Mark 4 - The Parable of the Sower


romans8
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I saw some explanation of it on this General Conference sermon.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2015/04/the-parable-of-the-sower?lang=eng 

Elder Oaks mentions 3 locations:

I. Stony Ground, No Root 
II. Thorns: The Cares of This World and the Deceitfulness of Riches
III. Fell into Good Ground and Brought Forth Fruit

Is there a reason why he omitted the location of the way side?

He also said, "The parable of the sower warns us of circumstances and attitudes that can keep anyone who 
has received the seed of the gospel message from bringing forth a goodly harvest".

If I were talking about this parable, I would mention one very important adversary; the fowls.  "And 
it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up.".

Can the birds also be viewed as negative in the parable of the mustard seed?  One person's explanation 
is found here - https://www.cgg.org/index.cfm/library/biblestudy/id/1115/parable-mustard-seed.htm 

I see that the parable encompasses two main groups of people:

1] those on the way side, stony ground, and among the thorns (no fruit is produced or whatever fruit is
then becomes unfruitful).
2] those on the good ground (fruit is produced and remains good).

I found two definitions in the "Plan of Salvation" guide.

Terrestrial kingdom. People who refuse to accept the gospel of Jesus Christ but who live honorable lives 
will receive a place in the terrestrial kingdom.

Telestial kingdom. Those who continue in their sins and do not repent will receive a place in the telestial 
kingdom.

Which of these two kingdom inhabitants encompass group #1?

Matteo

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1 hour ago, romans8 said:

Is there a reason why he omitted the location of the way side?

 

You would have to ask him why in this talk he didn't see the necessity of mentioning the wayside. It is quite normal for a person giving a talk to focus on certain aspects of a parable. I'm sure you have done the same thing.

If I were talking about this parable, I would mention one very important adversary; the fowls.  "And 
it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up.".

Can the birds also be viewed as negative in the parable of the mustard seed?  One person's explanation 
is found here - https://www.cgg.org/index.cfm/library/biblestudy/id/1115/parable-mustard-seed.htm 

I see that the parable encompasses two main groups of people:

1] those on the way side, stony ground, and among the thorns (no fruit is produced or whatever fruit is
then becomes unfruitful).
2] those on the good ground (fruit is produced and remains good).

I found two definitions in the "Plan of Salvation" guide.

Terrestrial kingdom. People who refuse to accept the gospel of Jesus Christ but who live honorable lives 
will receive a place in the terrestrial kingdom.

Telestial kingdom. Those who continue in their sins and do not repent will receive a place in the telestial 
kingdom.

Which of these two kingdom inhabitants encompass group #1?

Matteo

Is there a reason why he omitted the location of the way side?

You would have to ask him why in this talk he didn't see the necessity of mentioning the wayside. It is quite normal for a person giving a talk to focus on certain aspects of a parable. I'm sure you have done the same thing.

If I were talking about this parable, I would mention one very important adversary; the fowls.

That's great, but you weren't the one giving the talk. Each individual, as with yourself, assigned to give a talk will focus on what they feel the purpose of the talk is.

Can the birds also be viewed as negative in the parable of the mustard seed?

The birds were eating the seeds, so it would appear as if the birds in this sense (to some degree) are negative force in this parable.

Which of these two kingdom inhabitants encompass group #1?

This is what is defined as an eternal judgment, only the Lord has the authority to make the eternal judgement. They could be in all three kingdoms (depending on the Lord's judgement). The chances are more likely they would be in the Terrestrial or Telestial. As to which though, its not important to this parable. Anything less than the Celestial is still not with God the Father and his Son.

 

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1 hour ago, romans8 said:

[1]I saw some explanation of it on this General Conference sermon.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2015/04/the-parable-of-the-sower?lang=eng 

Elder Oaks mentions 3 locations:

I. Stony Ground, No Root 
II. Thorns: The Cares of This World and the Deceitfulness of Riches
III. Fell into Good Ground and Brought Forth Fruit

Is there a reason why he omitted the location of the way side?

He also said, "The parable of the sower warns us of circumstances and attitudes that can keep anyone who 
has received the seed of the gospel message from bringing forth a goodly harvest".

If I were talking about this parable, I would mention one very important adversary; the fowls.  "And 
it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up.".

[2]Can the birds also be viewed as negative in the parable of the mustard seed?  One person's explanation 
is found here - https://www.cgg.org/index.cfm/library/biblestudy/id/1115/parable-mustard-seed.htm 

I see that the parable encompasses two main groups of people:

1] those on the way side, stony ground, and among the thorns (no fruit is produced or whatever fruit is
then becomes unfruitful).
2] those on the good ground (fruit is produced and remains good).

[3]I found two definitions in the "Plan of Salvation" guide.

Terrestrial kingdom. People who refuse to accept the gospel of Jesus Christ but who live honorable lives 
will receive a place in the terrestrial kingdom.

Telestial kingdom. Those who continue in their sins and do not repent will receive a place in the telestial 
kingdom.

Which of these two kingdom inhabitants encompass group #1?

Matteo

1) Elder Oaks himself explains:

The different soils on which the seeds fell represent different ways in which mortals receive and follow these teachings. Thus the seeds that “fell by the way side” (Mark 4:4) have not reached mortal soil where they might possibly grow. They are like teachings that fall upon a heart hardened or unprepared. I will say nothing more of these. My message concerns those of us who have committed to be followers of Christ. What do we do with the Savior’s teachings as we live our lives?

In other words, he doesn’t feel that particular group concerns his particular audience in light of the broader points he is trying to make in that particular sermon.

2) Mr. Collins’s view of the role of birds in the parable of the mustard tree is intriguing, but it’s worth noting that in similar allegories of trees that give shelter to birds (Ezekiel 17, Daniel 4) the emphasis seems to be on the virtue/usefulness of the tree itself.  I see the appeal of Collins’s interpretation for folks who hate Catholicism or are otherwise predisposed to find corruption in a church; but from what I can gather, his interpretation seems to be very much a minority view among scholars.

3) The parable of the sower was not, I think, intended as a doctrinal exposition about what actions lead to a person winding up on what kingdom of glory; and I’m not sure how useful it is to try to overlay it onto the LDS doctrine regarding the kingdoms of glory (and frankly, I have some concerns that the way you lay out the Terrestrial and Telestial kingdoms aren’t quite scriptural—can you provide a link to the source you’re citing?).  The primary LDS scriptures that apply to the topic are D&C 76 and 88, which say what they say and place our individual salvations within the context of a broader divine plan (and frankly, to my mind, more properly describe potential degrees of ultimate reconciliation with God rather than promising the magnitude of one’s reward or punishment).  Christ’s parable, by contrast, is less about other people’s destinations, and more about how to foster attitudes and behaviors that establish our trajectory towards our destinations.

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3 hours ago, romans8 said:

I saw some explanation of it on this General Conference sermon.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2015/04/the-parable-of-the-sower?lang=eng 

Elder Oaks mentions 3 locations:

I. Stony Ground, No Root 
II. Thorns: The Cares of This World and the Deceitfulness of Riches
III. Fell into Good Ground and Brought Forth Fruit

Is there a reason why he omitted the location of the way side?

He also said, "The parable of the sower warns us of circumstances and attitudes that can keep anyone who 
has received the seed of the gospel message from bringing forth a goodly harvest".

If I were talking about this parable, I would mention one very important adversary; the fowls.  "And 
it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up.".

Can the birds also be viewed as negative in the parable of the mustard seed?  One person's explanation 
is found here - https://www.cgg.org/index.cfm/library/biblestudy/id/1115/parable-mustard-seed.htm 

I see that the parable encompasses two main groups of people:

1] those on the way side, stony ground, and among the thorns (no fruit is produced or whatever fruit is
then becomes unfruitful).
2] those on the good ground (fruit is produced and remains good).

I found two definitions in the "Plan of Salvation" guide.

Terrestrial kingdom. People who refuse to accept the gospel of Jesus Christ but who live honorable lives 
will receive a place in the terrestrial kingdom.

Telestial kingdom. Those who continue in their sins and do not repent will receive a place in the telestial 
kingdom.

Which of these two kingdom inhabitants encompass group #1?

Matteo

I think General Conference talks are more to provide a particular insight from a parable than a comprehensive, formal/official/scholarly doctrinal interpretation  -- just like we do!

It seems to me the way side indicates that the word never had a chance to take root at all, as it seems to have in the stony, thorny and good places. Sometimes a person can reject the seed outright (see Alma 32) or have it prevented from them (see D&C 138) and in either case the birds (one's preferences, circumstances or distractions created by themselves or others, whether intentionally or by conspiracy) do their thing.

So group #1 might be those in the spirit world waiting for the word to be sown without interference, or those who have rejected it anyway.

The kingdoms of glory in the are given according to the desires of our hearts.

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14 hours ago, romans8 said:

.....

Which of these two kingdom inhabitants encompass group #1?

Matteo

 

There have been some very good explanations - especially by @Just_A_Guy.  I would suggest that you have missed the  purpose of the parable in that I believe it is pointed specifically to the idea and concept that the seed does not and will not grow on ground that has not been prepared and protected to receive the seed such that the seed can grow and produce fruit.  Rather there are many way that will prevent the seed from growing and bringing forth fruit.  Thus I do not think we need concern ourselves with what others have failed in doing to preparing their ground but rather focus on our ground and preparing such to receive and care for the seed that according to the divine law of the harvest - we will eventually enjoy the fruit of the harvest.

 

The Traveler

Edited by Traveler
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14 hours ago, romans8 said:

 

I see that the parable encompasses two main groups of people:

1] those on the way side, stony ground, and among the thorns (no fruit is produced or whatever fruit is
then becomes unfruitful).
2] those on the good ground (fruit is produced and remains good).

I found two definitions in the "Plan of Salvation" guide.

Terrestrial kingdom. People who refuse to accept the gospel of Jesus Christ but who live honorable lives 
will receive a place in the terrestrial kingdom.

Telestial kingdom. Those who continue in their sins and do not repent will receive a place in the telestial 
kingdom.

Which of these two kingdom inhabitants encompass group #1?

Matteo

We are taught in D&C that the Terrestrial kingdom is for those who are honorable people but not valiant in the testimony of Jesus. To me this is akin to having shallow soil but under the heat of the day do not endure. I think those who are choked by their desire for worldliness may also fall in this category. I have known people who are good people and described as very charitable but who love what the world has to offer too much to put God first. But only God will know where to draw that line between inheriting the Terrestrial or Telestial kingdoms. 

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On 10/9/2021 at 6:38 AM, romans8 said:

If I were talking about this parable, I would mention one very important adversary; the fowls.  "And 
it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up.".

This is my favorite part of the parable!  

The fowls can be a welcome assistant instead of an adversary.

You never know what will happen with your testimony.  And if I were a Mission President, I would share the following with my missionaries on a routine basis.  The sower sows where he will.  And sometimes the seeds may pass on the wayside, and that's OK.  Occasionally, when the birds devour the seeds, they do not digest them completely.  Eventually, the bird will fly away and deposit the partially digested seed onto a healthy location with some fertilizer and that seed will take root in a new location that had never previously had that species of plant. 

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1988/01/i-will-not-burn-the-book?lang=eng

The above is a perfect example.  When Brother Francesca found the Book of Mormon it had been partially digested, "because the cover and frontispiece had been stripped off."

 

Edited by mikbone
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On 10/9/2021 at 11:10 AM, Just_A_Guy said:

3) The parable of the sower was not, I think, intended as a doctrinal exposition about what actions lead to a person winding up on what kingdom of glory; and I’m not sure how useful it is to try to overlay it onto the LDS doctrine regarding the kingdoms of glory (and frankly, I have some concerns that the way you lay out the Terrestrial and Telestial kingdoms aren’t quite scriptural—can you provide a link to the source you’re citing?).

I found the definitions on page 14 in this publication.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/bc/content/ldsorg/content/english/manual/missionary/pdf/36950_the-plan-of-salvation-eng.pdf

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