Fether

Judgement and attributing motives

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18 hours ago, Fether said:

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Are there any scriptures or words from prophets that add insight?

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The problem with scriptures (prophetic insights) is that such is often interoperated by the reader/listener.   Anciently it was understood that a righteous person was someone that made and kept covenants given to them by G-d.  Conversely a unrighteous person was one that refused and broke the covenants G-d has made with them.

If we extend this understanding of righteousness verses unrighteousness we can understand that a righteous judgment is a judgment made through and according to G-d's covenants.  A unrighteous judgment is a judgment made outside of or contrary to G-d's covenants. 

 

The Traveler

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7 hours ago, Fether said:

Just so I understand. You are saying we shouldn’t judge motives… but we should find the reason for why someone does something?

Please expound in this satement

Judging someone is to one degree or another opinion based. If you are dealing with facts, like you'd need to treat someone, you are no longer judging them but dealing with actual truth. If he admits the actual reason behind his behavior there is no need to judge him, the truth has been manifest.

You said in the OP that you didn't want to actually talk about the coworkers problem, just attributing motives as it relates to judging. I don't consider myself qualified to address his issues anyway.

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1 hour ago, laronius said:

You said in the OP that you didn't want to actually talk about the coworkers problem, just attributing motives as it relates to judging. I don't consider myself qualified to address his issues anyway.

The purpose of the post was not to attribute motive or figure out who is right or wrong. But the actual process of attributing motive and what is the most appropriate process to do so.

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3 minutes ago, Fether said:

The purpose of the post was not to attribute motive or figure out who is right or wrong. But the actual process of attributing motive and what is the most appropriate process to do so.

The appropriate process is to remember that the person you are judging and critiquing (which you have every right to do) almost certainly doesn’t care what you think of them. Unless you are friends/family. And even then they might not care. 

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17 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

The appropriate process is to remember that the person you are judging and critiquing (which you have every right to do) almost certainly doesn’t care what you think of them. Unless you are friends/family. And even then they might not care. 

Your actually completely wrong. The reason I am asking this is because they care deeply and it is amplifying the depression they are experiencing. On the other end, people don’t want to help because they have done a few inappropriate things on an attempt to deal with their emotions.

aim trying to make sense and get a good idea of what the Christlike approach is.

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12 minutes ago, Suzie said:

@Fether I think your heart is in the right place. Unfortunately, mental health issues are often misunderstood and very few people have the knowledge, patience, compassion and understanding to deal with family, friends or co-workers who are struggling.

I think you are exactly right. It just breaks my heart to see them struggle so much and then see my friends talk poorly of them.

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9 hours ago, Fether said:

So say there is a friend, like the one above, who struggles deeply with emotional pain and trauma, and on occasion acted inappropriately to deal with it. One can easily assume, as illustrated, that they are either being manipulative and seeking attention, or just doesn’t realize what they are doing and are simply crying out for help. What would the appropriate thought process and actions be?

That's a great question, and these are my thoughts to your question:

1. Is the friend truly being manipulative and attention seeking? If so, then I believe it needs to be called out. I don't think it is in any way good to allow manipulative behavior -- no matter how kind we are. If it is merely attention seeking, then that is different.

2. Who is the person closest to this friend? At times like these the closest friend can open up both points of view -- not take a side -- but open both points of view. I had this with someone I love. If there was any disagreement, the person would take that as a sign of disrespect. In working on that relationship, I discovered that if I pointed out first all the things that were good the individual would drop all guard. After the guard was down, I would then point out I could understand the other perspective (if the other perspective actually had legit aspects).

3. If friend is being sincere, then the other person needs to be called out also -- in private.

4. Has there been any heart to heart with the one who believes they are crying out for help, or the one that believes they are being manipulative? Why does the other friend think they are being manipulative -- what is their history and experience? Why do some believe it is a cry for help? There has to be some reason, some catalyst, as to why the other friend thinks they are being manipulative or attention seeking or both.

I just finished up with a lesson on "correct principles" and I assume there are correct principles to follow in these situations. I think removing our beam before trying to judge a situation is a great principle.

I think reproving with sharpness is a great principle if we have sufficiently pulled the beam from our own eye. If the friend is being sincere and crying out for help, then the other friend needs to remove his/her beam. Thus the thought about their history and experience. Something is triggering the other friend to call out the behavior as manipulative. What is it? Why is it? Is it correct?

Now, for clarity, I'm sharing things that are easy to type, but in these situations I am usually the guy in the middle, or the one that doesn't want to say anything so not to create waves.

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Fether said:

Your actually completely wrong. The reason I am asking this is because they care deeply and it is amplifying the depression they are experiencing. On the other end, people don’t want to help because they have done a few inappropriate things on an attempt to deal with their emotions.

aim trying to make sense and get a good idea of what the Christlike approach is.

Great, glad I’m wrong than. 
 

But here is what’s cool. I’m not wrong. In most cases, say, 99% of them, your judgement, and you expressing it, will have absolutely no effect on anyone aside your close circle. And yes, they might not care either. 
 

Hope things work out for you and your friend. 

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I know three people with PTSD.   Two of them are so used to being misunderstood, that they have done the work necessary to not give a crap about what most people have to say.   The third talks a big game about not caring, but is deeply sensitive and deeply wounded whenever he feels misjudged.  All three of them have developed thick skins (that fail them sometimes), and have small closely guarded doors, that they rarely let people through. 

All three of them deeply value someone who understands them and can still express love and acceptance towards them, even though they know they fall short of perfection.   At least two of them understand they occasionally fall so short, they harm those they love.

Edited by NeuroTypical

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1 hour ago, LDSGator said:

But here is what’s cool. I’m not wrong. In most cases, say, 99% of them, your judgement, and you expressing it, will have absolutely no effect on anyone aside your close circle. And yes, they might not care either. 

This has literally no bearing on the topic. We don’t judge because we want people to care, we need to make decisions and can’t do so till we also make judgements.

Edited by Fether

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I’m the owner/manager of an office of around twenty people. If someone is behaving inappropriately, they will be let go. Can’t work here anymore. Their motives and or reasons for the problems are not my problem. If they refuse to correct it, they must be gone. 
I won’t jeopardize the other employees or the business with problems, even if I’m sympathetic. 

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