NeuroTypical

The church doesn't discipline or excommunicate anyone any more.

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Interesting article from a month ago:

https://www.thechurchnews.com/members/2021-09-29/general-handbook-terms-no-longer-used-226551

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Repentance and Church membership council terms

The language in Chapter 32: Repentance and Church Membership Councils was adjusted to have a more ministerial tone and be more precise and clear. Terminology that had a legalistic tone was removed. 

For example: 

  • “Probation” has been changed to “membership restrictions.”
  • Terms such as “jurisdiction” and “investigation” have been removed.
  • “Discipline” has been changed to “restrictions.”
  • “Disciplinary council” has been changed to “membership council.” (The term “disciplinary council” presumed a need for “discipline” before the council had been held.)
  • “Disfellowship” has been changed to “formal membership restrictions.” (“Disfellowship” connotes shunning and withholding fellowship, which is contrary to the intent of the action taken.)  
  • “Excommunication” has been changed to “withdrawal of membership.” 

A new introduction to the chapter outlines the doctrine of repentance. “The desire there was to make sure that the emphasis is on repentance — not discipline,” Elder Perkins said. 

President Russell M. Nelson taught in the April 2019 general conference: “Too many people consider repentance as punishment — something to be avoided except in the most serious circumstances. But this feeling of being penalized is engendered by Satan. He tries to block us from looking to Jesus Christ, who stands with open arms, hoping and willing to heal, forgive, cleanse, strengthen, purify and sanctify us. …

“Repentance is not an event; it is a process. It is the key to happiness and peace of mind. When coupled with faith, repentance opens our access to the power of the Atonement of Jesus Christ.”

 

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On 10/15/2021 at 7:29 PM, NeuroTypical said:

As I sort through my opinions on this article, one thought that rises to the top is "we ain't Catholics".

The Catholics would say a Rose by any other name is STILL a ROSE.  Whether they call it it excommunication or membership withdrawal...still same thing.

Though, they have funny things too...prime idea is indulgences.  Still a thing, though how they are administered and seen has changed...still the same idea as before even if the way they are seen or applied have changed.

There's more in common with Catholicism than some would think.

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17 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Bah.  Give me that old time religion . . .

 

I think this is exactly the kind of sentiment the Church is trying to get a way from. I remember years ago I was a councilor in an elder's quorum presidency in a ysa stake and attended a priesthood leadership meeting. During the breakout part they spent the time teaching us about excommunication. At first I was totally befuddled as to why they would focus on that topic. But by the end I was struck by how great the mercy of the Lord is and it's manifestation in what I previously had deemed a punishment. Everything in that article pertains to the doctrine of repentance and the Church appears to be going out of their way to remove any negative sentiment we may have in regards to it. 

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6 hours ago, laronius said:

Everything in that article pertains to the doctrine of repentance and the Church appears to be going out of their way to remove any negative sentiment we may have in regards to it. 

I'm glad for the change.  I've always thought "disfellowshipment" was an awkward term, because in practice, it meant "brother so-and-so is going through a hard time, so we're all going to go out of our way to love bomb him 24/7 so he knows he's loved".  

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On 10/15/2021 at 10:22 PM, NeuroTypical said:

Wow... my all time record for getting myself kicked out of Christian churches was two.... in just over one month back in 1991.....

The Worldwide Church of God that I had been baptized into in 1979.... and the Philadelphia Church of God that was an offshoot of the WWCG....

This is very, very interesting news and I may be in contact with the local LDS ward when we sell our house and make it to Mississauga or that area....

 

 

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I was dis-invited from our local Mega church's "Are mormons Christan" study group.  I went to every class, and when they asked me a question, I answered.  Behold portions of the subsequent email exchange:

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Has anything been announced on the 2nd session of the "Is Mormonism Christian" class?  I'd like to attend, assuming you'd still have me.
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Thank you for you interest in this class.  The purpose of this class, however, is to share our differences with evangelical Christians, and teach them how to dialogue with members of your church in a Christ-like way.  Both of us are more than willing to answer any questions you may have through email, but we would prefer to do this in our own time with you, not during class time.  This will allow the class to ask open and honest questions without offending anyone. The purpose is not to "defend" or "debate" matters of the faith, rather educate people on the differences.
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I will respect your decision.  Hey, it's your class - you get to structure it as you like!

 

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14 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

our local Mega church's 

Most of the megachurches are all frosting and no cake. Slick presentation, fun songs, lovely people….and a pastor whose flock is 10,000 people so he’ll never get a chance to get to know your concerns, personality, etc.  And that’s indicative of everyone there.
 

I’m not even talking about their lack of a substantial theology and how wishy washy they are on what they believe. 

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16 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

I was dis-invited from our local Mega church's "Are mormons Christan" study group.  I went to every class, and when they asked me a question, I answered.  Behold portions of the subsequent email exchange:

 

I've seen it happen before to where people invite members of the church to "debate", assume that they'll just crush us by spamming us with tired old counter-cult materials they got in a bookstore somewhere and outdated pop culture stereotypes. 

When they realize that no, we actually know what we're talking about and can even counter their arguments, they'll start freaking out. This wasn't the plan, we're not cooperating, and they have no idea what to do next. 

Rather than face the reality that they didn't know what they were doing, it's just easier for them to shut the door on us and lock us out so that they can maintain the sanctity of their echo chambers, all the while running damage control to ensure that nobody tries to follow us out. 

It's not just an issue with religion, either. You'll see it in any discipline, field, or even social media forum where someone who was so utterly self-confident in their supposed superiority cannot compete in the Marketplace of Ideas and throws an absolute fit because of it. 

I'm dealing with this a lot right now as an entertainment writer, with the "elite" in many forms of entertainment (such as movies and comic books) losing their minds because the general public is starting to reject the increasingly polarized and poorly-written material so many companies are putting out and the "elites" can't understand why anyone would do that. These elites feel that they know what's best for the public and what the public should be consuming, so whenever their offerings fail and content from outside of the mainstream (or that otherwise goes against the elites) succeeds they panic and demand that the rules be changed to favor them while denigrating anyone who doesn't join the bandwagon. 

Right now, for example, "Ghostbusters: Afterlife" is on track to absolutely annihilate the 2016 reboot in terms of box office take. The film was a love letter to the fandom while also setting the stage for a new generation of characters to come in, and people are responding by buying ticket after ticket; my local theater actually has three of its eight screens showing it right now. But because the film repudiates the 2016 movie in every possible fashion, the 2016 film's Hollywood backers are furious and unleashing pure venom on anyone who likes the new movie. 

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On 11/23/2021 at 2:22 PM, LDSGator said:

Need to try harder bro. Those are rookie numbers. 😉 

Well..... I certainly am in an interesting situation at the moment I must admit......

I am facing not being able to return to work on December 1, 2021 but I was given the option to take

the Janssen vaccination which is tempting I must admit due to graphene oxide NOT being on the list of ingredients.

I am considering a run down to Florida but I may well pop into one of the local L.D.S. wards this Sunday for prayer and advice?!

I am thinking of a way to turn L.D.S. missionaries in several wards into reporters and audio-video journalists if they are willing to

take on my rather interesting case?

"The Muddy Water Experiment film production cooperative proposed....."

 

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and we might just be able to save millions of lives over the coming years?

©by Dennis Patrick Tate 2020

I want to sell the following concept for one dollar to one hundred Latter day Saints with a background in medicine who are willing to work with the local LDS wards in the area where the doctor lives who is in this film. (One hundred Latter day Saints each owning one percent of the voting shares in the film production cooperative). An interesting spin on this would be to have one hundred LDS women and members of the LDS Relief Society that is the largest women's organization of that type on earth.

A physician in Texas reports treating over three hundred high risk patients who already had COVID 19 with hydroxychloroquine ..... AND SHE LOST ZERO OF THEM!!!!!!!!

You need to know the specific dosages that she used for these patients.

You need to know the dosages of the other treatments that she combined the hydroxychloroquine with. If I remember correctly zinc was one of them.

I want to use the LDS because I am kind of amazed by the level of organization that they have and to the degree that I keep running into Latter day Saints through the internet even on these discussion forums and...... the Latter day Saints did do an astonishing amount of relief work after Hurricane Katrina.... that is just a fact of history. I also am wanting to put this in front of Latter day Saints because they would tend to be suspicious of the specific religious beliefs of the doctor in question but......... they also tend to be people who could realize that her beliefs regarding religion is irrelevant when it comes to the fact that she may well have successfully treated over three hundred high risk patients and lost none of them.

 

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Well I am certainly in an interesting situation right now.....
I am researching the Janssen Covid 19 vaccination for Canada and I have to admit that
I am impressed that graphene oxide is NOT one of the ingredients in that one!

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So... although I will not be able to return to work on December 1, 2021 it looks like I could go and take the Janssen vaccine and be able to return to work fourteen days later.... which is certainly tempting I must admit. I am thankful that my employer let me know about this option.

 

Edited by DennisTate
add a link to explain further....

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On 11/23/2021 at 9:54 PM, NeuroTypical said:

I was dis-invited from our local Mega church's "Are mormons Christan" study group.  I went to every class, and when they asked me a question, I answered.  Behold portions of the subsequent email exchange:

 

I have a poll going on this very topic in a secular forum and you L.D.S. are doing very well so far.....

I was one of the Yes votes as you can see by the *

I was banned from ChristianForums .com largely due to my opinion that you L.D.S. truly do have the Holy Spirit.  

 

http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/latter-day-saints-the-mormons-my-analysis-so-far.536387/page-7#post-1073091899

Latter Day Saints, The Mormons, my analysis so far!

 

?

Are Latter Days Saints, Mormons, Christians?

  1. *

    Yes

     
    14 vote(s)
    58.3%
  2.  

    No

     
    9 vote(s)
    37.5%
  3.  

    Perhaps.... .I will research this further.

     
    1 vote(s)
    4.2%
Edited by DennisTate
add comment for clarity

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Assisting USA Jews, (I assume especially Jews who dress Jewish and thus are targets during a time of persecution), to move from the USA up to Canada for a time before making full fledged Aliyah to Israel is something that Latter day Saints can take the lead on but you will want to cooperate as much as you can with Pentecostals, Charismatic Catholics and Holy Spirit led Christians from all denominations who believe the scriptures about what must happen in The Holy Land.
 
 
"Greater unity between Latter day Saints and Pentecostals .... "
 

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On 10/16/2021 at 7:44 PM, JohnsonJones said:

The Catholics would say a Rose by any other name is STILL a ROSE.  Whether they call it it excommunication or membership withdrawal...still same thing.

To me, "excommunication" suggest a complete severing of interactions, whereas "membership withdrawal" simply suggests diminished responsibilities. So, to my mind, there is a difference between the thorn and the rose bloom. ;)

I like the change in terminology because it shifts the focus away from punitive reaction to faith-promoting action. 

Thanks, Wade 

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