Russia-Ukraine conflict


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19 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Percheck got arrested in Kyiv.   That's what comes from men and women dancing

Perchik went out of his way to get arrested, so he had it coming. Hodel seemed like a sweet girl, but she would have been better off with her infatuation with the rabbi's son. Reminder to think with your brain and not with your glands.

And yes, that's what comes of men and women dancing together. You'd think the rabbi would have had enough sense to put a stop to that mischief.

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Russia denies any invasion is imminent.

Quote

Russia has no plans to invade Ukraine or any other country

-- Russian Ambassador to EU.

https://www.euronews.com/2022/01/27/russia-has-no-plans-to-invade-either-ukraine-or-any-other-country-says-moscow-s-top-eu-dip

The Ukrainians don't seem to see any real indication that an attack is imminent.

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We understand all the risks. We understand that the risks are there

Right now, the people’s biggest enemy is panic in our country. And all this information is only provoking panic and not helping us

If you or anyone has any additional information about a 100-percent chance of an invasion, give it to us

-- (Ukrainian) President Zelensky.

Now the White House is changing their story.

Quote

US says new intel shows Russia plotting false flag attack.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/us-intel-shows-russia-plotting-false-flag-attack-82653765

U.S. officials warn that an invasion could be imminent.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/13/ukraine-russia-putin-nato/

What exactly do we know about the situation that isn't from the White House or the media hyping whatever the White House says?

It sounds like Biden is failing at pretty much everything and TPTB are trying to fabricate a war where there was none.

On the other hand, Church HQ has removed all missionaries from the Ukraine and moved them to Moldova.  My son was going to that mission.  Instead, he's serving in Layton, Utah.

It really is difficult to determine what is actually happening.  Something is definitely up.  But I doubt we're getting the straight scoop from any of the usual suspects.

Who the heck are we supposed to believe? 

  • Russians who would deny involvement whether it was true or not?
  • A Ukrainian President who is trying to keep their country calm and travel flowing?
  • A US President with tanking poll numbers willing to do ANYthing to distract the population from his miserable administration?

My guess is that there is something else really going on, and each of these guys has to put up some front.  Because nothing else is making sense.  And the "something else" is going to cause war anyway which is why they're building up and posturing.

Edited by Carborendum
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Putin is sick of Russia's traditional buffer making googey eyes at the West, so he's armed up and rattling sabers on the border, offering Ukraine the choice between a guarantee they'll never join Nato, or Russia will take back the buffer by force.

I don't know enough about Ukraine to understand why they're acting like they are, or what they want.

Biden made a handshake agreement with Putin to not let the thing turn into WWIII, and now he's directing USA's attention over there, because Dems are about to lose massively in 2022, and good ol' war is the best way to keep folks in power.  He'll keep our attention as focused on Ukraine as he can, without actually doing anything substantive.

 

Edited by NeuroTypical
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1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

use Dems are about to lose massively in 2022, and good ol' war is the best way to keep folks in power.  He'll keep our attention as focused on Ukraine as he can, without actually doing anything substantive.

And you call me cynical? Biden is a buffoon, but I can’t believe that he’s going to something like this. Like Bush with Iraq I think naivety and good intentions lead us to war more often then domestic politics. Simply because going to war is a massively unpopular and risky choice. 

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10 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

And you call me cynical? Biden is a buffoon, but I can’t believe that he’s going to something like this. Like Bush with Iraq I think naivety and good intentions lead us to war more often then domestic politics. Simply because going to war is a massively unpopular and risky choice. 

I don’t think he is actively trying to create a war.  But I think he’s hoping that we will think there is about to be a war.  It’s a distraction from other bad news; and if war doesn’t happen, he can claim it was due to his statesmanship. Whereas if it does, it’s a twofer for him—he can claim to have predicted it, and hopefully a few errant bombs destroy whatever repository is holding the papers/servers that could get Hunter convicted.

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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8 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I don’t think he *wants* war (though it would make it harder for a Republican successor to investigate Hunter’s Ukrainian shenanigans).  But I think he’s hoping that we will think there is about to be a war.  If it doesn’t happen, he can claim it was due to his statesmanship. And if it does, it’s a twofer for him—he predicted it, and hopefully a few errant bombs destroy whatever repository is holding the papers/servers that could get Hunter convicted.

Fair enough @Just_A_Guy.
 

That eliminates the GOP talking point that Biden is senile or stupid, because that would require great cunning and clear thought. Again, I go back to the Bush and Iraq for a minute. If Bush was as stupid as those on the left thought he was, how could he have orchestrated 9/11 and developed a plan to convince 20+ countries to join us in invading Iraq? 

Edited by LDSGator
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7 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Fair enough @Just_A_Guy.
 

That eliminates the GOP talking point that Biden is senile or stupid, because that would require great cunning and clear thought. Again, I go back to the Bush and Iraq for a minute. If Bush was as stupid as those on the left thought he was, how could he have orchestrated 9/11 and developed a plan to convince 20+ countries to join us in invading Iraq? 

He was never *stupid*; and senility can come and go. ;) 

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21 minutes ago, carlimac said:

Has there ever been war in a city where there is a standing temple?

Jerusalem, A.D. 70.  The temple there didn’t come off too well.

(A little less tongue-in-cheek:  I think that maybe there was some gang street-fighting that resulted in some bullets striking the door of a temple—maybe in Nigeria?  But in terms of a modern nation-state with an LDS temple losing a war and being occupied by a hostile power:  I think there is no modern precedent for that.)

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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Well, the first deadline of what could be an invasion seems to be in the next two days (tomorrow or Thursday).

US has pulled troops and others out of Ukraine at this point from what I've heard (actually, they started getting it really going last week with a real urgency). 

It could be a bluff on Russia's part, but it seems someone in the US government thinks there is a real possibility this is going to go through.

If it does, hope it doesn't end up in a WW3 situation, but on the otherhand, there's a BIG risk if Russia goes through with it.

Russia wants to control all gas and oil to Europe, and for that they NEED to control some portions of the Ukraine to make it happen.  This is probably one BIG reason Europe has also taken a  bigger interest in this than other threats Russia has posed to prior states in the past.  If Russia gains control, they can literally starve Europe of gas and oil to the point that they could demand whatever they want in the winter (not as big of a concern in the summer...probably).

Right now, the groupings appear to put Russia in line to do a double feint, which means they'll make one push in the Northeast and another in the East.  Most likely this is to make a grab for Eastern Ukraine and create a bridge to Crimea.

I suppose we'll all know whether the fears are right or not on this current situation in the next 48 hours.

 

PS:  It looks like Putin is doubling down on the idea that genocide is being committed in the Donbas region.  That's probably going to be his excuse for invasion if he does invade I imagine. 

Edited by JohnsonJones
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It is my understanding that Russians like creating diversions.  Doing something that gets a lot of attention while they do something else that they intend to go unnoticed or an advantage in a negotiation. 

 

It also seem interesting to me that the USA seem more concerned about an invasion the those in the Ukraine - or anyone else.   Perhaps those in power in the USA are following after the Russian idea - diverting attention form something they intend to be unnoticed. 

 

The Traveler

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21 hours ago, Traveler said:

It also seem interesting to me that the USA seem more concerned about an invasion the those in the Ukraine - or anyone else.   Perhaps those in power in the USA are following after the Russian idea - diverting attention form something they intend to be unnoticed

Genuinely curious what leads you to this conclusion. 

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7 hours ago, LDSGator said:

Genuinely curious what leads you to this conclusion. 

It is one logical possibility.  But it does seem that other possibilities are deeply imbedded in politics.  I am open to other possibilities consistent with threats of war in other places (Afghanistan).

 

The Traveler

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After thinking on this subject - I am of the opinion that Russia will invade Ukraine.  I am also convinced that the USA banding with NATO is little deterrent for Russia that has been given the Green Light from China.  With the current supply chain problems - I believe sanctions from China alone would be more significant than sanctions of the USA and its trusted allies.  

I speculate that Russia will invade Ukraine next week or soon thereafter - That the deal with China was that Russia would not upstage the China Olympics.   Anyway we shall see.

 

The Traveler

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I just came across this story saying that an LDS chapel in eastern Ukraine that was expropriated by the Russkies in 2014 has been converted into a “Russian cultural center”.  Local authorities claim that the Church abandoned the building and that its members “dissolved in space”.

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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1 hour ago, LDSGator said:

Given how Russians treat JW’s, I’m deeply concerned for their safety. 

What shocks me is, the building was apparently taken over back in 2014.  How did we not hear about this earlier?

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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