askandanswer

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 @romans8 the nature of your participation in this forum suggests that you have some familiarity with the scriptures, teaching and practices of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I’m wondering what it is that is holding you back from building on this knowledge, and acting on it, by exercising faith and prayer to ask God if the things you have learned are true. I believe that you are a man of faith and it seems that you believe in God. I also think you probably believe that we can pray to God and that He will hear and answer the prayers of his humble, faithful, seeking children who genuinely desire for, and intend to follow, whatever answer He gives them. Will you do this about what you are learning about His restored church in the latter-day? Will you, with faith, humility, and a genuine desire to follow whatever answer you receive, ask God if what you are learning about His church is true? If you have already received an answer, or arrived at a conclusion about this question that is from your own study, or from someone or somewhere else other than God, then I state firmly that such an answer is not as good or as reliable as an answer from God. If asking God about these things through prayer is something you have thought about doing, but have not yet made a decision about, I urge you, as strongly as I can, to exercise your faith in God and ask Him, if the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is His true church on earth and whether you should unite yourself with it by being baptized.

I promise you that if you do ask God about this, and if you do make and keep sacred covenants with God, made with and under the authority of those who hold His priesthood authority, then your ability to understand His gospel, His teachings, His plan of salvation for you and for all of His children, His scriptures, and our ultimate destiny, will be enormously increased, as will your opportunities for happiness and joy in this life and the next.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is true. It is God’s restored church on earth in these latter days. The Book of Mormon is true and is the work and word of God. Joseph Smith was God’s prophet on earth and Russell M Nelson is God’s prophet on the earth today. Of these things I testify in the name of Jesus Christ. I urge you again to fast and pray and exercise faith and humility and ask God yourself if these things are true. If I can assist you with this, I would be happy to do so, and I believe that many others would be as well.

Edited by askandanswer
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On 12/18/2021 at 3:38 PM, askandanswer said:

 @romans8 the nature of your participation in this forum suggests that you have some familiarity with the scriptures, teaching and practices of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I’m wondering what it is that is holding you back from building on this knowledge, and acting on it, by exercising faith and prayer to ask God if the things you have learned are true. I believe that you are a man of faith and it seems that you believe in God. I also think you probably believe that we can pray to God and that He will hear and answer the prayers of his humble, faithful, seeking children who genuinely desire for, and intend to follow, whatever answer He gives them. Will you do this about what you are learning about His restored church in the latter-day? Will you, with faith, humility, and a genuine desire to follow whatever answer you receive, ask God if what you are learning about His church is true? If you have already received an answer, or arrived at a conclusion about this question that is from your own study, or from someone or somewhere else other than God, then I state firmly that such an answer is not as good or as reliable as an answer from God. If asking God about these things through prayer is something you have thought about doing, but have not yet made a decision about, I urge you, as strongly as I can, to exercise your faith in God and ask Him, if the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is His true church on earth and whether you should unite yourself with it by being baptized.

I promise you that if you do ask God about this, and if you do make and keep sacred covenants with God, made with and under the authority of those who hold His priesthood authority, then your ability to understand His gospel, His teachings, His plan of salvation for you and for all of His children, His scriptures, and our ultimate destiny, will be enormously increased, as will your opportunities for happiness and joy in this life and the next.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is true. It is God’s restored church on earth in these latter days. The Book of Mormon is true and is the work and word of God. Joseph Smith was God’s prophet on earth and Russell M Nelson is God’s prophet on the earth today. Of these things I testify in the name of Jesus Christ. I urge you again to fast and pray and exercise faith and humility and ask God yourself if these things are true. If I can assist you with this, I would be happy to do so, and I believe that many others would be as well.

First of all, Merry Christmas to you and your family.

Thank you for your kind words and invitation.  I am not there yet - as for getting baptized into this church, but I
am still learning.  More prayer and study are in order though. I meet with the occasional missionaries with face
to face zoom/google sometimes.

Matteo

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2 hours ago, romans8 said:

First of all, Merry Christmas to you and your family.

Thank you for your kind words and invitation.  I am not there yet - as for getting baptized into this church, but I
am still learning.  More prayer and study are in order though. I meet with the occasional missionaries with face
to face zoom/google sometimes.

Matteo

Matteo,

This reminds me of that old gravestone that floats around:  "Where you are now, so once was I....."

Feel free to reach out if you want to chat about my journey.   I have a thread in the "Learn about the Mormon Church" section titled "Missionaries".   I studied and prayed myself into a corner.   Through this time, I really wanted to believe in the Church, but at the same time I really DIDN'T want to believe in the Church.   Accepting the doctrine would require uncomfortable change on my part.   

Throughout my journey I was give some great advice by some great people, as well as some crappy advice by some crappy people.  I'd love the opportunity to share the great advice with you, if you'd like, and answer any specific odd questions from a fairly recent convert's point of view.   I know, without a shadow of a doubt, that this is where Heavenly Father wants me to be.

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@romans8 Merry Christmas also to you and your family. I guess that in your part of the world, its still Christmas day, whereas here, its now Sunday morning. 

If you have not already done so, as part of your learning process, I strongly encourage you to visit an LDS church service. You can easily find the location of the chapel or congregation  closest to you through this link https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/comeuntochrist/belong?lang=eng. There is something to be said for improving our knowledge through study, but there is also much to be said about improving our knowledge through experience. I invite you to have the experience of attending the Sunday services of an LDS congregation. It will only cost you a few hours and those few hours could yield greater learning outcomes, in a shorter time, than what you might gain by lengthy periods of study. Spiritual truths are best learned not from a method that is overly reliant on study, but from learning processes that include a combination of study, faith, prayer, and spiritual experiences. There is no harm in attending an LDS Sunday service and potentially much to be gained. I encourage you to give it a try. 

I also encourage you to re-read and reflect anew on Romans 8, particularly verses 14, 16, and 24 - 28 and consider how these verses might apply to your own circumstances.

Romans 8: 5 - 8 also might be relevant to your current circumstances. To me, it seems that an over reliance on the arm of flesh or relying too much on our own study and intellect for trying to find out the truthfulness of spiritual matters, rather than relying on the guidance of the Spirit might be an example of the kind of carnal practices that Paul condemns in Romans 8: 5 - 8  

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On 12/25/2021 at 6:15 PM, askandanswer said:

I also encourage you to re-read and reflect anew on Romans 8, particularly verses 14, 16, and 24 - 28 and consider how these verses might apply to your own circumstances.

Thanks.

I read those verses.  

14-17 - For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not
received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption,
whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the
children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be
that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together
.

From this I see all who are led by the spirit of God are children of God and joint-heirs with
Christ. There is no child of God who is not also a joint-heir.

But I see from a church teaching that joint-heirs is a reference to exalted beings - those who
become gods.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/teachings-joseph-smith/chapter-3?lang=eng
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/teachings-joseph-smith/chapter-18?lang=eng

This would indicate terrestrial and telestial inhabitants are not considered children of God
because they are not joint-heirs.

Jehovah's Witnesses believe joint-heirs is a reference to only 144,000 people ruling with Christ
in heaven in some future day but this would classify millions of others, including myself, as not
being children of God.

Matteo

Edited by romans8

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2 hours ago, romans8 said:

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the
children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be
that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together
.

'These are only my own thoughts on the matter and should not be taken as church doctrine:

It seems to me, that another reasonable interpretation of the above scripture is as follows:

We are indeed all children of God, and as God's children, then we are His heirs. Those who suffer with him (Christ) in all things are those who will be glorified together and become joint heirs with Christ.

Thus, it seems that there are at least two classes of heirs: those who are children of God, who thereby become His heirs, and I think this includes everybody, and those who suffer with Christ, and thereby become His joint heirs. I think this will be a  much smaller group of people. This idea is consistent with the idea expressed by Paul in 1 Corinthians, 3:84

8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

Being an heir of God seems to be unconditional. Being a joint heir seems to be conditional. I cannot see anything in Romans 8: 14 - 17 that supports the conclusion that being an heir of God, rather than a joint heir, means that you are no longer a child of God. 

 

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4 hours ago, romans8 said:

 

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/teachings-joseph-smith/chapter-3?lang=eng
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/teachings-joseph-smith/chapter-18?lang=eng

This would indicate terrestrial and telestial inhabitants are not considered children of God
because they are not joint-heirs.

LDS Christians believe everyone is a child of God.  

However, not every person will receive the same glory.  I've also heard these "different crowns" so to say, discussed in Baptist discourses.  

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On 1/1/2022 at 1:15 PM, askandanswer said:

I cannot see anything in Romans 8: 14 - 17 that supports the conclusion that being an heir of God, rather than a joint heir, means that you are no longer a child of God. 

I think you misunderstood what I concluding earlier.

Being an heir of God makes one a joint-heir of Christ (but only if you are a child of his).  Those not
considered as sons are referred to as illegitimate (Hebrews 12:7-8). Those not led by the Spirit are
not sons (heirs/joint-heirs).  I see the "if, then, and" statement revealing only a single group of people.
The part of suffering is associated with sons and daughters (the heirs of God and joint-heirs of Christ).

Edited by romans8

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