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NeuroTypical

7%. Oy.

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13 hours ago, Traveler said:

One possibility is that we will learn to live without things that are so common until now.  But I do not see families trying to live with one car and one phone - let alone a year without sugar or some other food commodes.   We expect fresh fruit and vegies regardless of the season.  

Part of me wonders if we could have people simplifying their lives. But even with the rise of van-dwelling and tiny houses, newly built homes are with very little variance huge, at least in my area. Since I work from home, reducing us to one car is probably quite feasible, but even then my selfish reaction is to cling to my car. 

I think it'd be cool to return to some simple, frugal living measures. But I think our society's views of such things has changed. 

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On 1/17/2022 at 1:31 PM, Backroads said:

I think it'd be cool to return to some simple, frugal living measures. But I think our society's views of such things has changed. 

 I’ve heard people talk about living a simple, frugal life, and if that’s your thing, great. But with the frugal, “keeping it real” style that almost always comes a massive superiority complex and a sneering attitude to those who prefer to live a different lifestyle. 
 

I have seen this hundreds of times. People inherently equate simplicity and frugality with morality and wealth with immorality. The awkward truth is that frugal, simple people can be nasty and that rich people can be incredibly moral. 

Edited by LDSGator

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6 hours ago, LDSGator said:

People inherently equate simplicity and frugality with morality and wealth with immorality. The awkward truth is that frugal, simple people can be nasty and that rich people can be incredibly moral. 

What about those of us who aspire to be frugal, rich, moral, and nasty all at the same time?

🤠

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The other factor here is the labor shortage and the ongoing “Great Resignation”.  My feeling is that just isn’t as much goods and services being produced, but the same number of people chasing those goods.  As people economize, particularly in housing and transport, they paradoxically find they have more available cash to throw at the things they need/want now that they don’t have to worry about mortgage/rent/car payments.

I don’t want to be excessively judgmental; but I think we’re dealing with a lot of people who have resigned themselves to the idea that they’ll never get ahead, and so they’re reconciling themselves to housing and transport limitations that their parents never would have tolerated (but that their grandparents and great grandparents would, and did) and giving up on the employment rat race.  Employers want to respond with higher wages but (I suspect, and especially the small businesses) are already at rock-bottom margins, have little disposable cash and/or are over-leveraged already, and are reeling not only from supply chain shortages but from transport/infrastructure bottlenecks at the Port of LA.  Additionally, I suspect many parents are realizing that public schools are so unreliable (we’re open.  We’re closed!  We’re open, but for six hours instead of right.  We’re closed, but only on Tuesday’s.  We’re staggering classes.  Our teachers are striking again) that, in two-parent families, especially, one parent is choosing to quit work to care for (and maybe even home-school) the kids—further feeding into the labor shortage.

I don’t think the problem with housing is foreigners buying up all the cheap properties—if they’re not living in them, they’re renting them; and they’re only charging what the market will bear.  The problem, I think, is largely a bona fide shortage of housing (exacerbated by eviction moratoria - it’s safer for a landlord to let a property sit vacant and eat the mortgage for half a year than to get some tenant who will pay rent for two months, squat for another year and a half, and then trash the place on their way out requiring the landlord to front another $30K in renovations).  And yes, as city-dwellers continue to transition to distance working and realize that they can live literally anywhere in the country, those of us already in rural or heartland states are going to continue to see property prices going bonkers in our necks of the woods.

The current and prior administration may have pushed us over the brink with some unwise policies (stimulus payments, eviction moratoria, a part-time Transportation Secretary who thinks he’s Mary Poppins, etc).  But I think at this point the problems are largely systemic and, I’m afraid, self-perpetuating for the foreseeable future.  

Edited by Just_A_Guy

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4 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Additionally, I suspect many parents are realizing that public schools are so unreliable (we’re open.  We’re closed!  We’re open, but for six hours instead of right.  We’re closed, but only on Tuesday’s.  We’re staggering classes.  Our teachers are striking again) that, in two-parent families, especially, one parent is choosing to quit work to care for (and maybe even home-school) the kids—further feeding into the labor shortage.

I thought your whole post was excellent, but this one stood out to me, likely because of my job.

I teach at a public school, just one that happens to be online. Families love it for various reasons, some of which definitely revolve around a potentially sturdier schooling system these days. 

Yesterday I had a difficult conversation with a parent who, after some tears, realized that even by having her kid attend a virtual school from home with lots of room for a personalized schedule, she still may have to quit her job in order to make the schooling happen (Long story short: the family hasn't done anything for the better part of two months and tried to complete it all in a single day which led to a 6-year-old bawling for hours and throwing up multiple times from the stress and still not knowing his ABCs).

The golden age of two-income families may be dwindling to a close. Even with all the promises of systems you can adjust to fit your life, things aren't so simple. I don't know if I necessarily blame families for foregoing the things/goals their parents had in order to take a few steps back. I have some in-laws who have decided to get a smaller, older home so the wife can be a stay-at-home mom and her parents, who are extremely traditional, are horrified she's not getting a job and buying a more impressive home. Even with smaller older homes costing a fortune (I apparently can sell you mine for 400K) this behavior will affect the economy. I like to think, in time, our economy will adjust, but it certainly is far more systemic than many want to admit. 

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1 hour ago, Backroads said:

I thought your whole post was excellent, but this one stood out to me, likely because of my job.

I teach at a public school, just one that happens to be online. Families love it for various reasons, some of which definitely revolve around a potentially sturdier schooling system these days. 

Yesterday I had a difficult conversation with a parent who, after some tears, realized that even by having her kid attend a virtual school from home with lots of room for a personalized schedule, she still may have to quit her job in order to make the schooling happen (Long story short: the family hasn't done anything for the better part of two months and tried to complete it all in a single day which led to a 6-year-old bawling for hours and throwing up multiple times from the stress and still not knowing his ABCs).

The golden age of two-income families may be dwindling to a close. Even with all the promises of systems you can adjust to fit your life, things aren't so simple. I don't know if I necessarily blame families for foregoing the things/goals their parents had in order to take a few steps back. I have some in-laws who have decided to get a smaller, older home so the wife can be a stay-at-home mom and her parents, who are extremely traditional, are horrified she's not getting a job and buying a more impressive home. Even with smaller older homes costing a fortune (I apparently can sell you mine for 400K) this behavior will affect the economy. I like to think, in time, our economy will adjust, but it certainly is far more systemic than many want to admit. 

Kids thrive off of stability and structure. Arguably the best choice we have ever made for our family is having my wife stay home. She has plenty of time to teach them the basics of ABC's and counting before enrolling them in the online upstart program. Every one of our kids has been able to read basic 3-4 letter words before Kindergarten. It also makes helping the older kids with homework much easier. Switching to online was not a problem for us as she was home and fully able to teach them.

The second best decision may be staying away from unnecessary debt. Our home is not lavish and quite small compared to our other ward members, but our life is so much simpler than theirs. We are out of debt and have no need for more money. Less anxiety, less comparisons, less stress, less arguments, etc... We also have plenty of time to do activities as a family as we aren't trying to juggle 2 different work schedules. 

I don't know anyone who likes inflation, but it affects us less as our time and money aren't tied up in other things. The lack of gratitude and constant need for "more" in the lives of everyday americans has actually led to them having less.

Edited by scottyg
grammar

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21 minutes ago, scottyg said:

Kids thrive off of stability and structure. Arguably the best choice we have ever made for our family is having my wife stay home. She has plenty of time to teach them the basics of ABC's and counting before enrolling them in the online upstart program. Every one of our kids has been able to read basic 3-4 letter words before Kindergarten. She also Switching to online was not a problem for us as she was fully able to teach them.

By and large, I think my online school works best for those families that do have a parent who is at home full-time. 90% of the "can't get the schooling done" comes from families where teh parents are trying to juggle job responsibilities and hoping they can just catch up in the evenings or weekends with their kids' school. 

However, I think in order to make schooling more inclusive, some areas of homeschooling insist everyone can do it no matter what the rest of their live is like. I've even seen it come down to "you just need one or two hours a week". I have friends that homeschool their kids, and they'll be the first to say that it can't be done in anywhere near one or two hours a week and takes real commitment. 

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29 minutes ago, Backroads said:

By and large, I think my online school works best for those families that do have a parent who is at home full-time. 90% of the "can't get the schooling done" comes from families where teh parents are trying to juggle job responsibilities and hoping they can just catch up in the evenings or weekends with their kids' school. 

However, I think in order to make schooling more inclusive, some areas of homeschooling insist everyone can do it no matter what the rest of their live is like. I've even seen it come down to "you just need one or two hours a week". I have friends that homeschool their kids, and they'll be the first to say that it can't be done in anywhere near one or two hours a week and takes real commitment. 

True. Permanent/long-term homeschooling is no small task. It is much different than a temporary 1-2 week switch to online learning due to high covid numbers.

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