Russia-Ukraine conflict


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1 hour ago, Godless said:

Good to know that we have the personal psychiatrist of both President Biden and VP Harris in this forum. Very enlightening.

I'm trained in psychological warfare. 

A few other people here have likewise had training or other experience in fields that touch on mental illness and mental health. 

Quite a few posters have also had their own personal struggles with mental illness, either themselves or caring for someone else. 

This isn't a judgment rendered out of the blue. 

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16 hours ago, Godless said:

I'm not here to defend Kamala, but in reference to the emphasized bit..... I mean..... surely you're joking, right? 🤨

Nope, not joking...she is definitely worse than Barack Obama.

(...that was a joke) ;)

Edited by scottyg
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5 hours ago, Ironhold said:

This isn't a judgment rendered out of the blue. 

Actually, it is. @Godless is right, we aren’t doctors. And even if we were, I’m 99% sure that none of us here are have examined Biden in that setting. So even though I think Biden’s behavior is worrisome, I can’t make medical diagnosis. 
 

Having said all that, I’m taking wicked glee from watching liberals suddenly become war hawks and yell at all of us to stop complaining about gasoline prices. It’s like 2004 in reverse and, of course, the partisans on both sides can’t see it. 

Edited by LDSGator
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Guest Godless
24 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Actually, it is. @Godless is right, we aren’t doctors. And even if we were, I’m 99% sure that none of us here are have examined Biden in that setting. So even though I think Biden’s behavior is worrisome, I can’t make medical diagnosis. 
 

Having said all that, I’m taking wicked glee from watching liberals suddenly become war hawks and yell at all of us to stop complaining about gasoline prices. It’s like 2004 in reverse and, of course, the partisans on both sides can’t see it. 

And to merge your two points, I don't know how many times I saw liberals try to play Dr. Phil with Trump when he was in office. It was dumb when they did it, and it's dumb when conservatives do it with Biden/Harris. Again, I'm not necessarily here to defend either of them, but unless you've personally evaluated them in a private medical setting, spare me your psychiatric "evaluations" and find something real to hit them with. 

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18 minutes ago, Godless said:

And to merge your two points, I don't know how many times I saw liberals try to play Dr. Phil with Trump when he was in office. It was dumb when they did it, and it's dumb when conservatives do it with Biden/Harris. Again, I'm not necessarily here to defend either of them, but unless you've personally evaluated them in a private medical setting, spare me your psychiatric "evaluations" and find something real to hit them with. 

Yes, agree 100%. 

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11 hours ago, Godless said:

And to merge your two points, I don't know how many times I saw liberals try to play Dr. Phil with Trump when he was in office. It was dumb when they did it, and it's dumb when conservatives do it with Biden/Harris. Again, I'm not necessarily here to defend either of them, but unless you've personally evaluated them in a private medical setting, spare me your psychiatric "evaluations" and find something real to hit them with. 

I agree 100% regarding a diagnosis, but you don't need to be a doctor to watch Biden and see something is wrong.   I saw the same thing with my grandparents and great-grandparents.   I couldn't render a diagnosis then, but we knew grandma was going to ask the same question 37 times and forget we answered it earlier.  We knew she was going to lose her train of thought regularly and not finish sentences.  We knew her mental acuity had declined.  While I couldn't say "she has dementia" and don't know if she did, but we DID know she wasn't fit for many things.

Edited by Grunt
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*shrug* Old people slow down.  The good Lord wills it to be so. I get the uselessness off armchair diagnosing, but when an entire planet full of humans can see it, it’s not helpful for me to ignore it.

Just speaking about physical reality: Biden is not strong. He’s not fast. He’s not agile.  Can a weak, slow, fumbling human be a good President? I guess. Depends on what you mean by “good”.  Can America survive having such a President? Sure, we’ve done it before.

 In a case like this, POTUS (and the rest of us) must rely on the strength, speed, and agility of those around him.

 

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7 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

Just speaking about physical reality: Biden is not strong. He’s not fast. He’s not agile.  Can a weak, slow, fumbling human be a good President? I guess. Depends on what you mean by “good”.  Can America survive having such a President? Sure, we’ve done it before.

Just a question about political philosophy in general - is it a good thing or a bad thing when the operation of a system seems to be so reliant on one person? No doubt there are both good and bad aspects of having a system that depends so much on one person, but does the good outweigh the bad or does the bad outweigh the good? Of course I acknowledge that the system is not totally dependant on just one person, but I think its obvious that they system is at least heavily dependant on just one person. So is that a good or a bad thing?

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10 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

*shrug* Old people slow down.  The good Lord wills it to be so. I get the uselessness off armchair diagnosing, but when an entire planet full of humans can see it, it’s not helpful for me to ignore it.

Just speaking about physical reality: Biden is not strong. He’s not fast. He’s not agile.  Can a weak, slow, fumbling human be a good President? I guess. Depends on what you mean by “good”.  Can America survive having such a President? Sure, we’ve done it before.

FWIW, in thinking about this thread yesterday I did some googling and found his physician’s summary of President Biden’s last physical from late 2021.  The report conspicuously omits any discussion of cognitive ability; but (speaking as a layman, and maybe @mikbone could supplement this as I understand him to be a surgeon by profession) as far as physical health goes, it does seem to be remarkably good for a man of his age.  The report also specifically notes that Biden works out something like five days a week.

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1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said:

FWIW, in thinking about this thread yesterday I did some googling and found his physician’s summary of President Biden’s last physical from late 2021.  The report conspicuously omits any discussion of cognitive ability; but (speaking as a layman, and maybe @mikbone could supplement this as I understand him to be a surgeon by profession) as far as physical health goes, it does seem to be remarkably good for a man of his age.  The report also specifically notes that Biden works out something like five days a week.

Any MD evaluation should include what is called a Review Of Systems, or ROS, in the medical record - a brief summary of a person's overall health status. A person's cognitive ability and/or mental health should be addressed in the Neurologic or Psychiatric sections of the exam. Even a specialist that does not practice in other areas should at least have a notation about what other types of health issues are going on.

Maybe Biden does have dementia setting in, or maybe he doesn't...I have not read the report, nor ever interacted with him. But, if the mental health of the commander in chief was not listed or stated in said report, that is concerning. If he is fine, then why not say so?

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1 hour ago, scottyg said:

Any MD evaluation should include what is called a Review Of Systems, or ROS, in the medical record - a brief summary of a person's overall health status. A person's cognitive ability and/or mental health should be addressed in the Neurologic or Psychiatric sections of the exam. Even a specialist that does not practice in other areas should at least have a notation about what other types of health issues are going on.

Maybe Biden does have dementia setting in, or maybe he doesn't...I have not read the report, nor ever interacted with him. But, if the mental health of the commander in chief was not listed or stated in said report, that is concerning. If he is fine, then why not say so?

Remember back when many progressives with ties to the LDS community were so very, very concerned about the possibility that then-President Monson may be suffering from dementia; and insisted that it was important—nay, imperative, for the good of the Church!that a full and complete description of his medical condition be released  to the public?

Those were good times.

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6 hours ago, askandanswer said:

Just a question about political philosophy in general - is it a good thing or a bad thing when the operation of a system seems to be so reliant on one person? 

I think that's sort of the point - it isn't.  The Veep can step in if necessary.  A weak senile person can turn into a rubber stamp for whoever ends up with the behind-the-scenes power, no matter how the press and institutions wish to spin it.

Not quite the same deal, but anyone else remember Pres George H. W. Bush, the towers, and the first Iraq war?  He was elected after running on a platform of "I'll do good for domestic stuff, and I'm weak on international stuff so Dick Cheney can run any bad things that happen overseas".  When we went into Iraq and Afghanistan, Cheney and Rumsfeld basically ran things, did all the briefings, appeared to make the decisions, and Pres Bush sort of stood by and had them do it.   

 

Edited by NeuroTypical
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12 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Remember back when many progressives with ties to the LDS community were so very, very concerned about the possibility that then-President Monson may be suffering from dementia; and insisted that it was important—nay, imperative, for the good of the Church!that a full and complete description of his medical condition be released  to the public?

Those were good times.

Yep, sure do. One difference though is that the church is led by the Lord. Our country is not. Pres. Monson had his duties scaled back, and no major church policy decision/change was made when he was unable to sign off on them, even though many had been started by him beforehand. They were held off until a new prophet was put in his place to give a final approval.

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Has this been posted before?

"How the United States Created Vladimir Putin"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X7Ng75e5gQ

Very illuminating lecture on Putin from 2018.

It may sound like he's "blaming America".  But he makes a very convincing argument.

Quote

It may seem to you that I'm blaming the United States.  I don't want the word "blame" used.  It was a mistaken political decision.

I believe what he's getting at is that at the time, the decision could have gone either way.  And someone had to make a decision.  Someone did (actually several someones over time).  It was the wrong decision.

I'd long held the belief that we should not be putting our G.I.s in harms way for another country unless there was a substantial national interest for the US.  I didn't believe in most of the wars since the dissolution of the Soviet Union.  I was not for Clinton's wars.  I was not for either Bush war.  I was not for Obama extending Bush's war.

But the idea that Russia began an unprovoked war against a country that was completely unprepared for it made me question my position. 

  • When I learned of our history of on-again/off-again support of Ukraine, I questioned my position.
  • When I found out that they were vulnerable mostly because of promises (no treaty) made by the US, I questioned my position.
  • When I learned of the broken promises to Russia by the US, I felt like "we broke it, we bought it."

I was very happy that Trump was actually reducing our forces in Afghanistan.  I was happy that he was able to keep us out of an actual war with Iran.  I was happy to learn that he was trying to find the balance of helping Ukraine without putting out G.I.s in harm's way. 

I was split on Biden.  

  • He stopped the materiel (yes, that is spelled correctly) assistance to Ukraine. That was bad.
  • He refused to put our troops in harm's way. That was good.

Now... I'm throwing my hands up in the air and thinking...

Quote

Naturally, the common people do not want war...it is the leaders of the country that make the policy.  And it is always a simple matter to drag the people along -- whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.  Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders... All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.

It works the same in any country.

Edited by Carborendum
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I cannot believe how weak and afraid NATO is coming across! I'm disgusted at the constant "We condemn...." and Biden's empty words. We certainly didn't mind when Poland wanted to send jets but when it meant we would send them to Ukraine, we decided that it wasn't a good idea after all. We are acting like cowards!!! Seriously?! Russia isn't the issue here, the administration is afraid of China.

 

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Y'all remember what you were thinking and saying in 2008, when Russia did this the first time, but with Georgia?  I guess more to the point, does anyone remember anything about it, or even that it happened?   The first European war of the 21st century?  First time the post-USSR Russia invaded a sovereign nation?  There was some talk about Nato's lack of response then, too.

Granted, it was a quicker and smaller conflict, with only ~80,000 invading troops and less than 400 killed/1600 wounded total, and "only" displaced less than 200,000 people.  And it only took about a week before the ceasefire, because the Russians were able to occupy pretty much everything they wanted with not too much blood.  Ukraine numbers are between 2-4x as large, with the refugee crisis being a lot bigger.

I'm hardly an expert, and I'm sort of wondering why Ukraine has the whole world's attention, while Georgia got basically zilch.  I'm thinking it's at least partially due to Ukraine deciding to fight, while Georgia sort of rolled over.  Not sure how much US politics and media wishes have to do with it, but I do find it interesting that 2008 had us all excited about hope and change, and 2022 is full of inflation and a scary democrat midterm election forecast.  

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1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

I'm sort of wondering why Ukraine has the whole world's attention

We are all children of God.  We may not recall what happened in the pre-mortal existence.  But those that can still perceive the Light of Christ and feel the influence of the Holy Ghost can recognize the Christ-like attributes that we see in the people of Ukraine.  

They are willing to sacrifice their lives for a chance of liberty.

It is obvious that they love their families, and their culture.

They know that they are right, that Putin is wrong, and they are willing to broadcast this truth to the world.

The people of Ukraine are heroic, and we have gone so long without heroes in our own culture... 

I will continue to follow the fight, and support them with my prayers and dollars.  

 

 

It has been heartbreaking to watch the free world declare that we cannot help Ukraine due to our fear of World War III. 

 

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16 hours ago, mikbone said:
18 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

I'm sort of wondering why Ukraine has the whole world's attention

We are all children of God.  We may not recall what happened in the pre-mortal existence.  But those that can still perceive the Light of Christ and feel the influence of the Holy Ghost can recognize the Christ-like attributes that we see in the people of Ukraine.  

They are willing to sacrifice their lives for a chance of liberty.

It is obvious that they love their families, and their culture.

They know that they are right, that Putin is wrong, and they are willing to broadcast this truth to the world.

The people of Ukraine are heroic, and we have gone so long without heroes in our own culture... 

I will continue to follow the fight, and support them with my prayers and dollars.  

 

 

It has been heartbreaking to watch the free world declare that we cannot help Ukraine due to our fear of World War III. 

That's real interesting, but how come you're basically erasing my question?  

Again, my question (with the erased part bolded and underlined)

Quote

 I'm sort of wondering why Ukraine has the whole world's attention, while Georgia got basically zilch.

 So, were the Georgians not children of God?  Can nobody recognize Christ-like attributes in the people of Georgia?  Were they not willing to sacrifice their lives for a chance of liberty?  (Wiki tells me ~250 were, with another ~1400 wounded..)  Did the Georgians not know they were right/Putin was wrong?  Did they not do a good enough job of broadcasting the truth to the world?  Were the Georgians not heroic?  In 2008, had we not been gone so long without heroes in our own culture?  Why were you not willing to follow the fight and support Georgians with your prayers and dollars in 2008?  

Why was it not heartbreaking when the free world declared (via it's silence) that we could not help Georgia?

 

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3 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

 So, were the Georgians not children of God?  Can nobody recognize Christ-like attributes in the people of Georgia?  Were they not willing to sacrifice their lives for a chance of liberty?  (Wiki tells me ~250 were, with another ~1400 wounded..)  Did the Georgians not know they were right/Putin was wrong?  Did they not do a good enough job of broadcasting the truth to the world?  Were the Georgians not heroic?  In 2008, had we not been gone so long without heroes in our own culture?  Why were you not willing to follow the fight and support Georgians with your prayers and dollars in 2008?  

Why was it not heartbreaking when the free world declared (via it's silence) that we could not help Georgia?

I don't know.  Maybe Ukraine is just unbelievably good or lucky with public relations.  To be honest I don't recall the Georgia conflict.  

For example, I work as an orthopedic surgeon.  If I see an innocent young person that is a victim of a motor vehicle accident in the Emergency Room with open fractures, I will happily work all night long to put them back together.  On the other hand, If I have a meth addict show up at 2 AM with a shooter's abscess, I'm not gonna be excited about spending 30 minutes debriding pus.  I live in Northern California.  If that same innocent young person with the MVA or the Meth addict shows up in Idaho, I won't care at all. 

I recently read Night by Elie Wiesel - his recollection of concentration camps during the holocaust.  It is a heartbreaking read.  Not only did the Jews refuse to see and understand what was happening.  Even when they were warned by an eye-witness of the inhumanity of the Nazis, they refused to believe or take action.  They were more comfortable calling the voice of warning a crazy person.  There we no heroes in the narrative.  They continued to hope over and over for some miracle.  Only occasionally would a father sacrifice an extra ration for his son now and then.  But then the sons would abandon their fathers.  In this account, they did not unite as a people and fight.  The people hoped for survival but it was incredibly difficult to find or cheer for a hero.  

We see the Ukrainian people fighting.  The men support the women.  The women take care of the children.  When the children are protected and safe in neighboring countries, the women go back to fight.  They are the runt taking on the biggest bully on the playground and they are winning our hearts if not the battle.  

I and many people around the world are watching the Ukraine conflict with rapt attention.  I don't like bullies. Never have.  If I saw a bully attacking someone in school, I would not stand for it.  I would intervene.  

Many people are praying for Ukraine.  I am as well.  But the Lord has already provided us with the means to assist Ukraine and defeat Putin.  We are just afraid to act.  I find it appalling. 

F4A48C49-21B8-42B8-A87E-849A8F7B35F5.thumb.jpeg.12547f0a891d316e071190bd91ac55b2.jpeg

Be still my heart.

And I’m watching the war on France 24 or Al Jazeera.  I’ve had it with the partisan politics on Fox News and CNN.  As far as I’m concerned both Trump and Biden have been poor choices.  The United States can do better.

Glory to Ukraine!

Edited by mikbone
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