may be different than a human one. Cut up the large tablet into smaller pieces. Don't squirt an entire syringe into your mouth...take it in smaller amounts. No one is forcing them take the entire thing all at once.

Taking a large dose meant for a horse = stupid.

Agreed. I've got a lot of math under my belt but I wouldn't even think of attempting that type of conversion with medicine/chemicals.

[JohnsonJones]

2 hours ago, Traveler said:

I thought to start this post with the problem of the internet.  I have become very suspicious that the search engines on the internet have become political - case in point Hunger Biden stories about his laptop.  With this said I have tried to get information about India from the internet.  India is claiming that the combination of Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine is proving to be as effective in treating COVID as having the "vaccine".  They ought to know, India has had some serious problems with COVID.  However, there are all kinds of claims from US health care outlets that Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine are ineffective but there is no data or any specific studies referenced.   I also find it interesting that it seems that the most deaths from the "vaccine" are associated with blood clots and yet blood clots are not listed anywhere on the internet as a side effect of the "vaccine".

I am also concerned that Dr. Fauci is considered the world expert on COVID and is also 100% complicit in funding the research that is very likely the cause of the global pandemic.  The fact that Dr. Fauci has not recuse himself and the US medical industrial complex  has not recommended he be replaced worries me for reasons that seems obviously logical.  For all the blaming of Trump for not managing effectively - there is no person more responsible for how all this has been managed than Dr. Fauci.  And yet whenever the statement of "follow the science" in invoked, especially in political circles, I feel that Dr. Fauci is the single greatest source of that intended science or pseudo science?

The fact that Dr. Fauci and the medical industrial complex says (in relation to those that are concerned with long term side effects of the "vaccine") that there is nothing to see - keep moving on and get the "vaccine" (without any research or studies) leaves me with the impression that individuals like Dr. Fauci see that the general public  are in essence guinea pigs.  But I have also seen an article about a guinea pig being abandoned in a dumpster - which leaves me to believe that perhaps the main stream media and for that matter much of the political arena - may be more concerned with guinea pigs than legal American citizens that think they live in a "free" country. 

 

The Traveler

Source from India (not some conservative site from the US) please?

Preferably within the past 2-3 months, but I suppose old information will work as well (though going off old information many items that would seem to have been pushed by the US are not anymore).

I could give you first hand primary information from someone who has actually VISITED areas in that vicinity, or at least closer to it than the US or Europe in the past few months, but as it is from my mouth and not an actual researcher on COVID-19, I'm not sure you would find that valid, nor should you.

If not Doctor Fauci (who seems to actually get his information from several research papers that are released on the topic, and science is fluctuating at times though holding steady on certain items, so it seems he's getting his information from those who actually DO research and are EXPERTS in the field as opposed to conservative sensationalists), which PANEL of COUNCIL of EXPERTS with actual DEGREES and WHO WORK IN RESEARCH would you suggest?

Edited September 24, 2021 by JohnsonJones

[clwnuke]

Amazing how in our efforts to "protect" children and young adults, we actually doubled their primary risk factor in the number one Covid comorbidity!

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7037a3.htm

Longitudinal Trends in Body Mass Index Before and During the COVID-19 Pandemic Among Persons Aged 2–19 Years — United States, 2018–2020

Summary
What is already known about this topic?

The COVID-19 pandemic led to school closures, disrupted routines, increased stress, and less opportunity for physical activity and proper nutrition, leading to weight gain among children and adolescents.

What is added by this report?

Among a cohort of 432,302 persons aged 2–19 years, the rate of body mass index (BMI) increase approximately doubled during the pandemic compared to a prepandemic period. Persons with prepandemic overweight or obesity and younger school-aged children experienced the largest increases.

What are the implications for public health practice?

Obesity prevention and management efforts during and following the COVID-19 pandemic could include health care provider screening for BMI, food security, and social determinants of health, and increased access to evidence-based pediatric weight management programs and food assistance resources.

[Traveler]

26 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

Source from India (not some conservative site from the US) please?

Preferably within the past 2-3 months, but I suppose old information will work as well (though going off old information many items that would seem to have been pushed by the US are not anymore).

I could give you first hand primary information from someone who has actually VISITED areas in that vicinity, or at least closer to it than the US or Europe in the past few months, but as it is from my mouth and not an actual researcher on COVID-19, I'm not sure you would find that valid, nor should you.

If not Doctor Fauci (who seems to actually get his information from several research papers that are released on the topic, and science is fluctuating at times though holding steady on certain items, so it seems he's getting his information from those who actually DO research and are EXPERTS in the field as opposed to conservative sensationalists), which PANEL of COUNCIL of EXPERTS with actual DEGREES and WHO WORK IN RESEARCH would you suggest?

My source is a good and trusted friend (and his wife) from India that has contacts (including family) that live in India.  

I would reference something in your post ---- "so it seems he's getting his information from those who actually DO research and are EXPERTS in the field".  We all should have learned something from our recent past and the tobacco industry that did many "scientific" research projects involving "EXPERTS in the field" on the effects of tobacco.  Or more recently, internet companies (like Facebook) doing research into the use of their platform by "young" users.  I would point out that Dr. Fauci (all by himself) controls most (if not all) government research grants on the subject.  This means that if Dr. Fauci does not like the results or the intent - there will be no government grant or research monies.  

For this reason I would suggest studies and research done in other countries.  I would suggest France, Italy, Israel and of course India.  All have had their own struggles with COVID and the COVID variants.  But all these countries are currently dealing with COVID better than the USA.  But the information is difficult to come by - especially if you do not have a independent source directly connected to outlets within those countries.  It is kind of like trying to get information about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints by going exclusively through Evangelicals.  They may have "actual" research and are "EXPERTS" in the field - but there is a problem - they have an agenda and are invested in certain results that favor their point of view. 

I also find it interesting that you labeled "conservative sensationalists".  It is interesting to me that "conservative sensationalists" seem to be the only sources in the USA making reference to research done on other countries.  As a retired scientist that has been involved in research (I have researched and published finding on SDLC communication protocols as well as Avionics 1553 multi drop protocols) - I am aware that even leading experts on a subject can become one sided in what they think should be the results.  What worries me the most about Dr. Fauci - from the beginning of all connected to COVID - is that never once have I seen any indications from our Dr. Fauci indicating a willingness to address as creditable any counter opinions or studies.  

If other possibilities are not considered and resolved with research and data - it is not science.  And I do not care how expert or creditable the world thinks such opinion is - I need to see more than opinion.

 

The Traveler 

 

 

[mirkwood]

5 hours ago, Ironhold said:

Everything I'm seeing about Ivermectin says that there's a *massive* difference between what happens when it's given in a clinical setting and what happens when people buy it off the shelf and try taking it on their own. 

Problem is, because the mainstream media (that is, the big-name publishers) have all decided that Ivermectin is bad and only foolish people attempt it, any talk of its use in clinical settings is now being classed as "fake news". 

Seemed to work rather effectively for me.

[JohnsonJones]

On 9/24/2021 at 2:06 PM, Traveler said:

My source is a good and trusted friend (and his wife) from India that has contacts (including family) that live in India.  

I would reference something in your post ---- "so it seems he's getting his information from those who actually DO research and are EXPERTS in the field".  We all should have learned something from our recent past and the tobacco industry that did many "scientific" research projects involving "EXPERTS in the field" on the effects of tobacco.  Or more recently, internet companies (like Facebook) doing research into the use of their platform by "young" users.  I would point out that Dr. Fauci (all by himself) controls most (if not all) government research grants on the subject.  This means that if Dr. Fauci does not like the results or the intent - there will be no government grant or research monies.  

For this reason I would suggest studies and research done in other countries.  I would suggest France, Italy, Israel and of course India.  All have had their own struggles with COVID and the COVID variants.  But all these countries are currently dealing with COVID better than the USA.  But the information is difficult to come by - especially if you do not have a independent source directly connected to outlets within those countries.  It is kind of like trying to get information about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints by going exclusively through Evangelicals.  They may have "actual" research and are "EXPERTS" in the field - but there is a problem - they have an agenda and are invested in certain results that favor their point of view. 

I also find it interesting that you labeled "conservative sensationalists".  It is interesting to me that "conservative sensationalists" seem to be the only sources in the USA making reference to research done on other countries.  As a retired scientist that has been involved in research (I have researched and published finding on SDLC communication protocols as well as Avionics 1553 multi drop protocols) - I am aware that even leading experts on a subject can become one sided in what they think should be the results.  What worries me the most about Dr. Fauci - from the beginning of all connected to COVID - is that never once have I seen any indications from our Dr. Fauci indicating a willingness to address as creditable any counter opinions or studies.  

If other possibilities are not considered and resolved with research and data - it is not science.  And I do not care how expert or creditable the world thinks such opinion is - I need to see more than opinion.

 

The Traveler 

 

 

The thing is, what you are saying isn't what I read or heard about India when I was closer TO India.  The only places I've heard many of the things being stated in this thread seem to have their background to Far Right Extremists from the United States.

Fauci only controls what is in the U.S.  He doesn't control the research, science, or news in Canada, Europe, the Middle East, Africa...or...India.  Most of them are saying the same thing regarding vaccines, masks, and social distancing.

One of the FUNNIEST things I saw was a tape of a meeting in India where they were pushing the populace to wear masks and social distance.  They had one guy stand up advocating strongly against them.  The head of the meeting commanded the guy to sit down and said to the effect..."Don't state false information here...we aren't American's and we don't tolerate their nonsense here."

Even the people in India or those in charge aren't spouting the stuff I've read attributed to India in this thread, and in fact, they pretty much have scorned anyone who thinks that way as a "Foolish American" from what I've heard, seen, and talked with people about.

Which is why I find it interesting the things being attributed to India which go counter to what I've actually seen myself.

However, to be clear...

I did not go to India, but I was almost at it's borders at one point.  I did spend a lot of time in other nations around the world this summer.  Currently,  I'm not anywhere near India (though I do meet Indians who travel and do research there and talk about their home just like we talk about ours) and obviously no where closer to India than anyone else right now...but they still have newspapers.

India Times

Some Articles

REasons why the third wave will be less deadly

Vaccination in India has always been free

Why Delta remains Number 1 threat among all coronavirus variants

Another news paper

The Indian Express

Vaccination drive for Students ahead of reopening colleges

and a more recent article that isn't directly related to Covid but India addressing recent world problems (such as China, which they point the need to find the origins of the virus) and thus includes a bit on the virus

Democracy to Diversity, Prime Minister addresses UN

Where he states

Quote

And when he spoke on the development of the world’s first DNA vaccine, an mRNA vaccine in the final stage of development and work underway on the development of a nasal vaccine, he also reaffirmed India’s decision to export vaccines once again after a hiatus.

In this context, he called vaccine manufacturers to come and make vaccines in India. “I also extend an invitation to vaccine manufacturers from across the world. Come, make vaccines in India,” he said.

The recent news seems to indicate India STRONGLY pushing the vaccines and other items similar to what Fauci and other nations experts have been pushing.  This sounds very contrary to what some are stating in this thread.  The actual NEWS from India seems to be more focused on getting vaccination and safety by quarantines and other measures to halt the spread of the Coronavirus...

Which when people attribute things to India which seem starkly in contrast to what I am reading FROM India...it would be interesting to see if they are quoting mainstream sources FROM India...or something from the far fringes of India that no respectable person in India would actually read...or if this is more just a U.S. thing which is coming from US conservatives (and not ALL conservatives to be clear, it's more the FAR right that I've seen this coming from) or someone in the US trying to attribute things to India which India itself might deny they are saying.

You may be saying something that IS HAPPENING IN INDIA...but I can't find it.  I know they pushed Ivermectin back in the Spring of this year in an effort to fight the virus.  The results are NOT what people in the US are saying they were though, from what I saw it DID help but for unrelated reasons.  Many of those in poverty also had parasites, and getting rid of those parasites actually helped those have stronger immune systems to fight Covid-19.  However, overall, they found it wasn't as effective as many Conservatives in the US are saying it was, and right now in India, though it is still a tool they use, it is NOT the primary item they are using to fight the virus.  They are using vaccines just like anywhere else from what I am reading currently.

If Ivermectin was as effective as you are saying, I don't see why all the articles on Covid I am reading coming out of the mainstream press in India and treating it are trying to get people vaccinated instead of just treating it calmly as a disease you just give them Ivermectin for.  What I'm reading coming out of India is not matching what some people are saying in this thread from what I've seen...

BUT...I am open to be mistaken as well, but I would prefer to have actual sources to mainstream news or respectable organizations from India itself if we are discussing what the Indians are doing.

 

PS: I would want to Emphasize MAINSTREAM MEDIA from India.  Everyplace has their far fringes which are loony (for example, I can find American media which claims we never went to the moon and the Earth is flat for example, but that by no means represents what most Americans think or believe), I'm not looking for some small media no one reads in India...I"m looking for recent modern mainstream news stating what is being stated in this thread regarding what India is doing with Ivermectin as the main thing they are using to fight Covid as some have claimed, or to support other theories people are attributing to India.  The thing about India is they publish news and we can actually READ the news coming out of India...unlike some other places which may have a much harder language barrier to overcome.

Edited September 26, 2021 by JohnsonJones

[Anddenex]

I like JP: