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Baldwin, gun safety, freedoms and responsibilities

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15 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

Mr. Baldwin is also one of the producers.  He is the one who, ultimately, is in charge of who is hired and other items such as safety on the set.  There had been several such incidents already on the set and much of the techs and groups had walked off in protest to the safety going on. 

I think with that in mind, a manslaughter charge probably should have been considered (though not necessarily prosecuted until everything is investigated), but I am not the one who is in charge of such things.

I tend to agree that there is a lot of irony with this case but again I have seen no evidence that Mr. Baldwin did anything against the law or for anything he can be held criminally liable for.   Usually there are more than one producer.  Also I am told that usually the primary of producers is the funding.  So anyone with connections to funding are often given the title of producer for their efforts.  I am sure that Mr. Baldwin has lot of money connections.  I only see Baldwin having legal responsibility if he knew or designed or somehow had cognitive connections to what went wrong.  I am not a lawyer but I think this will be quite difficult to prove.

The local sheriff has stated that this is being criminally investigated.  I am not sure if this is being said to prevent individuals from with holding testimony - which could indicate a conspiracy.   If for any reason Mr. Baldwin did not like someone on the set - I am sure he would have no problem getting rid of them.  There is a lot of unsettled stuff being leaked - So I wonder if something was deliberate - which would be illegal.  

My interest in seeing how this plays out because many Hollywood types are for gun control.  What this proves is that gun control laws is likely not the answer but rather that firearm education of the public in general is much better.  I am obviously prejudice in that I am an advocate of firearm education as a reqirement - but I am also of the notion that states (not federal) ought to control education.

 

The Traveler

Edited by Traveler

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Yep.

17 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

The burden he has to carry for the rest of his life is staggering. Just ask Ray Mancini. 

Or the thousand or so parents every year, whose child somehow got hands on a gun and accidentally kills someone with it.  (Give or take a thousand or two, depending on who you ask and how they measure it.)

 

Edited by NeuroTypical

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1 minute ago, NeuroTypical said:

Yep.

Or the thousand or so parents every year, whose child somehow got hands on a gun and accidentally kills someone with it.  (Give or take a thousand or two, depending on who you ask and how they measure it.)

 

Oh, agree. 

I think this is “just” a case of a horrific accident. I’m not sure anything will be accomplished by prosecuting him. 

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We humans try to do our earthly justice for 3 reasons:

- To 'rehabilitate' the bad or dumb guy so he won't be bad or dumb any more.
- To deter others from doing similar things, because they see how much it sucks to be prosecuted.
- To provide justice for the victims.

I don't know enough about the girl's loved ones, to speak to that third one.

Edited by NeuroTypical

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12 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

We humans try to do our earthly justice for 3 reasons:

- To 'rehabilitate' the bad or dumb guy so he won't be bad or dumb any more.
- To deter others from doing similar things, because they see how much it sucks to be prosecuted.
- To provide justice for the victims.

I don't know enough about the girl's loved ones, to speak to that third one.

Understand. It’s a complex situation. 
 

Do you remember the nightclub fire in Rhode Island? Killed many people, over 100.

 

The owners of the club were sent to jail - which I thought was a case of the state just looking for someone to prosecute. I hope Baldwin doesn’t become the fall guy just to quench our thirst for “justice”. 

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1 hour ago, LDSGator said:

Understand. It’s a complex situation. 
 

Do you remember the nightclub fire in Rhode Island? Killed many people, over 100.

 

The owners of the club were sent to jail - which I thought was a case of the state just looking for someone to prosecute. I hope Baldwin doesn’t become the fall guy just to quench our thirst for “justice”. 

The Station fire was a *very* complicated situation. 

1. The foam used for sound insulation was *not* rated for fire safety and so never should have been used for that purpose. 

2. One of the doors to the outside opened inward, a violation of fire codes

3. The manager failed to indicate that pyrotechnics would be used during the show, and so this prevented the usual safety checks that would have taken place. 

The pyro used was set up to shoot flames to a height far above what the building's ceiling was. Thus, the ceiling and the foam - which was known to be flammable - instantly combusted. 

As a result, the band's manager and one of the two owners went to jail for the incident. 

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14 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

The Station fire was a *very* complicated situation. 

1. The foam used for sound insulation was *not* rated for fire safety and so never should have been used for that purpose. 

2. One of the doors to the outside opened inward, a violation of fire codes

3. The manager failed to indicate that pyrotechnics would be used during the show, and so this prevented the usual safety checks that would have taken place. 

The pyro used was set up to shoot flames to a height far above what the building's ceiling was. Thus, the ceiling and the foam - which was known to be flammable - instantly combusted. 

As a result, the band's manager and one of the two owners went to jail for the incident. 

Yes, no argument there whatsoever. Agree 100%. 
 

Remember seeing Jeff and Michael Derderian in the aftermath? They were the epitome of “broken” men. In total shock and abject horror over what had happened. What did putting them in jail accomplish? Nothing, except in a situation like that someone has to go jail, I guess. To this day I still feel like their prosecution was meaningless. They paid enough, even for their “negligence”. 

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To be clear, I get it. Yes,  I’m much more sympathetic to liberals on criminal justice reform, but I’m not naive. Some criminals need hard time in a tough prison. But I have to be fair. Big difference between “criminal” and “scapegoat”. 
 

Also, like I mentioned before, Baldwin is a wretched person. His voice message to his own daughter is appalling. So I get no pleasure from this one at all. 

Edited by LDSGator

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On 10/25/2021 at 3:31 PM, mirkwood said:

ANYONE handling a firearm is responsible to handle it safely.  That includes press checking it to see if it is loaded.

AFAIK this was a single action revolver. Those guns have a loading gate behind the cylinder and any one checking the gun via that gate would have seen the back of a primed cartridge.  From that angle there would be no way to tell the type of round loaded in the revolver. One could check the gun looking at the front, but then one would have to point the barrel at oneself. And depending on lighting, it would be uncertain whether a live round would be recognized. 
 

I believe that press checking involves semi automatic pistols. 

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14 hours ago, mrmarklin said:

AFAIK this was a single action revolver. Those guns have a loading gate behind the cylinder and any one checking the gun via that gate would have seen the back of a primed cartridge.  From that angle there would be no way to tell the type of round loaded in the revolver. One could check the gun looking at the front, but then one would have to point the barrel at oneself. And depending on lighting, it would be uncertain whether a live round would be recognized. 
 

I believe that press checking involves semi automatic pistols. 

Then you open the cylinder and pull the bullets out to verify they are blanks.

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Basic rule taught to our children: Don't point a gun at anything you don't intend to destroy.   So, if the movie required an actor pointing a gun at a camera with a person running the camera, there would have to be, at the very, very, absolute least, some sort of shared understanding and agreed-upon process for every time a gun was to be handled.  Whether prop gun, antique firearm, blank gun, or any other designation they had.  Everyone involved in handling the things should have been fully trained on the process.

Blank ammo could have been painted blue, or something.
Live ammo could have existed on the set in only one box, held by the designated box holder, who would be the only person able to load a gun, or something. 
A series of checks the armorer would go through to verify the status of a gun, before handing it to the actor.  Every time.  No exceptions. 
A series of checks the actor would go through, after being handed the gun.  Every time.  No exceptions. 

Either safe handling procedures weren't in place, or they weren't followed.  The result is someone is dead, and another injured, and a national crapshow as everyone gets to yell about it.

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