A curmudgeonly issue: Expensive stuff on Giving Trees


Backroads
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1 hour ago, Traveler said:

I am sad that many parents raise their children to ask for non-essential gifts for Christmas and teach of a Santa Clause that rewards them while other suffer and that such is part of the joy to the world and peace on earth and good will towards men.  But for the most part I am encouraged by this season we call Christmas and glad of it.

 

The Traveler

You'd hate my house at Christmas, then.

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5 hours ago, Fether said:

 

I meant to ask @Backroads what specifically was being asked for, it may. It be as unreasonable as they think. Maybe just miscommunication.

It's a general complaint. It's hard to help people when their wants exceed my budget. In some ways it seems belittling to just give them other stuff. 

I wonder if it's an end to the era of giving trees and Secret Santas.

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5 hours ago, Manners Matter said:

The giving/angel tree used to be something I was happy to be a part of but some of the requests I've seen over the years (with various organizations) has soured my attitude. If there were guidelines, though, it would definitely help. My take:

~ I don't think it's a bad thing to teach kids that "competing with the Jones'" is not the goal - even at Christmas.

~ What harm is there in helping kids understand that they have it pretty good already and be grateful for it? (leading up to Christmas, read stories of those in South Africa who's toy is a push car they made out of wire from the dumpster or how the girls use their imaginations and 'play house' for their fun, or the kid in South America who is thrilled with a piece of string or the 'little house on the prairie' scenarios where they were thrilled with an orange and a few pieces of candy). The point being, first teach gratitude and perspective not encourage an entitled attitude.

~ Kids need to be taught the difference between needs and wants and that the first comes before the latter.

~ I like the idea of kids only receiving 3 gifts and that follows the read, need, want, wear idea (some of these should be coming from grandparents so only 1 gift is needed for them on the tree)

~ No request should exceed $5 per year of age.

~ If they want more expensive things, they can earn and save the money themselves. That's the best way for them to learn the value of a dollar and help them appreciate what they receive from others.

One event I saw this season was a community group. You know, neighbors. And I happen to live in the cheapest city in Utah. I'm sure some people have money, but either most don't have a ton or we have a heck of a lot of secret millionairies living in tiny WWII homes. 

Anywho, the lady spearheading the thing made it very clear from the getgo she wanted to get people together to serve those truly struggling providing Christmas. And, recognizing she did not have any charities or businesses on board but was pretty much working with the neighbors, set parameters: a need, a clothing item, a want under$25.

Immediately one woman said her four children needed a hoverboard and a laptop and a smartphone EACH. (Her argument was that she homeschooled and the computers would be very helpful. Not a bad argument, but still, pricey). Had to be gently reminded of the parameters.

Then, a good month into organizing the project, with lists made according to the aforementioned parameters, reports were coming through that those requesting the modest lists suddenly changed their requests as soon as they had a donor. Back were the computers and hoverboards and game systems.

I found luck at a local school that had a wide range of prices, but it seems liek there's a greater chance of finding ornaments for dollars in the multiple hundreds than a something simpler.

Yet in other news, a guy was telling me (not bragging, just sharing his pet hobby) that he always sought out the kid asking for a skateboard. Guy was a total skater, and actually put aside money to purchase that Giving Tree kid an awesome quality skateboard in hopes he would remain in the sport for years to come. That put a smile on my face. 

 

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8 minutes ago, Backroads said:

It's a general complaint. It's hard to help people when their wants exceed my budget. In some ways it seems belittling to just give them other stuff. 

I wonder if it's an end to the era of giving trees and Secret Santas.

Belittling maybe. But that is the unfortunate side of charity. You offer what you can. You shouldn’t be held at gun point to provide what someone wants.

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1 hour ago, Traveler said:

I am sad that many parents raise their children to ask for non-essential gifts for Christmas and teach of a Santa Clause that rewards them while other suffer and that such is part of the joy to the world and peace on earth and good will towards men.  But for the most part I am encouraged by this season we call Christmas and glad of it.

 

The Traveler

One of my favorite holiday stories is The Christmas Chronicles by Tim Slover. I like listening to the radio show each year. It's its own Santa mythos, and part of the early origin was the Santa guy making toys to not just reward the kids in the village who helped get things back to a sense of normalcy after the plague but also the kids that just needed a little something. Which was all kids. 

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6 minutes ago, Fether said:

Belittling maybe. But that is the unfortunate side of charity. You offer what you can. You shouldn’t be held at gun point to provide what someone wants.

Kind of my case against Christmas lists. I get the purpose of Giving Trees and the like, but when you reach a certain age it seems ridiculous to hand over a Christmas list.

My husband and I actually struggle with gifts for each other because we're adults and if we really want something we'll find a way to buy it. 

The fact that gifts is my very least love language doesn't help. 

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41 minutes ago, Backroads said:

Kind of my case against Christmas lists. I get the purpose of Giving Trees and the like, but when you reach a certain age it seems ridiculous to hand over a Christmas list.

My husband and I actually struggle with gifts for each other because we're adults and if we really want something we'll find a way to buy it. 

The fact that gifts is my very least love language doesn't help. 

I find experiences are the best gifts for me and my wife. Things you cannot buy. 
 

for example, I will take the kids hiking for a day so she can have a day to herself. Or she will take the kids to see grandma and grandpa for a day so I can play video games with my siblings and high school friends.

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2 hours ago, Fether said:

Maybe it’s a generational thing. I don’t ever remember opening a gift that was an “essential”. My Christmas gifts tend to be toys, new clothes, fancy socks, candy or things related to my hobbies.

Well, for me - one year I opened a training bra. Another year a slip for under my skirts. (I'm younger than 50 btw)

Kids should be given opportunities to learn to be gracious and thankful for what they receive even if it's not something fun or exciting.

Edited by Manners Matter
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1 hour ago, Backroads said:

It's a general complaint. It's hard to help people when their wants exceed my budget. In some ways it seems belittling to just give them other stuff. 

I wonder if it's an end to the era of giving trees and Secret Santas.

I don't think it's the end.  I think they just aren't all going to be filled, or filled by what they want.  For example, I put put used bikes on our "free" page.  I was contacted by someone that runs the giving tree asking if I would hold them for her, since someone had bicycles as their gift.   I took them down, cleaned them up, and let her have them.   Some kids will be getting used bikes from the giving tree.   

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1 hour ago, Backroads said:

 

Then, a good month into organizing the project, with lists made according to the aforementioned parameters, reports were coming through that those requesting the modest lists suddenly changed their requests as soon as they had a donor. Back were the computers and hoverboards and game systems.

 

That is sad and frankly someone milking the system.  I'd give them a gift card to Wal Mart for the amount that was allotted to their family.

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2 hours ago, Fether said:

Maybe it’s a generational thing. I don’t ever remember opening a gift that was an “essential”. My Christmas gifts tend to be toys, new clothes, fancy socks, candy or things related to my hobbies.

Maybe it is generational. My Christmases and birthdays often included fun, non-essential toys and other gifts like that. But we commonly got socks and underwear and other such necessities.

I guess I object to an expectation of luxuries and toys. To my nose, that reeks of an entitlement mentality. I concede I may be missing something from the context of the rising generation, but I probably will not change my mind until and unless someone can explain to me, in terms I can understand, why such feelings do not constitute entitlement (or why this kind of entitlement is acceptable).

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2 minutes ago, Vort said:

Maybe it is generational. My Christmases and birthdays often included fun, non-essential toys and other gifts like that. But we commonly got socks and underwear and other such necessities.

I guess I object to an expectation of luxuries and toys. To my nose, that reeks of an entitlement mentality. I concede I may be missing something from the context of the rising generation, but I probably will not change my mind until and unless someone can explain to me, in terms I can understand, why such feelings do not constitute entitlement (or why this kind of entitlement is acceptable).

I’m fine with essentials and non-essentials together in the gift pile. It seems, however, some are asserting that families that are destitute should only receive the essentials.

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2 minutes ago, Fether said:

I’m fine with essentials and non-essentials together in the gift pile. It seems, however, some are asserting that families that are destitute should only receive the essentials.

Perhaps some are. I am not. But a $1000 gaming system—or, heck, a $300 gaming system—seems utterly beyond the pale for people struggling to provide any gifts at all to their children.

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24 minutes ago, Vort said:

Perhaps some are. I am not. But a $1000 gaming system—or, heck, a $300 gaming system—seems utterly beyond the pale for people struggling to provide any gifts at all to their children.

We had this discussion at a Church meeting recently.    I try very hard to look at things objectively.

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2 hours ago, Grunt said:

I don't think it's the end.  I think they just aren't all going to be filled, or filled by what they want.  For example, I put put used bikes on our "free" page.  I was contacted by someone that runs the giving tree asking if I would hold them for her, since someone had bicycles as their gift.   I took them down, cleaned them up, and let her have them.   Some kids will be getting used bikes from the giving tree.   

That's awesome.

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1 hour ago, Fether said:

 It seems, however, some are asserting that families that are destitute should only receive the essentials.

This is where I have my conflict. Fancy things are fun. It's just difficult to find the balance and pinpoint just what they "deserve".

In line with what @Vort was saying, however, are these families asking others to provide them Christmas or are they asking to be provided an all-out Christmas?

Edited by Backroads
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2 hours ago, Vort said:

Perhaps some are. I am not. But a $1000 gaming system—or, heck, a $300 gaming system—seems utterly beyond the pale for people struggling to provide any gifts at all to their children.

If someone has the ability to offer it and wishes to, is there a problem? 

I mentioned this earlier, but in my situation, we were approached by the bishop for a list of things our kids want. we didn’t go to the bishop. If you ask a kid “what do you want”, be ready for an honest answer.

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1 hour ago, Backroads said:

This is where I have my conflict. Fancy things are fun. It's just difficult to find the balance and pinpoint just what they "deserve".

In line with what @Vort was saying, however, are these families asking others to provide them Christmas or are they asking to be provided an all-out Christmas?

Deserve? I don’t think anyone deserves anything. The giving tree is about charity, which takes out the whole purpose of asking who “deserves” what. Are we not all beggars of at least salvation, of which we fall extremely short of… yet it is offered freely.

Now I do not mean to compare a $200-1000 gaming system to Salvation, but if we get irritated about a child asking for a gaming system… is that not at least a little hypocritical? I understand not buying it because you can’t afford it, but let’s not complain or judge the poor kid.

Im reminded of the parable of the unrighteous servant in Matt 18

Edited by Fether
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26 minutes ago, Vort said:

 Not at all. But my understanding was that this was a Giving Tree, where people ask for stuff.

Are they asking? Or was someone asking them what they wanted?

I think that is an important distinguisher. In the judgement of morality.

Im sure there are plenty of entitled people out there. I just get annoyed when I see others and catch myself making unfruitful judgements without all the info.

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1 hour ago, Fether said:

Are they asking? Or was someone asking them what they wanted?

I think that is an important distinguisher. In the judgement of morality.

Im sure there are plenty of entitled people out there. I just get annoyed when I see others and catch myself making unfruitful judgements without all the info.

@Backroads can perhaps clear this up. When I have seen the "Giving Trees" at work, they have consisted of cards or tree ornaments on which someone (normally a child) has written a gift that he or she would like to receive.

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Some years back, I’m pretty sure we (my family) were on the receiving end of a giving tree—we didn’t ask for anything; the gifts were all selected by whoever ran the activity (and a decent mix of clothes and sensible toys).

It was tremendously humbling, and my wife and I were very grateful—but, I’m not gonna lie; it was more than a little humiliating.  We weren’t that poor—were we?  Is that how people in the ward thought of us?

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Some years back, I’m pretty sure we (my family) were on the receiving end of a giving tree—we didn’t ask for anything; the gifts were all selected by whoever ran the activity (and a decent mix of clothes and sensible toys).

It was tremendously humbling, and my wife and I were very grateful—but, I’m not gonna lie; it was more than a little humiliating.  We weren’t that poor—were we?  Is that how people in the ward thought of us?

One Christmas, my wife and I received an anonymous Christmas card with a $100 bill inside. We were very humbled and grateful, and decided to keep it until we really needed it. We ended up giving it away for the next Christmas in another anonymous Christmas card. (Apparently, we never really needed it that year.)

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I love the Christmas season! To me, it is so heartwarming to see people looking for ways to help others. I know many people are like this year round, but during the holidays there seems to be so many more willing to donate and give of their own resources.

In years past, my family has been the recipients of anonymous gifts. We live in an affluent, albeit small community. And it was obvious that our family struggled financially. One Christmas Eve we had a knock on our door about 9 pm. When we opened the door, no one was there, but, there on the steps was a huge rectangular box. Someone had given us a trampoline! My children were thrilled! That trampoline was used for years by our seven kids.

We have had anonymous donations of cash given to us on several different Christmas occasions. What a blessing this has been. One year, we had anonymous gifts of homemade quilts given to each family member. We have had coats, toys, watches, and food given to us other years. I can’t begin to tell you how grateful I have been for our kind and thoughtful neighbors.

I have seen the joy on children’s faces as they have opened presents on Christmas morning given to them by good people who have donated to various Christmas charities. To those of you who donate, thank you. 
 

I do want to mention one experience told to me by my cousin and his wife. They adopted a young teenage boy from a catholic boys home in Northern California. They also adopted his younger sister who was in a foster home. I won’t go into his horrific younger years, but needless to say foster homes were no longer willing to take him. (Many people do not want teenage boys, they are generally more willing to foster or adopt teenage girls than boys.)  For this young teen, his first Christmas in his newly adoptive home was so different from what he had ever experienced before. He had never experienced a real family Christmas. In the boys home he had only received one gift. It was a bicycle helmet. He didn’t have a bike and no access to a bike. This has helped me to realize that if we donate gifts, to be mindful of the children it will be given to.


 

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