The Record of the Jews

[romans8]

Can someone clarify a few passags in this chapter.

1 Nephi 5:6 says they went to Jerusalem to obtain the record of the Jews. Verse 11 says
the record of the Jews contained the five book of Moses. Verse 12 says the plates also
contained a "record of the Jews from the beginning, even down to the commencement of the 
reign of Zedekiah, king of Judah".

Do the peoples who make up the "Jews" and their record exclude all the other tribes outside 
of Benjamin and Judah?  What is considered the "beginning of the record" of the Jews?

Matteo

[Just_A_Guy]

2 hours ago, romans8 said:

Can someone clarify a few passags in this chapter.

1 Nephi 5:6 says they went to Jerusalem to obtain the record of the Jews. Verse 11 says
the record of the Jews contained the five book of Moses. Verse 12 says the plates also
contained a "record of the Jews from the beginning, even down to the commencement of the 
reign of Zedekiah, king of Judah".

Do the peoples who make up the "Jews" and their record exclude all the other tribes outside 
of Benjamin and Judah?  What is considered the "beginning of the record" of the Jews?

Matteo

Nephi often (I hesitate to say “always”) uses “Jews” and “Israelites” interchangeably, particularly when describing events after the fall of the Northern Kingdom—after which time any self-identified “Israelites” who were left were clearly under the hegemony of the Judahite kings, even if they individually traced their ancestry/inheritances through other tribes.

I don’t quite understand your question about what is considered the “beginning” of the record of the Jews.  Insofar as it contained the Torah, including some form of Genesis, it could be said to have an account from the beginning of the world.  

[CV75]

10 hours ago, romans8 said:

Can someone clarify a few passags in this chapter.

1 Nephi 5:6 says they went to Jerusalem to obtain the record of the Jews. Verse 11 says
the record of the Jews contained the five book of Moses. Verse 12 says the plates also
contained a "record of the Jews from the beginning, even down to the commencement of the 
reign of Zedekiah, king of Judah".

Do the peoples who make up the "Jews" and their record exclude all the other tribes outside 
of Benjamin and Judah?  What is considered the "beginning of the record" of the Jews?

Matteo

It would not exclude any of the tribes, but the records from Moses onward were kept principally by the priests and kings who were primarily from Judah, Benjamin and Levi who considered Israel to be a common people, even when divided by political and religious conflicts. We do not know how complete the records were that Nephi had in comparison to our modern old testament and apocrypha.

Edited September 19, 2021 by CV75

[Traveler]

On 9/18/2021 at 8:28 AM, romans8 said:

Can someone clarify a few passags in this chapter.

1 Nephi 5:6 says they went to Jerusalem to obtain the record of the Jews. Verse 11 says
the record of the Jews contained the five book of Moses. Verse 12 says the plates also
contained a "record of the Jews from the beginning, even down to the commencement of the 
reign of Zedekiah, king of Judah".

Do the peoples who make up the "Jews" and their record exclude all the other tribes outside 
of Benjamin and Judah?  What is considered the "beginning of the record" of the Jews?

Matteo

There have all ready been some very good comments.  I thought to add some thought as an armature student of ancient middle eastern studies.  The discovery of the vast array of Dead Sea Scrolls has drastically changed our view of the world of the Jews at the time of Jesus and before (from the second temple era on).  These precious artifacts has demonstrated that what has been handed down as tradition over the last 2,000 years is extremely inaccurate.  For example documents like the "Testaments of the Patriarchs" and the Book of Enoch that were left out of our modern Bible are historically more accurate than accepted1700 years ago.  The reasons given anciently for rejecting these documents turns out to be completely untrue - leaving modern students to wonder if deliberate deception (lying) was involved in the early evolution of what is now Traditional Christianity .  

But there are other interesting facts about ancient scripture.  Within the Dead Sea Scrolls there was a very distinct hierarchy of their scripture texts.  Not just which books of scripture but which copy and version of each text.  One of the primary reasons for the Dead Sea settlement was what was known as a scriptorium.  Copies were made of sacred scripture text - most likely to be used at ancient synagogues.  But some copies were obviously more sacred than others.  Select breeds of sheep were used for certain copies of the scrolls.  These were believed to be like standard copies kept at the scriptorium from which other copies were made for distribution.

There was another purpose for the Settlement that is not often mentioned in modern religious circles.  This purpose was to maintain a pure and clean cadre of priest for officiating in the ordinances at the temple in Jerusalem.  One of the greatest mysteries of the Dead Sea Scriptures is what is known as "The Copper Scroll".  This is a most unique scripture that relates directly to the Temple of Jerusalem.  A number of prominent scholars (Catholic scholars dominate as the experts and currently control the Dead Sea Scriptures) believe that the most accurate scriptures were kept at the temple on mettle scrolls or plates in the Arch of the Covenant in the Holy of Holy of the temple.  It is my personal theory that these very special copies of ancient scripture that were kept at the temple were what Nephi calls "The Record of the Jews".  We know from records at the Dead Sea Settlement that any scriptures kept at the temple were to be watched over and kept at the temple by covenant.  The fact that Laban had this sacred artifact in his residence was a gross breaking of a sacred covenant.  Anciently the punishment for breaking such a sacred covenant with G-d was to be beheaded. 

We know from the Book of Mormon that the record of the Jews was what became known as the Brass plates of Laban.   The Book of Mormon tells us that this record was very sacred and will be preserved.  This all makes it very unlikely that Joseph Smith conjured up the Book of Mormon as a fantasy and in fact the more we learn about the times in question the more accurate we learn to Book of Mormon must be - even more accurate than the Bible as it is presented to us in our modern era.

 

The Traveler 

[romans8]

On 9/18/2021 at 8:43 PM, CV75 said:

It would not exclude any of the tribes, but the records from Moses onward were kept principally by the priests and kings who were primarily from Judah, Benjamin and Levi who considered Israel to be a common people, even when divided by political and religious conflicts. We do not know how complete the records were that Nephi had in comparison to our modern old testament and apocrypha.

I found some mention of the brass plates at https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1988/01/the-plates-of-brass-a-witness-of-christ?lang=eng

The Brass Plates may well have been the official scripture of the Ten Tribes. It is probable that some
prophets wrote on these plates whose writings may not have been recorded on the records kept in
Judah. Were Zenos, Zenock, Neum, and Ezias … among them?” (Answers to Book of Mormon Questions,
Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1967, pp. 43–44.)

Edited October 2, 2021 by romans8

[CV75]

5 hours ago, romans8 said:

I found some mention of the brass plates at https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1988/01/the-plates-of-brass-a-witness-of-christ?lang=eng

The Brass Plates may well have been the official scripture of the Ten Tribes. It is probable that some
prophets wrote on these plates whose writings may not have been recorded on the records kept in
Judah. Were Zenos, Zenock, Neum, and Ezias … among them?” (Answers to Book of Mormon Questions,
Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1967, pp. 43–44.)

Good find! In that case, Nephi had these other prophets' writings but lacked Malachi.