Are we sure wickedness isn't happiness?

[Fether]

This morning, I was reading Elder D Todd Christofferson's talk "The Love of God" and was struck with this question and a few others. Why do we love evil? Is it really possible to reject all evil, not out of duty, but out of desire? Can we really live a life of enjoyment by rejecting all evil?

This is, obviously, coming from a person who has some sins they enjoy. Overall, like the rich young ruler, I live the gospel very close to the law. However, I am not blind to the many sins I still hold on to. There is a running inside sexual joke my friends and I reference regularly. I enjoy entertainment that swears and uses the Lord's name in vain. I enjoy friendly trash talk, though innocent, sometimes rude things leave my mouth in the name of humor. I wake up early to do scripture study and prepare for the day, but often times I rush through that so I have time to play video games before my kids get up. And though I have lines of content I won't partake in (sexual content, nudity, and amorality), I do play rated M videogames that do have some content that is uncomely of a saint.

This is not a post fishing for the gratification of my sins like "Oh, you are doing great Fether! we all have room to grow". Rather, I want to ask, what is the process in taking these weaknesses in character and changing them into strengths?

Edited October 8, 2021 by Fether

[CV75]

Pick one item at a time a focus on it, asking the Lord specifically for help and making a commitment not to indulge next time -- and then don't no matter how uncomfortable you feel resisting the temptation. That includes praying for help while in the midst of the temptation or indulgence. That works for me, anyway.

I have found that a prayerful, in-depth study of the "cure" for whatever brings you the point of temptation helps with this (e.g., charity, virtue, unity, Gift of the Holy Ghost, remembering Jesus, covenants, etc. --basically a run-through of the Preach My Gospel topics).

[Anddenex]

3 hours ago, Fether said:

This morning, I was reading Elder D Todd Christofferson's talk "The Love of God" and was struck with this question and a few others. Why do we love evil? Is it really possible to reject all evil, not out of duty, but out of desire? Can we really live a life of enjoyment by rejecting all evil?

This is, obviously, coming from a person who has some sins they enjoy. Overall, like the rich young ruler, I live the gospel very close to the law. However, I am not blind to the many sins I still hold on to. There is a running inside sexual joke my friends and I reference regularly. I enjoy entertainment that swears and uses the Lord's name in vain. I enjoy friendly trash talk, though innocent, sometimes rude things leave my mouth in the name of humor. I wake up early to do scripture study and prepare for the day, but often times I rush through that so I have time to play video games before my kids get up. And though I have lines of content I won't partake in (sexual content, nudity, and amorality), I do play rated M videogames that do have some content that is uncomely of a saint.

This is not a post fishing for the gratification of my sins like "Oh, you are doing great Fether! we all have room to grow". Rather, I want to ask, what is the process in taking these weaknesses in character and changing them into strengths?

Why do we love evil? Is it really possible to reject all evil, not out of duty, but out of desire? Can we really live a life of enjoyment by rejecting all evil?

We are beings with a dual nature, the natural man and our spirit. Our "love" of evil is influenced by our nature and nurture. The spiritual or divine requires self-sacrifice to become divine, to overcome the nature of the natural man. The naturally man doesn't require any "desire" we simply accept what desires are at the moment or what benefit us most. The spiritual mind, the divine, requires knowledge, spirit, and action. Thus it is easier to follow the world (evil), rather than following the divine. We don't need to increase in knowledge to follow evil or love evil.

Yes, it is possible to reject evil out of desire. It is desire that brings us to Christ, without desire we can't become like Christ. As we seek to become like Christ I believe the concept of becoming a "new creature" in Christ is wonderful. It signifies what was old is now no longer, as we are a "new" creature with new desires. Thus a change is what we desire, which then allows us, if we truly seek, to overcome something else and become a new creature in Christ.

Yes, we can live a life of enjoyment by rejecting all evil, however, I think the contrast in this life is what has made it hard for me. I didn't take certain jobs (although I would have made more money) to keep the Sabbath day holy. As a result I had to work two jobs (while going through school) to make ends meet. Growing up we were taught about the young man at BYU who turned down a NFL career because he was taught to keep the Sabbath day holy. I believed in this. Yet, we have/had two general authorities who chose not to keep the Sabbath day holy and chose an NFL career. These contrasts in this life I believe blur the line. It appears as though keeping the Sabbath day holy isn't as important as the Church made it because look who was called as a GA (not the man who kept the Sabbath day holy). I think these are the type of contrast that make this all the more fuliginous.

Rather, I want to ask, what is the process in taking these weaknesses in character and changing them into strengths?

Same as with the other thread "Charity".

[Traveler]

5 hours ago, Fether said:

This morning, I was reading Elder D Todd Christofferson's talk "The Love of God" and was struck with this question and a few others. Why do we love evil? Is it really possible to reject all evil, not out of duty, but out of desire? Can we really live a life of enjoyment by rejecting all evil?

This is, obviously, coming from a person who has some sins they enjoy. Overall, like the rich young ruler, I live the gospel very close to the law. However, I am not blind to the many sins I still hold on to. There is a running inside sexual joke my friends and I reference regularly. I enjoy entertainment that swears and uses the Lord's name in vain. I enjoy friendly trash talk, though innocent, sometimes rude things leave my mouth in the name of humor. I wake up early to do scripture study and prepare for the day, but often times I rush through that so I have time to play video games before my kids get up. And though I have lines of content I won't partake in (sexual content, nudity, and amorality), I do play rated M videogames that do have some content that is uncomely of a saint.

This is not a post fishing for the gratification of my sins like "Oh, you are doing great Fether! we all have room to grow". Rather, I want to ask, what is the process in taking these weaknesses in character and changing them into strengths?

Often we do not understand something because we are confused.  Let me make a couple of definitions of the terms righteous and wicked.   the definition of righteous is to make and keep covenants with G-d.  The definition of wicked is to rebel against and reject G-d's covenants.   I have always found that striving to keep my covenants is a source of GREAT joy.  Whenever I rebel and reject any covenant the result is always misery.    I believe (according to my personal experience) that when I allow myself to become confused concerning my covenants - it never work out to my benefit or joy.  And I do realize that it is better and a lot more fun to learn from positive reinforcement than it is from negative reinforcement. 

 

The Traveler

[romans8]

21 hours ago, Anddenex said:

We are beings with a dual nature, the natural man and our spirit. Our "love" of evil is influenced by our nature and nurture.

@Fether

God had originally created Adam and Eve good; without a sinful nature. They were created in
the image of God. However, with their disobedience, sin entered into their nature. When they
had children,  Adam's image and likeness was passed along to his offspring (Romans 5:12).
This verse also depicts the truth that sin leads to death (Romans 6:23 and Ephesians 2:1). 
Those who are in the realm of the flesh (or sinful nature) cannot please God (Romans 8:7–8).

The Book of Mormon indicates likewise.

"This is the thing which I was about to explain. Now we see that Adam did fall by the partaking of
the forbidden fruit, according to the word of God; and thus we see, that by his fall, all mankind became
a lost and fallen people" (Alma 12:22).

"Therefore, as the soul could never die, and the fall had brought upon all mankind a spiritual death
as well as a temporal, that is, they were cut off from the presence of the Lord, it was expedient that
mankind should be reclaimed from this spiritual death. Therefore, as they had become carnal,
sensual, and devilish, by nature, this probationary state became a state for them to prepare; it
became a preparatory state" (Alma 42:9-10).

"And the Lord said unto me: Marvel not that all mankind, yea, men and women, all nations, kindreds,
tongues and people, must be born again; yea, born of God, changed from their carnal and fallen state,
to a state of righteousness, being redeemed of God, becoming his sons and daughters" (Mosiah 27:25).

"... but I say unto you they are blessed; for behold, as in Adam, or by nature, they fall, even so the
blood of Christ atoneth for their sins" (Mosiah 3:16).

"For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, 
forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the 
natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord" (Mosiah 3:19).

Matteo

Edited October 9, 2021 by romans8

[askandanswer]

On 10/8/2021 at 11:00 PM, Fether said:

 Rather, I want to ask, what is the process in taking these weaknesses in character and changing them into strengths?

I listened to this talk early last week. It seems as if it might be relevant to your question.

https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/michael-d-barnes/finding-strength-christ/

 

[laronius]

We have fallen bodies, living in a fallen world. That part of us, called the natural man, truly does enjoy this world. But the Lord wasn't talking about what makes the natural man happy. The natural man will eventually die with our fallen bodies and all we'll have left is the happiness or misery we've brought to our spirit. This I believe is what the Lord is speaking of.

But to jump to the process of changing, the natural man will always be natural but it needs to be subdued. This is done under the influence of the Spirit which can bring about a change of heart so that we lose all desire for the sin. I think the perfect example of this happened to the people in response to King Benjamin's speech:

Mosiah 5:2 ...the Spirit of the Lord Omnipotent, which has wrought a mighty change in us, or in our hearts, that we have no more disposition to do evil, but to do good continually.

I think we all experience this from time to time but it's not a permanent condition. But the more we invite the Holy Ghost into our lives the more complete and the more lasting this change can be.

[LineUponLine]

Two scriptures come to mind:

1 Corinthians 13:11 - When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

Hopefully we can simply mature and grow over time so that the childish, immature, and desires of the natural man diminish. This can be accomplished more and more through the small and simple things of (specific and sincere) prayer, scripture study, and temple attendance.

Job 28: 28 - And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.

The more we understand by gaining light and knowledge, the more we will depart from evil. Simply by doing those things that draw us to God we will slowly but surely become more like him in thought, word, and action.

[Ironhold]

During the so-called "Golden Age" of comic books in the United States, "true crime" titles were quite popular with adult readers. 

These titles told the story of various criminals whose illegal actions brought them temporary luxury, only to have everything - perhaps even their lives - taken away from them as the ultimate consequence of their actions. The overall message was "Crime may bring you comfort in the short term, but in the long term it's going to be even worse for you than what you already have right now." 

Sadly, due to the moral backlash caused by the publication of the work "Seduction of the Innocent", these true crime titles largely ceased to exist, the result of the industry accountability body known as the Comics Code Authority refusing to certify any such book. 

Why?

In the eyes of the CCA officials, these books glorified crime by showing *that* the criminals gained luxury from their crimes, and that even though the criminals all met terrible fats this depiction was all that mattered.