Censorship and the ideological divide


prisonchaplain
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22 hours ago, LDSGator said:

It backfired big time recently. Google “Maus ban”, then look what skyrocketed to number one in sales on Amazon. If the book banners were a little wiser, they’d simply ignore it rather than bring more attention to it. 

A few years ago I read a middle-school novel about book banning. In it, the school librarian and mentor to our intrepid young hero was fired... and as soon as the stuff of book banning went out on social media, she had her pick of jobs. Which seemed extremely realistic and likely. Yeah, don't bring attention to what you don't want. 

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1 hour ago, JohnsonJones said:

From my understanding, I understand WHY it was taken out of the syllabus.  My understanding is that it was not actually BANNED, but simply removed from the school syllabus.

If this is what's happening, then it is indeed a far cry from censorship and book-banning.

1 hour ago, JohnsonJones said:

In some school districts this would not make a lot of sense as they already have books with bad language and graphic immorality.  In one that does not normally approve of these things, Maus itself should not have been part of the syllabus itself. 

The book in the first chapter tries to humanize the parents, or the main character who is relating the story to his son at the time.  There is an incidence of pretty horrid immorality written about during that chapter.  There are other instances of references to immoral acts and there is a little language.  In addition it addresses an issue regarding suicide and death in a way that could inspire children to feel or copy those acts in some situations.  If they ALSO remove other works that also have such material from their syllabus, I fully understand why Maus would and should be no exception.  There are other books that cover the same material without referring to such things.

On the otherhand, this does not reduce Maus in it's significance.  Maus has been selected by some schools because it presents the material in a way that is easier for some people to grasp.  It is a comic book form which makes it more entertaining for some individuals to read, and thus learn more personally about the events that took place.  Because of the medium in which it is produced, it makes it so that the events have a bigger impact upon the reader as it is a visual medium in addition to reading.  It is more personal in the attachment to characters of the book, and in it's own way can impact the reader more strongly than other historical references.  If a school district allows other materials which have such things in them (and many school districts do), accepting this book into their syllabus would be a massive boon in helping students understand WHY the holocaust was so terrible and the horrible things that occurred.  It is, in fact, less graphic than many other materials on the same subject as well.

Maybe it's been too many years, but I don't remember the immorality you mention, except of course the gross immorality of Nazi Germany and its unspeakable atrocities.

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1 hour ago, JohnsonJones said:

My initial reactions are that we should not ban books, BUT, considering certain things, we already do so.  WE don't push children to go read pornographic magazines or put them in our syllabuses or place them in the children's section of the library.  We don't push certain other materials or even carry them in School Libraries.  In regards to children, I think some censoring regarding the morals of the community they are in may be necessary, as it is already done on a more limited scale already.  The question is how far and to what degree it will be done in regards to what our children should be able to consume.

I am against books being banned in general, but where children's information and material come in, I think it's already done by basically every school district out there already and I agree with that.  Materials that are Pornographic, for example, are generally not allowed in such places.  This means it is NOT a matter of whether anything will be censored or banned from those school districts or not, but HOW MUCH and HOW FAR they will censor materials allowed on their campuses or at least taught in their syllabuses.

Indeed. You can be sure that many books, movies, music, and other communications are banned in the Vort household.

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My criticism is this whole matter of "oh, we're not actually cencorsing/banning it, we're just not allowing it."

To be fair, I tend to agree with everyone else here that it is reasonable to currate books in a school library that are best for the school's age group. 

But trying to split the definitions of what is happening with these books seems dishonest. 

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2 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

My understanding is that it was not actually BANNED, but simply removed from the school syllabus.

 

Ahh. That makes it a little better, but still doesn’t address the main problems. You need to learn about the Holocaust eventually, and a brilliant comic like Maus would be a great start. Most of us read it around that age. Also, once again, the school board called so much attention to it that if they simply ignored it there would be controversy. 
 

The school board asked for this. If they had an inch of common sense this could have been avoided. Controversy knocked, they foolishly opened the door and offered it cookies. 

Edited by LDSGator
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On 2/3/2022 at 12:58 PM, LDSGator said:

I generally agree here too (sorry) and that’s why I’m not a leftist. I’ve been called “conservative” because I don’t think 8 year olds should play Grand Theft Auto or watch certain movies. 

In my opinion I have no clue why a Latter-Day Saint or a Christian would want to play the Grand Theft Auto video games.  The actions in these games are reprehensible and senseless violence and there are elements of pornography in some of the games.  I am not against violence in just causes (such as Captain Moroni in the defense of his country), but why glorify murder or prostitution?  The carnal or sensual mind loves such things.

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Just now, Still_Small_Voice said:

In my opinion I have no clue why a Latter-Day Saint or a Christian would want to play the Grand Theft Auto video games.  The actions in these games are reprehensible and senseless violence and there are elements of pornography in some of the games.  I am not against violence in just causes (such as Captain Moroni in the defense of his country), but why glorify murder or prostitution?  The carnal or sensual mind loves such things.

I don’t play them either. I overwhelmingly prefer Nintendo unless I’m playing NCAA Football. There are a few other games I play on Xbox, too.

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23 hours ago, Vort said:

That's called "home schooling", and if done conscientiously, it works really great. Warning: Home $chooling deprive$ the $chool di$trict of the fund$ a$$ociated with that preciou$ $tudent, $o $chool di$tricts are often not fan$.

Surprisingly, many school districts have put children first, and offered homeschoolers curriculum (books and internet programming), as well as access to music and gym programs. I could be wrong, but the hostile approach seems to be waning. 

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21 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

Surprisingly, many school districts have put children first, and offered homeschoolers curriculum (books and internet programming), as well as access to music and gym programs. I could be wrong, but the hostile approach seems to be waning. 

My state provides homeschooling curriculum.

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21 minutes ago, Backroads said:

At that point is it homeschooling?

Sure. First, it's optional. Second, parent-teachers can emphasize the appropriate material and even skip over any that is inappropriate. The private school I teach at uses mostly textbooks from the larger providers (rather than the much smaller, sometimes biased religious publishers).

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18 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

Surprisingly, many school districts have put children first, and offered homeschoolers curriculum (books and internet programming), as well as access to music and gym programs. I could be wrong, but the hostile approach seems to be waning. 

That is excellent news.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2/3/2022 at 8:40 AM, prisonchaplain said:

Places like TX and VA are starting to say a wave of censorship--a purging of books supporting LGBTQI morality. Of course, so many of these books are authored by BIPOC (Black Indigenous People of Color) authors, so we know what's really going on here. 😉

And...when I heard this kind of reporting in the late 1980s I, like so many conservatives, was sympathetic. We're small-government folks, with a dash of libertarianism. After all, we believe in the depravity of humanity, and so do not want too much power concentrated in too few hands. Further, it takes little morality or virtue to obey the rules, if severe punishment is the alternative.

My perspective is now officially jaded. Liberals love censorship--when they are in power. Cancel Culture. Political Correctness. The real tell was when conservatives said, "What happened to tolerance?" and liberals responded, "Why should we tolerate hate?"

I still believe we should be cautious with censorship and purges. However, those on the left have no standing to complain. They love big government and are more than happy to declare our beliefs outside the realm of civilized thought. 

I am wondering - do you believe there will be a "wave of censorship"  when Jesus returns?  Will there be a cancel culture of another variety?

 

The Traveler

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49 minutes ago, Traveler said:

I am wondering - do you believe there will be a "wave of censorship"  when Jesus returns?  Will there be a cancel culture of another variety?

 

The Traveler

If you are asking my view on the Millenial Reign, the Bible tells us very little. There is some interesting speculative fiction, suggesting that Jesus will set up a reign that will be righteous, but will be under strong regulation. So, perhaps there will be limitations. However, I'm not sure we can call any restrictions from Jesus censorship, since He is always right. 

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17 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

If you are asking my view on the Millenial Reign, the Bible tells us very little. There is some interesting speculative fiction, suggesting that Jesus will set up a reign that will be righteous, but will be under strong regulation. So, perhaps there will be limitations. However, I'm not sure we can call any restrictions from Jesus censorship, since He is always right. 

I am thinking that destruction of wickedness (in preparation for the return of Christ) is a form of censorship.   Is there is another possible thought concerning censorship -- this is the idea beyond what you choose for yourself.  We all make choices for ourselves.  For example; a devout religious person that has gone through a repentance process may burn all their shady (sinful) pictures and other materials and look away from certain public displays and not participate in certain entertainments.  They may fill their personal space (including home) with displays that spiritually comfort them.  Is this not a beginning of censorship?   is it only crossing a line should they attempt to alter what is on display or available in public spaces?

There is a notion that G-d will allow no "unclean thing" in his presents.  That looks a lot like censorship to me.  I guess that I am asking if censorship can ever be a good thing.

 

The Traveler

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3 minutes ago, Traveler said:

(in preparation for the return of Christ) 

In the historic churches, and perhaps in Catholicism, there is the belief that Christians must be "salt and light"--preparing the world for Christ's return. We are to make the world more and more Christian and godly. In the last 10-years a subsection of Evangelicals turned to "Kingdom Now" teachings. We must take over the reigns of power and return the world--especially America--to God.

Traditionally, Evangelicals--especially those of us who subscribe to belief in an imminent rapture--reject this teaching. The world will not improve. It will continue to descend morally and spiritually, until God takes his church away and then brings a season of judgment. As a result, historically, our churches have avoided politics and social programs, in favor of efforts to win converts and build strong churches worldwide. 

The 'culture wars' of the last 50 years--especially surrounding the issue of abortion--have muddied the waters considerably. However, our default inclinations remain--we don't believe we're preparing the world for the return of Christ. Rather, we're trying to take as many with us as we can. 

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