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Backroads

Kyle Rittenhouse

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16 hours ago, Traveler said:

I am of a slightly different opinion - So I am interested in your thinking.  But first my thinking.  Prejudice is a means of coming to a conclusion before you know any or all the reasons (or in essence the parameters).   I think there are two kinds of prejudice.  The first is a simple matter of ignorance.  In essence dealing with something you do not understand.  There is a lot of that in life.  The second type in my mind is a next lever and is a prejudice based on hate.  Ignorance will cause us to prejudice in concerns for our own safety - it is a form of defense.  Hateful prejudice is beyond self preservation.  It is an offensive act to do harm towards others - even and especially when anything to do with self is not threatened.  

Ignorance is overcome with experience and knowledge.  But hate is much more difficult to change or resolve.  Also hate is a learned prejudice - sometimes it is learned by outside teaching where there is sufficient ignorance to resist elements that are false and misleading.

It is my experience that 90% of the prejudice I have encountered is based in ignorance.  Hate is a prejudice that seems to have to burn itself out before it can be dealt with.

 

The Traveler

I've been online 20+ years at this point, and have dealt with a wide cross-section of people in that time. 

What I've frequently encountered is that the more "woke" a person claims to be, the more likely they are to presume that women, members of certain racial groups, and members of other groups, are "completely and permanently incapable" of overcoming whatever they feel as bias in the system. Thus, they presume, these groups need their help. 

That "completely and permanently incapable" part? 

Dig into it, and you'll basically see that these individuals legitimately believe that members of these groups are helpless, with no resources or natural talent available to them.

Yeah.

A lot of these folks basically think that unless they intervene then the people they believe they're intervening on behalf of will never be able to succeed. 

...Unless of course that person succeeds outside of the "allowed" parameters (re: with help from the "woke" people) or calls out the "woke" person for their latent bigotry, in which case the "woke" type starts accusing the individual of being a traitor to their group identity or even presuming that the person is a "sock puppet" account for a white person. 

It's as ugly as it is foolish and based on ignorance. 

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34 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

I've been online 20+ years at this point, and have dealt with a wide cross-section of people in that time. 

What I've frequently encountered is that the more "woke" a person claims to be, the more likely they are to presume that women, members of certain racial groups, and members of other groups, are "completely and permanently incapable" of overcoming whatever they feel as bias in the system. Thus, they presume, these groups need their help. 

That "completely and permanently incapable" part? 

Dig into it, and you'll basically see that these individuals legitimately believe that members of these groups are helpless, with no resources or natural talent available to them.

Yeah.

A lot of these folks basically think that unless they intervene then the people they believe they're intervening on behalf of will never be able to succeed. 

...Unless of course that person succeeds outside of the "allowed" parameters (re: with help from the "woke" people) or calls out the "woke" person for their latent bigotry, in which case the "woke" type starts accusing the individual of being a traitor to their group identity or even presuming that the person is a "sock puppet" account for a white person. 

It's as ugly as it is foolish and based on ignorance. 

I bolded part of your text - Are you saying from your experience that (ALL) woke individuals have misplaced compassion?

 

In my communications with other - often I find that when someone makes a definitive statement about others that it is most often more about them than "the others" or that when I attempt to drill down - they really do not know all that much what they are talking about.  But when I ask question to better understand their view they get upset at both me and the question.  There are always exceptions and I fine the exceptions to be the most interesting.   

I am beginning to think that divine compassion for other is really more about the ability to change our opinions about someone else (including understanding their opinion) than it is to be able to fix them.  The few "woke" individuals I have encountered are somewhat ignorant and interestingly have never been in the military are a close to someone in the military that has seen combat (or someone who serves as a policeman).  I would really like to talk to someone woke in the pentagon or any leadership of our military.

 

The Traveler

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8 minutes ago, Traveler said:

I bolded part of your text - Are you saying from your experience that (ALL) woke individuals have misplaced compassion?

 

In my communications with other - often I find that when someone makes a definitive statement about others that it is most often more about them than "the others" or that when I attempt to drill down - they really do not know all that much what they are talking about.  But when I ask question to better understand their view they get upset at both me and the question.  There are always exceptions and I fine the exceptions to be the most interesting.   

I am beginning to think that divine compassion for other is really more about the ability to change our opinions about someone else (including understanding their opinion) than it is to be able to fix them.  The few "woke" individuals I have encountered are somewhat ignorant and interestingly have never been in the military are a close to someone in the military that has seen combat (or someone who serves as a policeman).  I would really like to talk to someone woke in the pentagon or any leadership of our military.

 

The Traveler

If you'll note, I said "a lot", not "all". 

That is, it's a recurring theme among many of the people I speak with. 

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42 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

If you'll note, I said "a lot", not "all". 

That is, it's a recurring theme among many of the people I speak with. 

Those that are most fixed - do you have any inclination why they think so?  What is the most common denominator?   I am wondering how your experiences align with mine.  For example, what kind of work or labor were they involved in doing?  Especially in their youth?

 

The Traveler

 

The Traveler

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13 minutes ago, Traveler said:

Those that are most fixed - do you have any inclination why they think so?  What is the most common denominator?   I am wondering how your experiences align with mine.  For example, what kind of work or labor were they involved in doing?  Especially in their youth?

 

The Traveler

 

The Traveler

It’s also a two way street. If you expect people to listen to you, then you have to listen to them too. While it’s noble to be in the armed forces or to be a cop, it doesn't mean you have all the answers to every problem in life. After all, there are corrupt cops and Timothy McViegh was in the army. 

Edited by LDSGator

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1 hour ago, Traveler said:

Those that are most fixed - do you have any inclination why they think so?  What is the most common denominator?   I am wondering how your experiences align with mine.  For example, what kind of work or labor were they involved in doing?  Especially in their youth?

 

The Traveler

 

The Traveler

That's the thing... they refuse to consider other world views. 

The best guess I can give is that somewhere, at some point, someone they trusted filled their head with notions about different groups and they never thought to question what they were being told as doing so would force them to question who told it to them. 

Rather, they just take it for granted that these groups need third parties to intervene. 

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But I can admit that the neighbor who just filmed it might not deserve life with no parole.

@LDSGator this is what I thought at first BUT apparently, the neighbor did more than just filming.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/22/us/ahmaud-arbery-william-roddie-bryan.html

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Suzie said:

But I can admit that the neighbor who just filmed it might not deserve life with no parole.

@LDSGator this is what I thought at first BUT apparently, the neighbor did more than just filming.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/22/us/ahmaud-arbery-william-roddie-bryan.html

 

 

Ahh, thanks. To some degree it doesn't matter anymore. He’s rotting in jail where he belongs. 

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5 hours ago, Ironhold said:

That's the thing... they refuse to consider other world views. 

 

The right does this too, to be fair. In fact, the uncomfortable truth is that most people aren't strong enough to engage in meaningful self-critique.
 

Human nature is to choose what to believe then look for reasons to believe that and ignore all other evidence. Or, just believe what your parents did and do the same thing. Is this everyone? Of course not. Is it most people? Yup. 

Edited by LDSGator

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