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Emmanuel Goldstein

This seems so uncomfortable

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D&C 130:1 When the Savior shall appear we shall see him as he is. We shall see that he is a man like ourselves.
2 And that same sociality which exists among us here will exist among us there, only it will be coupled with eternal glory, which glory we do not now enjoy.

So, does this include the ignoring of the quiet and the ascension of the popular cliques? Sorry, but hanging out with some of the people in my ward sounds like hell to me.

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12 minutes ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

D&C 130:1 When the Savior shall appear we shall see him as he is. We shall see that he is a man like ourselves.
2 And that same sociality which exists among us here will exist among us there, only it will be coupled with eternal glory, which glory we do not now enjoy.

So, does this include the ignoring of the quiet and the ascension of the popular cliques? Sorry, but hanging out with some of the people in my ward sounds like hell to me.

There’s points I need to remind myself repeatedly  that the idiots around me are nothing compared to thier glorified Christ-like sleves

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13 minutes ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

 

So, does this include the ignoring of the quiet and the ascension of the popular cliques? Sorry, but hanging out with some of the people in my ward sounds like hell to me.

Let me bold this other section for you

14 minutes ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

And that same sociality which exists among us here will exist among us there, only it will be coupled with eternal glory, which glory we do not now enjoy.

I would also ask, if you are a quiet person, why don’t you stop being quiet and reach out to others instead of waiting for them to reach out? Truth is, we are all the same. We are all a little apprehensive about reaching out to others. 
 

and the ascension of the popular? What does that even mean? It honestly seems like your own bitterness seems to be a bigger issue than any of these supposed injustices 

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When it relates to sociality, I think it means that we will still associate as we do here, in that we have families and friends and converse and work together.

HOWEVER...the things that are created by pride, prejudice, arrogance, and all things that do not belong in heaven will not be there.  We will love all, seek to help all, and trend to work for the help of others. 

I imagine (from what I've seen in some of the wards) that compared to some places within the sociality of the Church, the Celestial Kingdom will run almost the exact opposite of it.  There will be no one elevated above others, or a "popular" crowd vs. the meek...etc. 

It will be more toward the IDEAL of what a Ward should be and run rather than how it actually occurs in our modern era where the more popular and rich get the prestige (and prestigious callings at times...in some areas I've been it's has been almost like nepotism and popularity run the church rather than humility, love, and righteousness.  I'm POSITIVE heaven is NOT going to be like that).  It won't be those who are rich and powerful that rule the world here today that will be there ruling heaven...no MATTER WHAT earthly accolades they receive from men whether in the Church or out...

It will be based upon the relationship between them and the Lord, and those who truly have a good relationship will be those who SERVE others and SEEK TO PUT OTHERS FIRST rather than seek glory themselves.  In a heaven where everyone seeks others above their own gratifications will truly be a great place to be...and though we still will have friendships and families, it will be within that higher sphere of love and treating others than what we see most of the time here on this Mortal Earth...

 

In my opinion...of course.

 

Edited by JohnsonJones

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1 hour ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

D&C 130:1 When the Savior shall appear we shall see him as he is. We shall see that he is a man like ourselves.
2 And that same sociality which exists among us here will exist among us there, only it will be coupled with eternal glory, which glory we do not now enjoy.

So, does this include the ignoring of the quiet and the ascension of the popular cliques? Sorry, but hanging out with some of the people in my ward sounds like hell to me.

The conditions spoken of here are post-judgement, meaning that all flaws will have been revealed and addressed. That's not to say people become perfected over night but I don't think it will be easy to simply ignore our imperfections either. Things will definitely be better there, at least in the Celestial kingdom. No promises about the other kingdoms though. 

But I don't think this was the actual point being made in these verses. I think the point being made is that relationships persist and continue to develop in the eternities. Many religions have a view that the afterlife is something completely foreign to this life but that is not the case. Evil may be overcome but the good things of this life continue on.

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People won't be forced into becoming perfect. Rather, we'll still have the same attitudes, demeanors, and even free will we have here on Earth. 

This means that there will be people who will deny Christ to his face. 

But at the same time, you can bet there will be a lot of people who come to realize that perhaps they should take it down a notch. 

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On 10/10/2021 at 11:18 AM, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

2 And that same sociality which exists among us here will exist among us there, only it will be coupled with eternal glory, which glory we do not now enjoy.

I wonder about my dad.  Cantankerous, Irreligious to the very end, but a good man.  As he was getting his affairs in order and preparing to be buried in the Veterans National Cemetery in Santa Fe, they needed to know which "emblem of belief" he wanted on his headstone.  He had to fight through endless calls and red tape, in order to have no emblem.  So he died and I did his temple work.  I honestly don't know what he'll chose.  On the other side of the veil, he might finally have received what he needed to bend his knee and confess, or he might be totally happy moving about trying to organize the spirit-body version of a poker game.  But the thought of him keeping his "same sociality" comforts me, because that means he'll be off blessing the lives of others with his various proclivities.

Quote

So, does this include the ignoring of the quiet and the ascension of the popular cliques? Sorry, but hanging out with some of the people in my ward sounds like hell to me.

I'm a huge fan of the notion that there will be exactly zero, squat, nada hard feelings in our exalted state.  So, if you just can't for the life of you figure out how to love everyone that ticks you off down here on earth, you don't need to worry about hanging out with them in exhaltation, because you won't be there.  Justice is on God, but forgiveness is on you.

I am by no ways minimizing any evil done to you by fellow humans, and I have some small experience with the evil that "good people" can do. 

Edited by NeuroTypical

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On 10/10/2021 at 1:18 PM, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

Sorry, but hanging out with some of the people in my ward sounds like hell to me.

Well, they might not like you either, to be fair. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like my local ward very much, and they assuredly share the opinion of me.  Sometimes it’s really hard when you do not look like or act like a stereotypical LDS. 
 

But, me not liking them doesn't mean I hope they don’t get to Heaven. Yes, sharing eternity with one another is not a selling point for membership sometimes. It’s good to remember that everyone, even people you dislike, are probably trying their best to be decent people. Sadly though, being a jerk is universal and we’ve all met jerks in our church. 

I’m 100% confident that in the Celestial Kingdom our personality quirks and disagreements will be settled. That guy you hate here might be your best friend up in the Kingdom. 
 

We’ll be shocked to see who is among us in the afterlife. And, more importantly, we’ll be shocked to see who isn’t there. 
 

To be clear bro, I sort of see your point. There are members who I don’t want to spend five minutes with, much less eternity. I know they say the same way about me. Hopefully we’ll all be able to put our swords down in the next life. 
 

And we’ll all be Gators fans up there. 

Edited by LDSGator

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7 hours ago, LDSGator said:

That guy you hate here might be your best friend up in the Kingdom. 

Well, since @mirkwood is slow to post, guess I'd better take this one.

[achem]

More wishful thinking Gator?

[takes bow]

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20 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

And you wonder why you are going to hell.

Given that we share interests and senses of humor, I’m very confident you’ll be in the next cell over. 

Edited by LDSGator

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20 hours ago, mirkwood said:

And you wonder why you are going to hell.

I am of the same mind of C.S. Lewis in this matter.  No one goes to hell.  But a lot, willingly invite hell in.

 

The Traveler

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On 10/10/2021 at 12:18 PM, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

D&C 130:1 When the Savior shall appear we shall see him as he is. We shall see that he is a man like ourselves.
2 And that same sociality which exists among us here will exist among us there, only it will be coupled with eternal glory, which glory we do not now enjoy.

So, does this include the ignoring of the quiet and the ascension of the popular cliques? Sorry, but hanging out with some of the people in my ward sounds like hell to me.

There is actually some truth to what you say.  But not in the way you think.

Definition of Sociality: The "links" which we call "relationshops" between people. 

People we know here, we will also know there.  Those we love here, we will love there.  And, yes, if you were the kind of person who always fell into cliques and shunned everyone who disagreed with you here,... well, you get the picture.

But to obtain the glory spoken of in the unbolded portion of your quote, we must learn to love everyone, not as "somebody that we used to know" but as brothers and sisters.  If we don't know how to treat each other as brothers and sisters here, we will not consider each other as brother and sister there.  And if we can't consider each other to be brothers and sisters, we won't have that promise of Eternal Glory.

Edited by Carborendum

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On 10/10/2021 at 10:18 AM, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

D&C 130:1 When the Savior shall appear we shall see him as he is. We shall see that he is a man like ourselves.
2 And that same sociality which exists among us here will exist among us there, only it will be coupled with eternal glory, which glory we do not now enjoy.

So, does this include the ignoring of the quiet and the ascension of the popular cliques? Sorry, but hanging out with some of the people in my ward sounds like hell to me.

I guess you missed the part that testifies those who are worthy of the Celestial Kingdom will possess the fullness of eternal glory, which means they will be humble, meek and lowly in heart, the very opposite of arrogant, cliquish snobs.

Is your post a joke?

Edited by Jersey Boy

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On 11/8/2021 at 9:41 AM, Carborendum said:

There is actually some truth to what you say.  But not in the way you think.

Definition of Sociality: The "links" which we call "relationshops" between people. 

People we know here, we will also know there.  Those we love here, we will love there.  And, yes, if you were the kind of person who always fell into cliques and shunned everyone who disagreed with you here,... well, you get the picture.

But to obtain the glory spoken of in the unbolded portion of your quote, we must learn to love everyone, not as "somebody that we used to know" but as brothers and sisters.  If we don't know how to treat each other as brothers and sisters here, we will not consider each other as brother and sister there.  And if we can't consider each other to be brothers and sisters, we won't have that promise of Eternal Glory.

I wonder if there are more possibilities than you are considering.  I agree that scripture tells us that the same spirit that we give way to in this life will have power over us in the next but we are also instructed that many in this life are withheld from the truth because they know not where to find it - or as Jesus observed from the cross - Forgive them for they know not what they do.  I am not sure to what point we exercise our agency when we are beguiled by a unclean spirit and do not know what we are doing.

 

The Traveler

 

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I have discovered through Spirit-led introspection that when I feel as though interactions with my fellow man, or fellow saints, is "hellish", this is my natural man reacting rather than the side of me striving to become more like Christ. It is a way of exposing my own weaknesses and need to repent and change. After all, given the far more vast disparity in righteousness or even social affability between any of us and Christ, yet he allows his Spirit to be constantly with us and may even consider us as "friends". He is our exemplar. 

Thanks, Wade

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